Who gets tossed under the bus?

[Race Radio]

Wonderboy and the Hog have been collecting secrets for years. Riders, Directors, internet posters..... Now that it is hitting the fan who will they toss to the wolves first? They will make an example of someone as a message to the others to shut up.

My money is on a Director and maybe a rider.

 

[Ferminal]

Current, or former?

How about a former rider and a current director (albeit on a different team), that would really cause a stir.

Of course the Hog has tried to throw a contracted rider under a bus before... I heard that didn't work out too well for the old gents club.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2010/dirty-deal

 

[blackcat]

Wonderboy and the Hog have been collecting secrets for years. Riders, Directors, internet posters..... Now that it is hitting the fan who will they toss to the wolves first? They will make an example of someone as a message to the others to shut up.

My money is on a Director and maybe a rider.

will have to be an American, and one that is universally loved.

Big George is the only candidate I see.

 

[this_is_edie]

Chris Carmichael

 

[BroDeal]

will have to be an American, and one that is universally loved.

Big George is the only candidate I see.

Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Tommy D, Vaughters...

But at this stage in the game how do they go about throwing someone under the bus without doing damage to themselves?

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Was farcewrong b1tching about someone speaking to the press regarding protour licence allocation a warning to that someone? Or have I been spending too much time in the clinic?

 

[Ferminal]

Perhaps the other question is, who will they drag down with them?

 

[TexPat]

will have to be an American, and one that is universally loved.

Big George is the only candidate I see.

No way. Not gonna happen to Dirty Dog.

 

[TexPat]

Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Tommy D, Vaughters...

But at this stage in the game how do they go about throwing someone under the bus without doing damage to themselves?

Bingo! We have a winner!
Or a couple of winners, in this case.

 

[MacRoadie]

Unfortunately for the Pharmstrong team, most of those guys can likely now come back with "Yes, I doped and I feel terrible about it. So much so that several months ago I agreed to cooperate with federal investigators and would have come clean publicly but was asked to remain silent in order not to jeopardize that ongoing investigation".

 

[BroDeal]

The people who should be worried are the Tailwind execs whose signatures are on the contracts with the sponsors. Those are the guys who should be making a deal. If not then they will have to claim that they were unaware of the doping. Meanwhile, Bruyneel and Armstrong will have to distance themselves from the fraud by claiming that management was fully aware.

 

[Benotti69]

The people who should be worried are the Tailwind excs whose signatures are on the contracts with the sponsors. Those are the guys who should be making a deal. If not then they will have to claim that they were unaware of the doping. Meanwhile, Bruyneel and Armstrong will have to distance themselves from the fraud by claiming that mangement was fully aware.

this could be the biggest fight to come out of the whole thing, the fight between non cycling management/execs/directors and wonderboy/hog over who is culpable. be great to see them both spend their fortunes trying to bury the other while being dragged down at the same time.

to answer the OP, hard now to see anyone being thrown under the bus as it will only add to the feds case as the person will likely tell all.

i bet all the team bonuses have been paid back to 1999 over the last 6 months and Xmas cards sent to all and sundry who worked for the team with some freebie liestrong shirts, braclets and caps included

 

[blackcat]

they will play hot potato w plausible deniability, someone like Tom Weisel will throw it back at StrongArm

 

[Anonymous]

My moneys on nobody. Lance and Johann will take the fall for the lot. The riders below them will say they were pressured, the directors at tailwind will plead ignorance and say that they knew nothing about cycling and relied on lance and johann to do what was required.

The two that could be dragged down are Weisel and Steve Johnson. Outside of them, everyone will sing like canaries when the feds press them.

 

[frenchfry]

Wonderboy and the Hog have been collecting secrets for years. Riders, Directors, internet posters..... Now that it is hitting the fan who will they toss to the wolves first? They will make an example of someone as a message to the others to shut up.

My money is on a Director and maybe a rider.

I assume you have taken the necessary precautions!

I'm sure the hacking of Betsy's computer wasn't an isolated incident.

 

[thehog]

Duffy!


......

 

[spetsa]

Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Tommy D, Vaughters...



My bet is that the above listed have already thrown all involved with Tailwind under the bus. I doubt there is any love lost between VandeVelde and Armstrong. I can't wait to find out why VDV was excluded from the tour at the last minute one year. Spider bite on the rear end the day before the prolouge was the excuse given. VDV is a great guy. I personally hope to find out he told LA and the Hog to F*** their blood bags.

 

[Granville57]

I could see him trying to damage JV in any way that he could, he never misses and opportunity to snipe at him. He's already proclaimed a certain amount of contempt for their "clean" approach, and compared it, negatively, against HTC's program because HTC wins more (although they have hardly made an impact on the Grand Tour podiums).

But I don't think he'd get any traction there. Z-man, CVV, JV...I think those guys are just dying for this to all come out in the open. Let's be honest, JV already came clean with Kimmage, and to debate otherwise is sheer idiocy. These guys want to talk about it, and I assume they already have to Novitsky. JV was quite clear in regards to the cooperative stance he and everyone on his team would have.

For any skeptics, I would have to think that any testimony from CVV and Big George—especially if they corroborate one another—would be insurmountable. I really thought George did himself a disservice when he lamely stood up for himself against Floyd's initial claims. I now have to wonder if outside pressure was put on him to do so.

Funny how when everything broke out in the open, I never heard LA say, "There was NO doping on USPS. Just go ask Tyler, Christian, Dave Z., Matt White, George and Levi. Go ahead, ask them!"

And what about Levi? He's been awfully quiet through all this. To busy congratulating himself on beating up on the locals at Leadville? He made proud statements upon his return to the clutches of LA and Johan, making the accurate point that he was the only rider to leave the team on good terms and then return. So where does that leave him? He knew full well what he was getting back into, and yet...

I think LA was insanely jealous about the exposure that Slipstream was receiving in his absence, and I think he would do anything he could to tarnish them on his way down. Remember 2008? The media was all about Garmin. LA's return must've cost Vaughter's team at least 70% of the exposure they were getting prior. Ultimately though, I think they'll be standing on opposite sides of the fence, and it may just be a bit lonely on LA's side. And then there's Allen Lim's position in all of this, but that's probably another thread...

 

[Berzin]

Race Radio, I'm not sure I understand your question.

Here are a few of my own that will help me understand-

1) Who could Bruyneel and Armstrong possibly rat out? Weren't they the ones who masterminded the doping program?

2) Will investigators really be all that interested in cutting them slack for exposing those below them on the doping food chain, those who haven't yet given testimony? What about moving laterally and exposing someone like Ferarri, the other doctors involved and the suppliers?

3) Will these two be willing to say "yes, we ran on organized doping program"? If so, those arrows point in many different directions in terms of mutual culpability, but I just don't see that happening. I see both of them fighting until the very end. What sort of deal could they possibly cut with the Feds?

4) The money guys like Weisel-how could he be implicated? Would Armstrong come out and say Weisel was the bagman for the money used to purchase doping? If it's true the team was raising funds for the program by selling off team equipment I don't see where the connection is on this one.

I've read almost all of these threads but I admit to being thoroughly confused as to the whole Weisel/Tailwind Sports connection. I don't expect anyone to give me a Cliff Notes version of it here, but in the larger context I'm sure all will be revealed eventually.

The hardest part is not knowing who gave testimony and where the investigation is going. Apparently Armstrong isn't losing sleep over any of this and even feels that he and Bruyneel revolutionized the way teams run and market themselves. He obviously feels a great amount of pride in what he and the Hog accomplished.

This to me seems very strange indeed. It's almost as if there is a disconnect between what he knows he was involved in and what he wants the world to believe.

 

[BotanyBay]

I assume you have taken the necessary precautions!

I'm sure the hacking of Betsy's computer wasn't an isolated incident.

I heard a couple months back that a computer guy (some VP at LAF?) was providing details to avoid prison time. Has some kind of background in the Marines or AF or some other armed service. I'd imagine with info like that, then they might be considering some kind of evidence tampering or hindering of prosecution charges.

 

[GoGarmin]

Vande Velde, Zabriskie, Tommy D, Vaughters...

But at this stage in the game how do they go about throwing someone under the bus without doing damage to themselves?

Exactly. It's not really possible for team Armstrong to toss guys under the bus without casting further doubt on themselves. And frankly, it's not like it would be crushing for the careers of VdV or Zabriskie if they were found to be dopers. They did it at the time because they had to. They got away from it as soon as they could and found a "clean" team to ride for and are now anti-doping advocates. Everyone knows they did it already, so coming clean about it now isn't going to damage them in significant ways.

 

[BotanyBay]

Any bus-tossing will happen as they get dragged-down. But I don't think it will be very pronounced, as prosecutors will not be terribly interested in underlings or team staff members (unless they were committing serious crimes).

 

[D-Queued]

Who gets thrown under the bus?

Lawyers and advisors. Not very interesting or, even believable, but if anyone gets tossed this would be my guess.

Dave.

 

[Polish]

Don't see Lance tossing any cyclists under the bus - Lance loves cycling lol.
(And don't confuse "tossing under the bus" to self-defensive slapdowns)

However, Lance's recent comments in OZ seem to indicate Lance may toss the American MLB or NFL under the bus holy crap. That takes balls!

With Novitzky's Balco Trial set to begin in 60 days or so, Lance drumming up some anti-dope baseball rhetoric will benefit Geoff greatly. Throw Bonds under the bus maybe? Could backfire for Lance though - Major League Baseball, unlike pro cycling, is a real sport in the USA. May be fan backlash.

But how about the kids? Save the kids? In America, kids play Baseball and Football as a sport. Cycling is the way they arrive to baseball/football practice, but cycling is certainly not a real sport itself here for 99.999% of American kids.

Doping in high school baseball and football happens sadly.
Cycling? Maybe on the road as the hipster's ditch school early....

But there might be backlash also if Lance tries toss football under the bus.
Lance knows better than most that there are more fans in the stands on Fridays and Saturdays watching highschool/college football in TEXAS alone than there are people lining the roads of FRANCE watching the TdF on a Friday or Saturday. Don't Mess with Texas Football yikes.

So who do I wish for Lance to toss under the bus?
Cancer. Toss cancer under the bus.
F cancer fcol.

 

[Race Radio]

I think it would be more like a DS or rider who is active today, who people think is clean, but might not have given up the old ways. Kinda like how many people were surprised with Landis' fingered Alan Lim.

The other big question is who flips first. If it were a race I would say Knaggs and Brewer are neck and neck.