Which male rider will dominate in 2013?

[maltiv]

Guys, it's simple. Belgians aren't great at time trials, that's why they're boring and unimportant.

Fixed.

El_pistelero has really gone overboard on the madness on this one, to say that a TT win is less prestigious than a road win because there are less tactics involved is so absurd that I'm almost convinced he must be trolling.

 

[El Pistolero]

Fixed.

El_pistelero has really gone overboard on the madness on this one, to say that a TT win is less prestigious than a road win because there are less tactics involved is so absurd that I'm almost convinced he must be trolling.

You're kidding right?

Even CQranking, which was based on a real UCI scoring system, gives 400 points for the WC road race and only 250 for the time trial.

Trolling? I thought everyone knew road races are the main thing in this sport. There's not a single cyclist out there that would rather win a WC time trial than a WC Road Race. Why is saying such a thing all of a sudden trolling? It's my honest and blunt opinion.

Didn't Boonen once say that he was gonna try and win TT's?

I'm not claiming Boonen will win the WC road race or time trial in 2013 am I? What does he got to do with this expect you trying to troll? Don't try and change topics here buddy. Maltiv's the one claiming Cancellara will dominate the entire season and win climbing races left and right. I'm merely pointing out he hasn't won a road race after April since 2008, so such domination is doubtful unless he gets back to Luigi Cecchini.

 

[burning]

Lets imagine that Cancellara become a better Voeckler in 2013

He would probably say breakaway wins are boring and unimportant as well

Edit: Btw, you were hyping the WC TTT win because Boonen said it was the biggest win of this year. I guess that you will say TTT's are the most important race (but TT has no meaning though)

 

[El Pistolero]

Lets imagine that Cancellara become a better Voeckler in 2013

He would probably say breakaway wins are boring and unimportant as well

Yeah, what's better winning from a breakaway of second tier riders or beating the best there are in a direct battle?

But you're right, it would be just because of Cancellara when I say that.

So does this mean Voeckler is a better climber than Froome?

 

[burning]

Yeah, what's better winning from a breakaway of second tier riders or beating the best there are in a direct battle?

But you're right, it would be just because of Cancellara when I say that.

So does this mean Voeckler is a better climber than Froome?

So, pretty much every race is useless unless someone like Contador wins? Voeckler is the best breakaway rider since 2-3 years and he deserves quite a lot of respect imo and he has more wins than Froome in 2012, even though Froome is 10 times better than him

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

So, pretty much every race is useless unless someone like Contador wins? Voeckler is the best breakaway rider since 2-3 years and he deserves quite a lot of respect imo

Yes, like climbing and sprinting is skills, so is what you need to get into the right breakaways (especialy someone like Voeckler that does it time and time again) and win them

 

[El Pistolero]

So, pretty much every race is useless unless someone like Contador wins? Voeckler is the best breakaway rider since 2-3 years and he deserves quite a lot of respect imo and he has more wins than Froome even though Froome is 10 times better than him

Uh, where am I calling it useless? Better to win than not win. But if you ask me what is more prestigious: a breakaway win or a win from the favorites group... I'll respond with the latter answer.

Lets imagine that Cancellara become a better Voeckler in 2013

He would probably say breakaway wins are boring and unimportant as well

Edit: Btw, you were hyping the WC TTT win because Boonen said it was the biggest win of this year. I guess that you will say TTT's are the most important race (but TT has no meaning though)

Actually, I said it was the least important World Championship. I said Boonen considered it his big win, his words, not mine.

 

[burning]

Actually, I said it was the least important World Championship. I said Boonen considered it his big win, his words, not mine.

Well, sorry about that then, I remembered that you were hyping his win, guess I was wrong

Btw, I think both ways are equal, no one says O'Grady or Van Summeren won PR from a breakaway, they won the biggest Monument and that's the only thing matters

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, sorry about that then, I remembered that you were hyping his win, guess I was wrong

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1093694&postcount=21

Here's my post.

Btw, I think both ways are equal, no one says O'Grady or Van Summeren won PR from a breakaway, they won the biggest Monument and that's the only thing matters

Uh, if you'd make a poll on this forum asking who's P-R win was the best: Cancellara or Vansummeren I'm pretty sure the vast majority would vote for Cancellara.

It's harder to win a race when you're one of the big favorites because everyone marks you. Vansummeren on the other hand has much more freedom during Roubaix.

 

[maltiv]

You're kidding right?

Even CQranking, which was based on a real UCI scoring system, gives 400 points for the WC road race and only 250 for the time trial.

Trolling? I thought everyone knew road races are the main thing in this sport. There's not a single cyclist out there that would rather win a WC time trial than a WC Road Race. Why is saying such a thing all of a sudden trolling? It's my honest and blunt opinion. .

Well that's true, but it seemed as if you were talking about TT's in general, not just the WC. Winning an ITT in TDF is much more prestigious than to win a road stage, and I'm sure most people agree. Almost any rider can win a road stage with the right amount of luck...

However, I do think Cancellara should've won far more road races in his career. But since he's neither a sprinter nor a climber the only realistic chance of doing so in a GT is to get into the right breakaway, which he for one reason or another hasn't seemed to bother attempting the last couple of years.

 

[burning]

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1093694&postcount=21

Here's my post.


Uh, if you'd make a poll on this forum asking who's P-R win was the best: Cancellara or Vansummeren I'm pretty sure the vast majority would vote for Cancellara.

Well, for me Nuyens' RVV win was better than some guy destroying everyone. Everyone have different tastes I guess

 

[will10]

Well that's true, but it seemed as if you were talking about TT's in general, not just the WC. Winning an ITT in TDF is much more prestigious than to win a road stage, and I'm sure most people agree. Almost any rider can win a road stage with the right amount of luck...

I think we should have a poll on this question - I think 90% would say the opposite is true.

 

[El Pistolero]

Well that's true, but it seemed as if you were talking about TT's in general, not just the WC. Winning an ITT in TDF is much more prestigious than to win a road stage, and I'm sure most people agree. Almost any rider can win a road stage with the right amount of luck...

However, I do think Cancellara should've won far more road races in his career. But since he's neither a sprinter nor a climber the only realistic chance of doing so in a GT is to get into the right breakaway, which he for one reason or another hasn't seemed to bother attempting the last couple of years.

Out of Cancellara's 9 GT stage wins six of them were prologues/short time trials.

He also won a 52km time trial in the Tour once and a 30km time trial in the Vuelta(still short if you ask me). This might just be my opinion, but the longer the time trial the more prestigious the win is. I find prologues even worse than flat Tour stages that end in bunch sprints. Especially because it automatically gives the yellow jersey to who ever wins it for a whole week. When there were still bonus seconds to earn at least there was some excitement. Oh, 2007...

There's one stage missing you say?

Yeah, his best stage win in a GT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJNLMYpr2TM

Bam, that's how you defend a yellow jersey.

Ps: Maltiv, I suggest you watch the Tour de Suisse 2008 and you'll see some of my favorite cycling moments.

 

[Richeypen]

I think we should have a poll on this question - I think 90% would say the opposite is true.

Depends on the stage. A flat sprint stage defo ranks below an ITT,ventoux, alpe d'huez etc are obviously a completely different matter

 

[maltiv]

I think we should have a poll on this question - I think 90% would say the opposite is true.

Seriously? All kind of random riders win road stages. Sometimes the breakaway is basically given the victory by the peloton and the winner isn't decided by strength at all, rather by who attacks at the right moment. Take Millar's victory in TDF this year for example...a small breakaway was given the stage by the peloton and due to no attacks whatsoever from said breakaway all Millar had to do was to outsprint some of the worst sprinters in the peloton.

 

[Netserk]

Seriously? All kind of random riders win road stages. Sometimes the breakaway is basically given the victory by the peloton and the winner isn't decided by strength at all, rather by who attacks at the right moment. Take Millar's victory in TDF this year for example...a small breakaway was given the stage by the peloton and due to no attacks whatsoever from said breakaway all Millar had to do was to outsprint some of the worst sprinters in the peloton.

I'd rank a victory won by tactics and (some) strength more prestigious (ex Millar), than when the strongest rider is in the best possible position and grabs an easy win (ex Cavendish on Champs-Élysées the year Renshaw got 2nd)

 

[theyoungest]

Seriously? All kind of random riders win road stages. Sometimes the breakaway is basically given the victory by the peloton and the winner isn't decided by strength at all, rather by who attacks at the right moment. Take Millar's victory in TDF this year for example...a small breakaway was given the stage by the peloton and due to no attacks whatsoever from said breakaway all Millar had to do was to outsprint some of the worst sprinters in the peloton.

What did you think about EBH's stage win from a breakaway last year?

Every stage won by a breakaway is, in essence, a gift by the peloton. That doesn't make it less prestigious.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Every stage won by a breakaway is, in essence, a gift by the peloton. That doesn't make it less prestigious.

partly disagree. In cases where the peloton (or DSs) have agreed to let a small group of unimportant riders get away very early in the day, I think a stage win is almost worthless (competition wise). Granted this happens very rarely in TdF, but often in other stage races. Very bad for the sport too.

 

[maltiv]

What did you think about EBH's stage win from a breakaway last year?

Every stage won by a breakaway is, in essence, a gift by the peloton. That doesn't make it less prestigious.

It was still a decent win due to three factors: 1) The peloton was partly chasing, the breakaway could never chill completely. 2) It was a huge breakaway involving lots of good riders, e.g Chavanel and Mollema 3) He won by being the strongest rider in the breakaway, not by being lucky.

But of course, had he done that attack from the peloton and held of it would've been far more epic. Anyway, my point isn't that every breakaway win isn't prestigious, it's just that they're sometimes kinda random, which TT's are not. I doubt that most people consider Fedrigo's or Millar's victories from this year's TDF as particularly impressive.

 

[will10]

Seriously? All kind of random riders win road stages. Sometimes the breakaway is basically given the victory by the peloton and the winner isn't decided by strength at all, rather by who attacks at the right moment. Take Millar's victory in TDF this year for example...a small breakaway was given the stage by the peloton and due to no attacks whatsoever from said breakaway all Millar had to do was to outsprint some of the worst sprinters in the peloton.

You don't win a GT stage at random, I'm sorry but you are way wide of the mark with that assertion.

Millar was strong enough to win and was the smartest guy in the break. I accept you may not see that as impressive (I doubt you even watched the stage - are you sure there were no attacks in that break? Funny that it came to a sprint-á-deux from a group of five, considering there were no attacks, yeah? Are you sure Millar didn't mark the moves that mattered?) but to mark it down as a random occurrence is doing stage hunters like Voeckler or Chavanel a disservice.

Actually, considering how "random" a breakaway win apparently is, isn't it odd how often Voeckler, Fedrigo, Moncoutie, Luis Leon Sanchez, Lastras win GT stages, from a break? Amazing how lucky Virenque and Jaja got through their careers too. Oh and isn't it odd that Hushovd was lucky enough to win two Tour stages last year, you know, with it being such a random occurrence?

 

[burning]

You don't win a GT stage at random, I'm sorry but you are way wide of the mark with that assertion.

Millar was strong enough to win and was the smartest guy in the break. I accept you may not see that as impressive (I doubt you even watched the stage - are you sure there were no attacks in that break? Funny that it came to a sprint-á-deux from a group of five, considering there were no attacks, yeah? Are you sure Millar didn't mark the moves that mattered?) but to mark it down as a random occurrence is doing stage hunters like Voeckler or Chavanel a disservice.

Actually, considering how "random" a breakaway win apparently is, isn't it odd how often Voeckler, Fedrigo, Moncoutie, Luis Leon Sanchez, Lastras win GT stages, from a break? Amazing how lucky Virenque and Jaja got through their careers too. Oh and isn't it odd that Hushovd was lucky enough to win two Tour stages last year, you know, with it being such a random occurrence?

Hushovd's win at Gap was very impressive, It took quite a lot of strength and smarts to get into breakaway (Flecha attacked 16 times in that stage and couldn't get into correct move)

 

[theyoungest]

You don't win a GT stage at random, I'm sorry but you are way wide of the mark with that assertion.

Millar was strong enough to win and was the smartest guy in the break. I accept you may not see that as impressive (I doubt you even watched the stage - are you sure there were no attacks in that break? Funny that it came to a sprint-á-deux from a group of five, considering there were no attacks, yeah? Are you sure Millar didn't mark the moves that mattered?) but to mark it down as a random occurrence is doing stage hunters like Voeckler or Chavanel a disservice.

Actually, considering how "random" a breakaway win apparently is, isn't it odd how often Voeckler, Fedrigo, Moncoutie, Luis Leon Sanchez, Lastras win GT stages, from a break? Amazing how lucky Virenque and Jaja got through their careers too. Oh and isn't it odd that Hushovd was lucky enough to win two Tour stages last year, you know, with it being such a random occurrence?

Nail on the head. Stage hunting is a specialty, certainly in the Tour de France. Look at a guy like Devenyns, for instance. He tries and tries, but he can't get the damn win. Same goes for Hoogerland.

Whereas Luis Leon and Voeckler, if they make the breakaway they probably have a one in three chance of winning.

 

[El Pistolero]

Nail on the head. Stage hunting is a specialty, certainly in the Tour de France. Look at a guy like Devenyns, for instance. He tries and tries, but he can't get the damn win. Same goes for Hoogerland.

Whereas Luis Leon and Voeckler, if they make the breakaway they probably have a one in three chance of winning.

That's because they're better cyclists than Devenys and Hoogerland.

Luis Leon Sanchez has won Paris-Nice, and not from a break. He also has 2 wins already in the Clasica San Sebastian. In one of them beating Vinokourov.

It's easy to be smart when you have the legs. As for Voeckler, he often does the least amount of work in a breakaway and then wins. Although last 2 years he has improved incredibly.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

That's because they're better cyclists than Devenys and Hoogerland.

Luis Leon Sanchez has won Paris-Nice, and not from a break. He also has 2 wins already in the Clasica San Sebastian. In one of them beating Vinokourov.

It's easy to be smart when you have the legs. As for Voeckler, he often does the least amount of work in a breakaway and then wins. Although last 2 years he has improved incredibly.

pure luck.
Apart from this statement, I have nothing to bring to the discusion

 

[will10]

That's because they're better cyclists than Devenys and Hoogerland.

Luis Leon Sanchez has won Paris-Nice, and not from a break. He also has 2 wins already in the Clasica San Sebastian. In one of them beating Vinokourov.

It's easy to be smart when you have the legs. As for Voeckler, he often does the least amount of work in a breakaway and then wins. Although last 2 years he has improved incredibly.

Didn't you get the memo Pisti? Voeckler and Sanchez are lucky, random riders.