- Sep 2, 2011
- 17,523
- 13,729
- 28,180
I don't think the Giro has a bad parcours overall. It lacks in the mountains stages department, but the ITT is wonderful and there are interesting stages in the first week.
It's surely the best of the pack this year.
Tour and Vuelta haven't changed much from last year. I'll give the edge to the Vuelta since it provided some very good riding in 2012. Maybe it was only because of the riders, or maybe not. I need to see what happens this year.
It's surely the best of the pack this year.
Tour and Vuelta haven't changed much from last year. I'll give the edge to the Vuelta since it provided some very good riding in 2012. Maybe it was only because of the riders, or maybe not. I need to see what happens this year.
- Mar 12, 2010
- 872
- 485
- 11,080
- Jul 27, 2009
- 6,604
- 2,500
- 23,180
May I answer that?
It seems to me that I disagree with most of you, about the parcours a grand tour should have.
We could discuss whether a Tour or Vuelta should've a balanced route (In fact they nearly never have. Look at the TdF's back in the 80's with 6 time trails in it. That's not balanced at all. I doubt Lucho Herra is happy that they made it impossible for him to win a TdF that way). Or whether the route should change from times to times to not always let the best all-rounder win, but once a time trailer like Wiggins, once a climber like Pantani, or even once an uphill sprinter like possibly in this years Vuelta (Hell, there even once was a Vuelta Rudii Altig won. A guy which is mainly remembered as a sprinter today). And I accept that my point-of-view might be totally different than the one of most of yours.
But for me the Giro parcours is just crap with the long time trail in it. Hell, we are talking about the Giro. A giro doesn't have to be balanced at all. It's a climbers race. The giro should be won by guys like Pantani, Simoni, Cunego, Basso, Di Luca, Contador. I never want to see a guy like Denis Mentsjov winning the Giro again, because they include a long time trail especially for Lance Armstrong. That was such a shame, and it was the 100th edition!
Also the giro also isn't about globalization at all. The Giro is Italian. It's the corsa rosa! With mainly Italian competitors, Italian teams that get wildcard invitations and the beautiful, steep and brutal Italian climbs in the Alps as well as in the other parts of the country. This is the special, unique character Zomegnan gave to the Giro. And just that's was the reason why suddenly guys like Contador, Sastre, Schleck, Anton, Evans, Winokurow and even Armstrong in 2009 attempt there. Because it's just a special challenge. And either you try to face that challenge to adapt the Italian lifestyle and conquer Italy like Contador did, or you stay in France because you are afraid that even with as much Epo as possible you would get *** kicked in the dolomites by Gilberto Simon like Big Lance!
You can't compare the Giro to the Tour or Vuelta at all. The Giro is the delicacy for the real beaux! It's like trying to compare espresso with coffee. It looks and taste similar, but it isn't. The espresso has some special character to enjoy to the full. And that's why even the biggest coffee freak once will try to drink a good cup of espresso. But don't try to make the espresso taste like coffee. Don't trike to make the Giro "balanced" as the Tour. Don't try to globalize it. It won't be espresso and it won't be the Giro anymore!
Just my (maybe a bit strange) 2 cents.
It seems to me that I disagree with most of you, about the parcours a grand tour should have.
We could discuss whether a Tour or Vuelta should've a balanced route (In fact they nearly never have. Look at the TdF's back in the 80's with 6 time trails in it. That's not balanced at all. I doubt Lucho Herra is happy that they made it impossible for him to win a TdF that way). Or whether the route should change from times to times to not always let the best all-rounder win, but once a time trailer like Wiggins, once a climber like Pantani, or even once an uphill sprinter like possibly in this years Vuelta (Hell, there even once was a Vuelta Rudii Altig won. A guy which is mainly remembered as a sprinter today). And I accept that my point-of-view might be totally different than the one of most of yours.
But for me the Giro parcours is just crap with the long time trail in it. Hell, we are talking about the Giro. A giro doesn't have to be balanced at all. It's a climbers race. The giro should be won by guys like Pantani, Simoni, Cunego, Basso, Di Luca, Contador. I never want to see a guy like Denis Mentsjov winning the Giro again, because they include a long time trail especially for Lance Armstrong. That was such a shame, and it was the 100th edition!
Also the giro also isn't about globalization at all. The Giro is Italian. It's the corsa rosa! With mainly Italian competitors, Italian teams that get wildcard invitations and the beautiful, steep and brutal Italian climbs in the Alps as well as in the other parts of the country. This is the special, unique character Zomegnan gave to the Giro. And just that's was the reason why suddenly guys like Contador, Sastre, Schleck, Anton, Evans, Winokurow and even Armstrong in 2009 attempt there. Because it's just a special challenge. And either you try to face that challenge to adapt the Italian lifestyle and conquer Italy like Contador did, or you stay in France because you are afraid that even with as much Epo as possible you would get *** kicked in the dolomites by Gilberto Simon like Big Lance!
You can't compare the Giro to the Tour or Vuelta at all. The Giro is the delicacy for the real beaux! It's like trying to compare espresso with coffee. It looks and taste similar, but it isn't. The espresso has some special character to enjoy to the full. And that's why even the biggest coffee freak once will try to drink a good cup of espresso. But don't try to make the espresso taste like coffee. Don't trike to make the Giro "balanced" as the Tour. Don't try to globalize it. It won't be espresso and it won't be the Giro anymore!
Just my (maybe a bit strange) 2 cents.
- Mar 24, 2011
- 10,525
- 1,923
- 25,680
The Giro always had TTs. Its lack of tting is relatively recent. 2009 had a suspiciously long ITT, true, but it's not like before it was all about climbing. Only from 2010 to 2012 was. And, while I agree the old all-italians times were awesome, now Italian riders alone couldn't provide the show they used to offer. That's why globalising is the right thing.
- Jul 27, 2009
- 6,604
- 2,500
- 23,180
But the current talented rage of Colombians/ South Americans could provide together with the Italians and some foreigners And that while they maybe wouldn't be able to ride for the overall in the Tour anytime! And in some way you just have globalized the Giro than by just staying with the unique character Angelo Zomegnan gave to te race! 
But on the other side. If Thibaut Pinot confirms his talent in this years tour or another grand tour I'm excited if we suddenly will get a dramatically increase of mountains and decrease of time trails in the Tour
But on the other side. If Thibaut Pinot confirms his talent in this years tour or another grand tour I'm excited if we suddenly will get a dramatically increase of mountains and decrease of time trails in the Tour
- Dec 27, 2010
- 6,674
- 1
- 0
staubsauger said:But the current talented rage of Colombians/ South Americans could provide together with the Italians and some foreigners And that while they maybe wouldn't be able to ride for the overall in the Tour anytime! And in some way you just have globalized the Giro than by just staying with the unique character Angelo Zomegnan gave to te race!
But on the other side. If Thibaut Pinot confirms his talent in this years tour or another grand tour I'm excited if we suddenly will get a dramatically increase of mountains and decrease of time trails in the Tour
?
2009-2011 routes were hardly heavy on ITTs.
- Jul 27, 2009
- 6,604
- 2,500
- 23,180
will10 said:
Klopt, but on the other side 2009 for example didn't have much climbing either.
I'm just interested if they suddenly will go "Giro style" and design a very mountainous parcours that would suit him as a climber.
But first of all Pinot needs to confirm his talent and improve his level of course.
- Jul 12, 2012
- 8,975
- 591
- 19,080
Giro route looks good, even the Tour route looks much better then last year.
Vuelta yet again doing MTF overkill an its becoming boring already.
Vuelta yet again doing MTF overkill an its becoming boring already.
Descender said:
The stage to Bagneres-de-Bigorre isn't exactly mighty good. A 30 km long og not to diffcult descent to the finish line, and it will certainly end with bunch sprint of 15-20 men.
In addition, Preudhomme's view of innovation and adding new elements to the Tour is doing the same climb twice instead of finding new and more unknown climbs like they have done in the Giro and the Vuelta.
