Which races should be in the World Tour?

[Kvinto]

Obviously.

But some of us were starting a plea to bring the World Cup back. The World Tour is a lousy 'replacement'.

Just saying that a year long competition can be very prestigious, something you were apparently contesting.

i was contesting the World Tour which is the dead competition but if your point is to bring back the World Cup then i fully agree

 

[boomcie]

i was contesting the World Tour which is the dead competition but if your point is to bring back the World Cup then i fully agree

Agreement reached.

 

[Cult Classics]

So if the world cup came back (hypothetically), let's assume the 9 races that were on it in the final year are still in it. Zurich is now dead. What would you replace it with?

- Something outside Europe, e.g. Montreal
- Something European and world tour, e.g. Plouay
- Revive a struggling oldie by elevating it, e.g. Paris-Brussels
- Move something from elsewhere on the calendar to fill an Autumn slot, e.g. Strade Bianche
- Make a new race somewhere


Personally I'd go Canada or Paris-Brussels.

 

[boomcie]

So if the world cup came back (hypothetically), let's assume the 9 races that were on it in the final year are still in it. Zurich is now dead. What would you replace it with?

Awesome scenario but you should frame it better.

In a post-apocalyptic world, an evil organization, "The World Tour", has seized power.

9 survivors of the "World Cup slaughter" are trying to revolt from within the organization.
While they lost one of their beloved comrades, they are now looking for a new member. But nothing is as it seems. Will they find the perfect candidate and revive the once so mighty World Cup?


Cycling News Studio's presents: Bringing Home the Cup

Starring Dekker_Tifosi as Züri-Metzgete

 

[Matthijs]

it's simple: the week-long stage races are just very much overrated in the current system. Also, stages are underrated (stage win in a WT is almost nothing). Actually most cyclingfans do see a win in a weeklong stage something like 2 stages, while the difference in WT points is something to 100:6 i think.

 

[Fetisoff]

Woah... you know Catalunya is the 3rd oldest stage race there is, after the Tour and Giro? Still gets a decent field too, Contador winning it this year.

Paris-Brussels and Paris - Tours, for example, are pretty damn old too, dating back to 1890s. So if this is the criteria we are going to use, why do they not belong in the world tour, and Catalunya does?

 

[Fus087]

it's simple: the week-long stage races are just very much overrated in the current system. Also, stages are underrated (stage win in a WT is almost nothing). Actually most cyclingfans do see a win in a weeklong stage something like 2 stages, while the difference in WT points is something to 100:6 i think.

I fully agree.
To illustrate, ask yourself the question who had a better Paris-Nice:
Thomas Voeckler or Rein Taaramäe?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Utah was probably the best non-European stage race this year, certainly of ones we got to see.

Personally, I don't think there should be a World Tour. There are too many worthy races to include every race, and it just results in the artificial inflation of unworthy races (Eneco, Beijing, Plouay) at the expense of the fields of some storied and historic races (Paris-Bruxelles, Portugal, Belgium).

As long as being in the World Tour is a golden egg for globalisation, and races can buy their way to the top with payola, then it's never going to be a fair representation of cycling, because too many vested interests (and too many races which are not challenging or varied enough) will fill the calendar, and strangle all outside.

 

[Cult Classics]

Paris-Brussels and Paris - Tours, for example, are pretty damn old too, dating back to 1890s. So if this is the criteria we are going to use, why do they not belong in the world tour, and Catalunya does?

Damn straight, get them back in. See Paris-Tours thread started by me.

 

[Cult Classics]

I fully agree.
To illustrate, ask yourself the question who had a better Paris-Nice:
Thomas Voeckler or Rein Taaramäe?

Exactly. How often do you see riders near the top of the ProTour/World Tour rankings who haven't actually won much in a season. A 3rd place in this week-long stage race, a 2nd place in that week-long stage race (usually without winning any stages either). Or in the case of Levi Leipheimer, perhaps my least favourite of all riders, a first place despite not winning any road stages or doing much. I guess evaluating stages is hard though... I mean say a Dauphiné stage up the Ventoux everyone will pay attention to the winner. Whereas a less interesting stage nobody will remember who won. They should reward people who get to put their arms up in the air at the end of the day and give less to people who get 5th, 6th and 7th placings by following wheels and generally being anonymous

 

[Fetisoff]

Damn straight, get them back in. See Paris-Tours thread started by me.

Yeah, I've seen the thread, hence that was one of the two races I've mentioned (the reason I've mentioned Paris-Brussels as the other one was because it's also got history, and more importantly Denis Galimzyanov won it this year ).

There are a plenty other races that should be included too. Portugal, Utah... Burgos always delivers the goods.

Maybe have the UCI's CQ-like "sporting criteria" as the official ranking, i.e. include all the .HC and .1 races in the World Tour, and just rank them differently. This way for a race like a Beijing, you can have it as a .HC World tour race. This way it is still a "World Tour", however ranked lower on points than a Dauphine Libere of Paris-Nice.

 

[AussieGoddess]

see I quite like the world tour. I think its a great idea to promote cycling in new areas by making races that the elite will try and win.

If it weren't for being world tour, no one would go to the Tour Down Under, and cycling in Australia wouldnt be as developed as it is getting. And certainly many of the teams in the Tour of Beijing have sent a better quality of rider than they would have if not for the hunt for points. So we as fans get to see better racing .....

I do think though, that the points for each race are vastly, incredibly, unbeleivably ..... waaaaaayyyyyy wrong ...... but again, they are trying to attract quality fields to these races in order to grow the sport.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Utah was probably the best non-European stage race this year, certainly of ones we got to see.

Personally, I don't think there should be a World Tour. There are too many worthy races to include every race, and it just results in the artificial inflation of unworthy races (Eneco, Beijing, Plouay) at the expense of the fields of some storied and historic races (Paris-Bruxelles, Portugal, Belgium).

As long as being in the World Tour is a golden egg for globalisation, and races can buy their way to the top with payola, then it's never going to be a fair representation of cycling, because too many vested interests (and too many races which are not challenging or varied enough) will fill the calendar, and strangle all outside.

agree.

If we must have a wt i'd rather minimum.

MSR
RVV
PR
AGR
LBL
CSS
Paris-Tours
Maybe one of the Canadian races
GdL

Then stage races:
PN
TA
Basque
CdD
Suisse

and a couple more maybe.

 

[PCutter]

So in summary, the World Tour shouldn't leave Belgium, France, Italy and Spain. Maybe not going to live up to its name then.

 

[LukeSchmid]

If you didn't notice it my suggestion is to bring back the old World Cup.

The old world cup is pre my following cycling seriously so no I did not notice what you were doing. I am not against the idea of a 1 day race series, just it would be quite different to one including stage races. It would be hard to get the points balance right between 1 day races and stage races.

 

[bicing]

Tour Down Under
Tour de San Luis
Tropicale Amissa Bongo
Tour de Langkawi
Tour of Oman
Tour of Qatar
Tour de Mumbai I and II
GP of Soshi
Tour of California
Vuelta a Colombia
Philadelphia International Championship
Tour de Pologne
GP Quebec, GP Montreal
Tour of Beijing
Japan Cup

A truly World Tour. A competition not restricted for the elite and the best teams, but for the up and coming star riders. Those riders and teams who wish to make a name for themselves and show that they have what it takes to join the superteams and participate in the monuments and grand tours. The WorldTour does not put itself under the pressure of comprising the best races or the best riders, its objective is to showcase a high level of professional cycling all around the world and to develop the sport's grassroots level.

WorldTour does not discriminate on the basis of team levels or riders, it is open to all teams who wish to participate and commit. To encourage riders and teams to strive in the WorldTour competition rankings, performance-based travel subsidies and auto-invitations to future WorldTour races will be handed out. Win a stage or the overall in Qatar, receive $5,000 towards the travel costs to get to your next race: Mumbai, California or Colombia. In addition to this, a travel cost sharing system will be applied to increase accessibility for teams. A further incentive is that the winning team receives automatic invitation to monuments and Grand Tours.

WorldTour's calendar is truly global, with races from all regions of the world. New regions and new races are welcome to apply, as the calendar is reviewed annually. Maybe Utah becomes better than California? We can change that. Maybe Tobago Cycling Classic becomes good enough to join, and represent the Caribbean region. We can include them. The inclusiveness of the WorldTour encourages race organisers and national cycling federations to step up, giving them a goal to increase the profile of the sport in their country. By giving each region a chance at hosting a WorldTour race, it builds capacity of the trainers, mechanics, teams, riders, organisers, federations.

WorldTour races will be a global contested competition. Successful teams in previous races will be rewarded with subsidies to future races to ensure continuity and commitment. A travel cost sharing system will also be implemented to support teams in the inevitably expensive travel costs of racing around the world. A proportion of teams in the race will comprise of regional teams, similar to the existing system which saw Gobernacion Colombia team get involved in Utah and Colorado.

