If we allow for alternate history for the 2011 WC route, maybe likewise for misfortune taking away Sagan's chance to win MSR (and to a lesser extent P-R) in 2016.
I really can't see a case for Gilbert 2011 > Sagan 2016.
-
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
I really can't see a case for Gilbert 2011 > Sagan 2016.
Yeah, okay. He did have many wins (also in big races) but lacked secondary results. And he didn't really get any GC results at all.
Those are more realistic for multiple reasons; hence they’ve both been done more recently. Giro/Tour is the big one, and you have to think Pog is the most likely to achieve it since peak Contador.
I agree but it depends on the competition, which is strong (and will remain strong in next few years) i.e. I wouldn't expect Pog (after the Giro in his legs) to beat an in-form Roglic at the Tour. A very careful planning is required i.e. he would probably have to be considerably undertrained at the start of the Giro and to ride himself into form there (but can he win then?). He's never raced a GT double so the hardest double as his first doesn't look likely.
In the same calendar year, yes. At least in CQ's history.
I think Roglič before Liège this year was higher for a rolling score.
Armchair cyclist
Moderator
From 1 Sept to the end of 2010, he scored 730 CQ points: 1 Sept to end of 2011 he scored 829, so his peak score is probably that end of 2011 score of 3180. Pogacar is currently at 3656, which I believe is the highest CQ score since it started its system in 2002 (certainly highest end of year score)
Gilbert's rolling peak was after the 2011 WCRR. Froome's peak was after the 2018 Giro. Sagan's was after the 2017 K-B-K. Roglič's was after this year's FW.
I still feel the ranking is skewed towards GC guys.
If you are the best in a 3-week GC Tour, you will get a lot of points as you compete against the same riders day in day out. Every rider in a GC tour gets worse, but if you're the best, you get less worse.
It's different in 1-day races: There is a lot more going on in terms of racing strategy, and if you are the best in a certain time frame (e.g. the Ardennes classics), you have 3 chances in 2.5 weeks to score points, and each race is against a full peloton with new, fresh riders.
Compare that to a GC rider who gets 4-5 mountain stages, a TT in the end with a reduced (crashed out) and not so fresh peloton, and ofcourse, you get a lot of points for the overall GC.
I don't say or argue that the GC riders don't deserve this, but it is skewed. So in order to score this bizarre amount of points over Sagan / Gilbert, we need a dominant GC rider that just keeps on going and has the tactical insight in winning classics. And that's where we are now with the absolute legendary Tadej Pogacar. Sometimes I feel we aren't giving him enough attention on this forum. Other GC winners would have finished the season already after the Tour or the Olympics, but Pogacar keeps going, even in races that aren't his cup of tea (like the world's).
If you are the best in a 3-week GC Tour, you will get a lot of points as you compete against the same riders day in day out. Every rider in a GC tour gets worse, but if you're the best, you get less worse.
It's different in 1-day races: There is a lot more going on in terms of racing strategy, and if you are the best in a certain time frame (e.g. the Ardennes classics), you have 3 chances in 2.5 weeks to score points, and each race is against a full peloton with new, fresh riders.
Compare that to a GC rider who gets 4-5 mountain stages, a TT in the end with a reduced (crashed out) and not so fresh peloton, and ofcourse, you get a lot of points for the overall GC.
I don't say or argue that the GC riders don't deserve this, but it is skewed. So in order to score this bizarre amount of points over Sagan / Gilbert, we need a dominant GC rider that just keeps on going and has the tactical insight in winning classics. And that's where we are now with the absolute legendary Tadej Pogacar. Sometimes I feel we aren't giving him enough attention on this forum. Other GC winners would have finished the season already after the Tour or the Olympics, but Pogacar keeps going, even in races that aren't his cup of tea (like the world's).
IMO most rankings mostly way overrate lesser one day races and lesser placings, rather than overrating GC guys.
According to PCS, CQ and UCI ranking this should be the top10 of 2021:
1.Pogacar: 1 1 1 = 3pts
2. Van Aert: 2 2 2 = 6pts
3.Roglic: 3 3 3 = 9pts
4. Alaphilippe: 4 5 4 = 13pts
5.Colbrelli: 6 4 7 = 17 pts
6. Bernal: 8 6 6 = 20pts
6.Almeida: 5 7 8 = 20pts
8. MvdP: 9 8 5 = 22pts
9.Philipsen: 7 10 13 = 30pts
10.Carapaz: 9 14 9 = 32pts
11.Mohoric: 10 12 11 = 33pts
12.A. Yates: 10 13 12 = 35pts
I do not really know how they make up their rankings and what races they take into account but I quite like it. I might put Roglic in 2nd place tho.
Philipsen should not be there tho.
1.Pogacar: 1 1 1 = 3pts
2. Van Aert: 2 2 2 = 6pts
3.Roglic: 3 3 3 = 9pts
4. Alaphilippe: 4 5 4 = 13pts
5.Colbrelli: 6 4 7 = 17 pts
6. Bernal: 8 6 6 = 20pts
6.Almeida: 5 7 8 = 20pts
8. MvdP: 9 8 5 = 22pts
9.Philipsen: 7 10 13 = 30pts
10.Carapaz: 9 14 9 = 32pts
11.Mohoric: 10 12 11 = 33pts
12.A. Yates: 10 13 12 = 35pts
I do not really know how they make up their rankings and what races they take into account but I quite like it. I might put Roglic in 2nd place tho.
Philipsen should not be there tho.
Last edited:
Bernal won the Giro....
You get all sorts of dumb stuff like UCI world ranking rating 3rd in Tre Valli or Milano Torino higher than winning a Tour stage.
I think Purito in 2012 could have been the best season of the last 10 years if he could finish the job at giro and vuelta. Giro + Vuelta + Lombardia + flechee wallone. If only he could time trial a bit better.
Similarly in 2013 he could have done LBL + Worlds + Lombardia + Tour podium.
Similarly in 2013 he could have done LBL + Worlds + Lombardia + Tour podium.
Armchair cyclist
Moderator
If we are to trust the PCS algorithm, and take the thread title of 30 years as our parameter, then Jalabert 1995 is a long way clear of anything else.
Wins in Vuelta, Milan-San Remo , Paris-Nice, Fleche Wallonne, Volta a Catalunya, Criterium International, GP de Toulouse, GP Amore-Bieta, Green Jersey in Tour (4th in GC)
Wins in Vuelta, Milan-San Remo , Paris-Nice, Fleche Wallonne, Volta a Catalunya, Criterium International, GP de Toulouse, GP Amore-Bieta, Green Jersey in Tour (4th in GC)
Yes, when Pog does what Stephen Roche did, we can call him a great rider.
Lol yes, the only real benchmark of the cycling Gods, Stephen Roche.
If rankings are skewed towards gc guys, it’s probably because winning gc is the hardest thing in the sport. If it wasn’t, everyone would do it. If there were a way to make GC more open to guys like Sagan/Gilbert, not to mention Ganna, maybe it would be more fair on them; Kelly and Moser had to take a LOT of time in sprint bonuses and TTs to take their GT wins.
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
Liege Bastogne Liege-7 hour monument, Sunday, April 21, 2024- Started by topcat
- Replies: 985
-
Paris - Roubaix 2024, one day monument, April 7- Started by Dreginald
- Replies: 2K
-
-
-
De Ronde van Vlaanderen (270.8 km), 2024 March 31 (Sunday)- Started by Netserk
- Replies: 1K
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 24K
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram