Which rider is underrated/overrated?

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It's impossible to compare riders by using time differences from different races (Tour and Vuelta) and from mulitiple different years. It becomes very subjective because conditions are never the same. The Tour and the Vuelta mountain stages can't be compared. It doesn't mean much to say that Nibbes beat Valverde at the Tour by more than AC and Froome did in the Vuelta.

Everyone knows that I'm the expert in this discussion so I'll settle it all once and for all. :p In a balanced GT with all at top form and no crashes happening, the order right now goes Froome/AC then Nibbes. Moving along to the next underrated rider....:)
 
Nibali is underrated.


The reason IMO is that he didn't improve enormously from one season to the next, but improved steadily until he arrived where he is now.
Turned pro young, and was regarded as a huge talent. First Giro as nr 3 or 4 at Liquigas, did well enough, but compared to A. Schleck of course nothing. Improved in 08, 09. And after 09 he was still regarded as clearly inferior to his teammate Kreuziger. Winner of the TdS 08, but in 09 behind him in the TdF, and until Nibali crashed in the stage to Prato Nevoso in 08 (a crash which clearly weakened him in the days to come, plus he had already done the Giro) he was ahead of Kreuziger too. Before the 2010 season Nibali was actually at least as strong as Kreuziger, at least. IMO slightly stronger. Generally though it was clear, Kreuziger a possible future great, Nibali, ah well, not so bad.... he lacked the flashy win.
Then breakout year in 10, 3rd of the Giro, being the second strongest. While helping the strongest, Basso. Winner of the Vuelta.
2011 clearly a set back, 3rd in the Giro again, but this time weaker than Scarponi and a bad Vuelta. After the Giro 10 you'd have expected Nibali to be clearly better than Scarponi.
2012 the Tour again, got third, the only one who even tried attacking the Sky monster team, before the Tour he wasn't the no 3 favorite, more like 5-6, behind riders like Gesink or even Van den Broeck. Dominated those guy, while having no chance against Wiggins and Froome.
13 we were told he had no chance in hell vs Wiggins at the Giro.. .he won. Then beaten by Horner in the Vuelta.
14 he won the Tour easily after Froome and Contador were out.
So steady improvement at least until 13, not sure if he improved further between 13+14... but somehow that doesn't register with some people, they like to see him as the same guy who won the Vuelta in 2010, he is way stronger than he was then now, or the one who had his only "non improvement season" in 2011.

Similar situation IMO with Uran. Pro very young, started of well actually, but didn't immediately win a big race. Stagnated, then finally found his GT legs in 2011, pretty good TdF, got weaker at the end. Next year the Giro 7th, and white jersey (even though Henao actually looked stronger overall), 2013 second in the Giro, light years from Nibali, but still second. 2014 second to Quintana... and here... pay attention in the downhill to the Stelvio and he might actually have beaten Quintana. So Uran 2014 was pretty damn close to Quintana, still, Quintana will be in everybodies top 4 GT riders, Uran way back. Quintana at this point is better, but Uran is not that far off. But.. like Nibali he didn't simply explode one year and then stay there, but improves a bit every year. Which seems to throw people off. Uran IMO will be a harder opponent for Contador at the Giro than Aru will be... but suspect most will see it differently. Because Aru exploded in 14 (to be behind Uran nota bene) while Uran 'just' improved.
Same as with Nibali. Now... where does Nibali stand compared to Froome and Contador? Hard, or impossible to say, since in 13+14 there was just one kind of meaningful direct fight... Tirreno 13 vs Froome (Contador had his off year, so not meaningful with regards to him). Froome won the mountain, Nibali the crazy rain stage... in the end not too many conclusions from that one either. Indirect comparisons, pretty meaningless. With Valverde and mountain-TT losses, probably in 2013-2014 was similar in the end. Which doesn't say much because the race was different. What I think? Guess? Froome in the TT is clearly better. While I suspect that by now Nibali is actually slightly better in TT than Contador (Nibali started off as a good TTer, then somehow seemed to get worse, back to pretty good TT from 13 on) Mountains: Froome nr 1.. but he did have worrying weaknesses in 2013 at the end, both Nibali and Contador don't usually. Here probably Froome-Contador-Nibali, but all very close, all within 20" on mountain top arrivals. Take into account some Froome weaknesses, lack of consistency and it's Contador-Nibali-Froome... But all just guess work.. That's why they actually race... and: Riders that don't explode from one year to another but develop slower aren't necessarily worse than the exploders when all is said and done.
 
Aug 23, 2014
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Overrated.. Sagan.

Dude is like the consistent second.

Loses sprints to the big names like Cav, Griepel etc. etc.

No power output like the big names Cancellara, Boonen.

Seriously, he's super consistent at getting sprint points and the green jersey from it, but he's nothing explosive or fantastic, no idea why he's hyped up so much.
 
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nerian said:
Overrated.. Sagan.

Dude is like the consistent second.

Loses sprints to the big names like Cav, Griepel etc. etc.

No power output like the big names Cancellara, Boonen.

Seriously, he's super consistent at getting sprint points and the green jersey from it, but he's nothing explosive or fantastic, no idea why he's hyped up so much.

When did you start following cycling?
 
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nerian said:
Overrated.. Sagan.

Dude is like the consistent second.

Loses sprints to the big names like Cav, Griepel etc. etc.

No power output like the big names Cancellara, Boonen.

Seriously, he's super consistent at getting sprint points and the green jersey from it, but he's nothing explosive or fantastic, no idea why he's hyped up so much.

Sagan had perhaps the most impressive debut season ever, especially considering his age at the time.
 
Aug 23, 2014
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Bushman said:
nerian said:
Overrated.. Sagan.

Dude is like the consistent second.

Loses sprints to the big names like Cav, Griepel etc. etc.

No power output like the big names Cancellara, Boonen.

Seriously, he's super consistent at getting sprint points and the green jersey from it, but he's nothing explosive or fantastic, no idea why he's hyped up so much.

When did you start following cycling?

around 2011? i still think sagan is overrated.

hyped up to no end, i just dont get it.

they said he was wasted in cannondale, lack of support and tactics, so i dont know, maybe 1-2 years in tinkoff will see him winning classics and whatever.

i also read the secret pro on another site, he mentions that some riders are insanely strong but are not savvy enough, maybe that's what sagan is. i think thats true to a certain extent, no point being the fastest sprinter if you get boxed in.

thats my opinion, i have no other underrated/overrated rider besides sagan.
 
Apr 25, 2014
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Colombian is the unique nationality that is considered as a packet. Most entries refer to individuals, but some refer to the packet of colombian riders, and all those entries refer to them as overrated. It is hard to think that there is not traces of xenophobic thinking here. I can understand, Cycling is the most european of the sports because riders are the knigths of the last two centuries, it should be a big shock to see that the knigth that conquered the snow and the slopes of the Stelvio is a small colombian.

Good luck next time
 
Re: Re:

nerian said:
Bushman said:
nerian said:
Overrated.. Sagan.

Dude is like the consistent second.

Loses sprints to the big names like Cav, Griepel etc. etc.

No power output like the big names Cancellara, Boonen.

Seriously, he's super consistent at getting sprint points and the green jersey from it, but he's nothing explosive or fantastic, no idea why he's hyped up so much.

When did you start following cycling?

around 2011? i still think sagan is overrated.

hyped up to no end, i just dont get it.

they said he was wasted in cannondale, lack of support and tactics, so i dont know, maybe 1-2 years in tinkoff will see him winning classics and whatever.

i also read the secret pro on another site, he mentions that some riders are insanely strong but are not savvy enough, maybe that's what sagan is. i think thats true to a certain extent, no point being the fastest sprinter if you get boxed in.

thats my opinion, i have no other underrated/overrated rider besides sagan.

Well, then you should know why he is hyped so much. He has been pretty bad in 2014 and so far in 2015. But his debut season in 2010 was from another planet and he followed it up in 2011 and 2012. It shouldn't really be a surprise why there is so much hype around him.
 
Feb 23, 2011
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Re: Re:

Bushman said:
nerian said:
Bushman said:
nerian said:
Overrated.. Sagan.

Dude is like the consistent second.

Loses sprints to the big names like Cav, Griepel etc. etc.

No power output like the big names Cancellara, Boonen.

Seriously, he's super consistent at getting sprint points and the green jersey from it, but he's nothing explosive or fantastic, no idea why he's hyped up so much.

When did you start following cycling?

around 2011? i still think sagan is overrated.

hyped up to no end, i just dont get it.

they said he was wasted in cannondale, lack of support and tactics, so i dont know, maybe 1-2 years in tinkoff will see him winning classics and whatever.

i also read the secret pro on another site, he mentions that some riders are insanely strong but are not savvy enough, maybe that's what sagan is. i think thats true to a certain extent, no point being the fastest sprinter if you get boxed in.

thats my opinion, i have no other underrated/overrated rider besides sagan.

Well, then you should know why he is hyped so much. He has been pretty bad in 2014 and so far in 2015. But his debut season in 2010 was from another planet and he followed it up in 2011 and 2012. It shouldn't really be a surprise why there is so much hype around him.

I have to agree with nerian on this one. He came off the bottom of the Poggio on Sunday looking fresh whilst eyeballing his competition. Where did he finish? Nowhere.

Don't get me wrong a good rider but overrated IMHO gets it wrong far more than he gets it right. He will be eclipsed by other far better riders this year.

I have been following cycling since late 80's so I have seen them all come and go.
 
Mar 17, 2015
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Before his sanction, Contodar is worth every penny. But after his sanction, he is nothing special, definitely the most overrated rider in terms of salary and results. Sure he does won two most insignificant GT, and one of them is gifted by the stupid mistake made by JR.
 
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ICEROCK said:
The other overrated is Kittle

Is it considered overrating him when one says that he is the fastest pure sprinter right now? I'm pretty sure that is the only thing that is being said about him right now. Everyone knows he can't get over climbs or any other type of obstacle.
 
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Hugo Koblet said:
How is Kittel overrated? If anything, he's underrated.

Underrated? He is what he is: (one of) The best sprinter(s) when the stage is pan-flat. I think everybody is capable of seeing that. He does not get over hills or mountains, neither is he great at cobbles. Like every sprinter he is also decent at short TT's/Prologues. In what area is he underrated?
 
Over hyped ? Caleb Ewan.

Whilst it's nice that he picked up some stage wins at Langkawi; it's going to be a totally different ball game in any WT races he's sent to. He just hasn't the race legs or the physical maturity ....... and when they "put the hammer down" either going up-hill or on the flat; he's going to be spat out the back of the peleton more often than not.

It's all the learning process that almost all neo-pros have to endure and hopefully he'll be able to adjust. Just see this as being the hard reality of what he will go through this season and potentially next season ....... and those touting him for race/stage wins at WT level are likely to be sorely disappointed.
 
Re: Re:

Akuryo said:
Hugo Koblet said:
How is Kittel overrated? If anything, he's underrated.

Underrated? He is what he is: (one of) The best sprinter(s) when the stage is pan-flat. I think everybody is capable of seeing that. He does not get over hills or mountains, neither is he great at cobbles. Like every sprinter he is also decent at short TT's/Prologues. In what area is he underrated?

You showed exactly why he's underrated when you said "He is what he is: (one of) The best sprinter(s) when the stage is pan-flat". He's not one of the best sprinters. He's by far the best sprinter. Noone is even remotely close.
 
Kittel could easily become a classics rider once he has the green jersey in the bag. He certainly has got the engine for it as he was a pretty good tt'er back in his youth years.

Going for the maglia rosso (or hopefully ciclamino again, soon) would be a first step towards a (back) transformation into a rider who may be able to challenge for La Primavera, Flanders or Paris-Roubaix in future.

That may become Kittels big advantage against the likes of Pettachi, Cav or Cipo once he's losing his peak speed or guys like Coquard/ Bonifazio / Bouhanni etc are catching up!
 
Jun 30, 2014
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staubsauger said:
Kittel could easily become a classics rider once he has the green jersey in the bag. He certainly has got the engine for it as he was a pretty good tt'er back in his youth years.

Going for the maglia rosso (or hopefully ciclamino again, soon) would be a first step towards a (back) transformation into a rider who may be able to challenge for La Primavera, Flanders or Paris-Roubaix in future.

That may become Kittels big advantage against the likes of Pettachi, Cav or Cipo once he's losing his peak speed or guys like Coquard/ Bonifazio / Bouhanni etc are catching up!
Yes, he should have the engine for it. I think he'll be at the top for a long time, guys who rely on a train and raw power instead of their crazy acceleration tend to have a longer careere as a top sprinter, just look at Cipo.
 
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staubsauger said:
Kittel could easily become a classics rider once he has the green jersey in the bag. He certainly has got the engine for it as he was a pretty good tt'er back in his youth years.

Going for the maglia rosso (or hopefully ciclamino again, soon) would be a first step towards a (back) transformation into a rider who may be able to challenge for La Primavera, Flanders or Paris-Roubaix in future.

That may become Kittels big advantage against the likes of Pettachi, Cav or Cipo once he's losing his peak speed or guys like Coquard/ Bonifazio / Bouhanni etc are catching up!

What does tt'ing as a junior have in common with riding +250 km classics though?
 
May 2, 2013
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dirkprovin said:
Over hyped ? Caleb Ewan.

Whilst it's nice that he picked up some stage wins at Langkawi; it's going to be a totally different ball game in any WT races he's sent to. He just hasn't the race legs or the physical maturity ....... and when they "put the hammer down" either going up-hill or on the flat; he's going to be spat out the back of the peleton more often than not.

It's all the learning process that almost all neo-pros have to endure and hopefully he'll be able to adjust. Just see this as being the hard reality of what he will go through this season and potentially next season ....... and those touting him for race/stage wins at WT level are likely to be sorely disappointed.

I would not call him over hyped, the kid is only 20. He was beating the pro's at 17 and he is the body type that hasn't developed earlier than his peers and gave him an unfair advantage at his age.

His riding type at this stage is still unknown, he won't be as quick as Cav or Kittel on the flat but has advantages elsewhere. Also his palmares at world championships for his age are very good compared to the former.

A rider at 20 years of age in an overrated stance is just crap. If you are an Aussie you should look back at the struggles Robbie McEwen had before he won his first tour stage.
 
Mar 27, 2015
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the Nibali is a *** rider. he is very overrated. I do not forget that he won the vuelta because anton fell, Anton was clearly the strongest rider in the vuelta. the physical recovery of Nibali is not anything special, he rode the giro 2011 and the giro 2013 and beyond could not fully recover for vuelta. in 2011 went completely undetected. I also do not forget that the competition was very weak in those gt's. in tour 2014 he was fortunate that contador and Froome fell and then won easily. what makes me most angry is that Nibali entered in history of cycling (won giro, tour and vuelta) and he don´t have quality for that greatness
 
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qwer said:
the Nibali is a *** rider. he is very overrated. I do not forget that he won the vuelta because anton fell, Anton was clearly the strongest rider in the vuelta. the physical recovery of Nibali is not anything special, he rode the giro 2011 and the giro 2013 and beyond could not fully recover for vuelta. in 2011 went completely undetected. I also do not forget that the competition was very weak in those gt's. in tour 2014 he was fortunate that contador and Froome fell and then won easily. what makes me most angry is that Nibali entered in history of cycling (won giro, tour and vuelta) and he don´t have quality for that greatness

Nibali the most humbly rated rider. He won the Vuelta because Anton fell. He won the Tour because Froome and Contador fell. He won T-A against them because the rain fell. He won the the Giro because Wiggins and the snow fell. Luckily, Iglinsky did not fall, or this Nibali guy would have won all 3 GT's and LBL. He can be proud of that podium spot at least. Well deserved.
 
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phanatic said:
qwer said:
the Nibali is a *** rider. he is very overrated. I do not forget that he won the vuelta because anton fell, Anton was clearly the strongest rider in the vuelta. the physical recovery of Nibali is not anything special, he rode the giro 2011 and the giro 2013 and beyond could not fully recover for vuelta. in 2011 went completely undetected. I also do not forget that the competition was very weak in those gt's. in tour 2014 he was fortunate that contador and Froome fell and then won easily. what makes me most angry is that Nibali entered in history of cycling (won giro, tour and vuelta) and he don´t have quality for that greatness

Nibali the most humbly rated rider. He won the Vuelta because Anton fell. He won the Tour because Froome and Contador fell. He won T-A against them because the rain fell. He won the the Giro because Wiggins and the snow fell. Luckily, Iglinsky did not fall, or this Nibali guy would have won all 3 GT's and LBL. He can be proud of that podium spot at least. Well deserved.

Did anyone fall in the Italian nationals? (Favourites that is)