Finally, the sport of cycling has a truly global tour, and the opportunity to attract truly global companies. Teams who commit to the WorldTour have sponsors who care deeply about growth in emerging markets and are a model of fast growth and innovation. Races will receive media coverage from around the world, as every race should feature riders/teams from their region. The WorldTour itself will have a sponsor, a company who wishes to be seen as the #1 company in the world who represents fast growth, innovation and with a strong hold in emerging markets. Companies like Tata might fit here.

... and now I lost my train of thought...

 

[Cult Classics]

And now apparently a week-long stage race in Russia will be included, with transfers of 600-1300km between stages. Had to check my calendar see if it was April 1.

Whoever listed all the newish/non traditional races for a world tour calendar is probably right. Take the important races out of it and let the UCI keep its travelling circus separately

 

[Dutchsmurf]

see I quite like the world tour. I think its a great idea to promote cycling in new areas by making races that the elite will try and win.

If it weren't for being world tour, no one would go to the Tour Down Under, and cycling in Australia wouldnt be as developed as it is getting. And certainly many of the teams in the Tour of Beijing have sent a better quality of rider than they would have if not for the hunt for points. So we as fans get to see better racing .....

I do think though, that the points for each race are vastly, incredibly, unbeleivably ..... waaaaaayyyyyy wrong ...... but again, they are trying to attract quality fields to these races in order to grow the sport.

I think that has more to do with Australian riders getting success than with the TDU. It is quite a common thing to see people take up a sport because a fellow countryman is successful in it, even if there aren't any major events in the country.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

And now apparently a week-long stage race in Russia will be included, with transfers of 600-1300km between stages. Had to check my calendar see if it was April 1.

Whoever listed all the newish/non traditional races for a world tour calendar is probably right. Take the important races out of it and let the UCI keep its travelling circus separately

What's more, the terrain means that this is going to be another festival of mediocrity and yet another race consisting primarily of flat stages, then an intermediate stage near the end (if they don't have an MTF at the top of Mount Akhun to finish, this race is worthless). The World Tour is increasingly monotonous as more and more races have the same characteristics.

 

[El Pistolero]

Awesome scenario but you should frame it better.

In a post-apocalyptic world, an evil organization, "The World Tour", has seized power.

9 survivors of the "World Cup slaughter" are trying to revolt from within the organization.
While they lost one of their beloved comrades, they are now looking for a new member. But nothing is as it seems. Will they find the perfect candidate and revive the once so mighty World Cup?


Cycling News Studio's presents: Bringing Home the Cup

Starring Dekker_Tifosi as Züri-Metzgete

In a time of ancient races, race organizers, and UCI officials,
A sport in turmoil cried out for a solution.
The solution was the World cup, a mighty season long competition forged in the heat of battle.
The power.
The passion.
The danger.
Its glory will change the world.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

In a time of ancient races, race organizers, and UCI officials,
A sport in turmoil cried out for a solution.
The solution was the World cup, a mighty season long competition forged in the heat of battle.
The power.
The passion.
The danger.
Its glory will change the world.

And for that glory, some men would do anything!

 

[auscyclefan94]

In a time of ancient races, race organizers, and UCI officials,
A sport in turmoil cried out for a solution.
The solution was the World cup, a mighty season long competition forged in the heat of battle.
The power.
The passion.
The danger.
Its glory will change the world.

How was the World Cup different to the World Tour? They are both a series of races that riders/teams compete for points.

 

[ingsve]

How was the World Cup different to the World Tour? They are both a series of races that riders/teams compete for points.

Well, the difference was that people cared about it. Classics riders built their season around the goal of winning the World Cup. No rider goes into a season today even thinking about the overall World Tour ranking. It has no significance in todays peloton.

 

[El Pistolero]

How was the World Cup different to the World Tour? They are both a series of races that riders/teams compete for points.

 

[ksmith]

I guess the ultimate question is what do we want the world tour to be?
I mean right now it's sort of stuck in between, and seems to be more of a political tool, than a cycling competition. I mean, even the UCI sporting criteria is not based on the world tour points, but rather their own "CQ-like" scoring system.

If we want the World Tour Champion to be the true champion of the world, well then you have to get rid of a lot of European races that are currently on it (sorry, Catalunya, Vattenfals etc), keep the Canadian races, maybe include a US stage race, and at least one South American stage race.

I mean, there's no simple answer. Maybe ditch the world tour completely and have separate competitions for 1-day races, have Grand Tours as their own entities, and a separate competition for 1 week races....

Seperate competitions, if the rider is in that competition he has to compete in the races say a minimum of say 85% So it will be apples to apples,oranges to oranges. Races in that competition worth the same points.