The Tour also have a notable lack of hilly stages. The stages are either dead flat or mountainous. The classic like stages you find in the Giro is almost never used in the Tour.
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,264
- 28,180
I vote "none of the above".
The Tour loses points for garbage Corsica stages, a 130km queen stage, double Alpe d'Huez and too many flat stages, but gains some back for not including the Tourmalet.
The Vuelta loses points for MTF overload, for Peyresourde, for too many repeats, for an anæmic Anglirú stage, but gains some back for not having as many flat stages.
The Giro loses points for Galibier, for doing Stelvio two years running, for high mountain stages so short Unipublic would say they needed to be longer, for blatantly pandering when they admitted to trying to lure Wiggins and trying to make the Giro easier so people could try for the Giro-Tour double, and for a hideous use of the second weekend, but gains some back for Tre Cime, and for including a long time trial even if it's badly placed.
All three lose points for having a TTT.
The Giro and Vuelta gain some points for using some new summits and actually showing some of that creativity that Prudhomme so obviously lacks (especially the Vuelta. It must be hard finding a way to make such a stupefyingly flat stage in Asturias), but lose those same points for wasting our time in France by using the same overused climbs the Tour always uses.
The Tour loses points for garbage Corsica stages, a 130km queen stage, double Alpe d'Huez and too many flat stages, but gains some back for not including the Tourmalet.
The Vuelta loses points for MTF overload, for Peyresourde, for too many repeats, for an anæmic Anglirú stage, but gains some back for not having as many flat stages.
The Giro loses points for Galibier, for doing Stelvio two years running, for high mountain stages so short Unipublic would say they needed to be longer, for blatantly pandering when they admitted to trying to lure Wiggins and trying to make the Giro easier so people could try for the Giro-Tour double, and for a hideous use of the second weekend, but gains some back for Tre Cime, and for including a long time trial even if it's badly placed.
All three lose points for having a TTT.
The Giro and Vuelta gain some points for using some new summits and actually showing some of that creativity that Prudhomme so obviously lacks (especially the Vuelta. It must be hard finding a way to make such a stupefyingly flat stage in Asturias), but lose those same points for wasting our time in France by using the same overused climbs the Tour always uses.
- May 4, 2011
- 4,285
- 783
- 17,680
OlavEH said:
The other mountain stages aren't great either. Pailheres is a great climb, IMO, and I don't care that it's "overused," but they could use it in better ways than the semi-annual Pailheres - Ax-3 borefest.
The Grand Bornand stage ...there's not much to look forward to, as far as GC action is concerned. It's preceded and followed by a stage with a MTF and the stage itself has too much false flat after the Madeleine descent, which doesn't favor breakaways with riders that could shake up GC.
Giro-Vuelta-Tour
The Giro has everything, long TT, hilly stages, couple of sprint stages and some hard mountain stages. Looks promising.
Vuelta with a MTF overload again. It makes sense after last year and I really enjoyed all the fireworks so hopefully something like that again this year.
The Tour has a slightly better route than last year but still doesn't make much sense. Too many sprint stages and lack of hard, hilly stages. And the decisive mountain stages are not that good designed, especially the Grand Bornand and Semnoz stages.
The Giro has everything, long TT, hilly stages, couple of sprint stages and some hard mountain stages. Looks promising.
Vuelta with a MTF overload again. It makes sense after last year and I really enjoyed all the fireworks so hopefully something like that again this year.
The Tour has a slightly better route than last year but still doesn't make much sense. Too many sprint stages and lack of hard, hilly stages. And the decisive mountain stages are not that good designed, especially the Grand Bornand and Semnoz stages.
TRENDING THREADS
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s RR, September 28- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 2K
-
Il Lombardia 2025, monument, October 11- Started by Krzysztof_O
- Replies: 792
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 35K
-
European Championship 2025: Men’s RR, October 5- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 854
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 40K
-
Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread- Started by RedheadDane
- Replies: 13K
-
World Championship 2025: Men’s ITT, September 21- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 942
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram