Who have been the clean winners over the years?

[nightfend]

I'm not convinced that Lance used EPO much past 2001. Around that time period the testing became better, and there was too much to risk. I believe he found a better system by using autologous blood transfusions before key stages. That way he could keep his red blood count high when it was needed without flagging any of the doping tests of the time.

Also, before out of competition tests were the norm, it made sense to take doping products so you could train/recover at a higher level, then taper off before the races to avoid detection.

 

[yetanothergreenworld]

I'm not convinced that Lance used EPO much past 2001. Around that time period the testing became better, and there was too much to risk. I believe he found a better system by using autologous blood transfusions before key stages.

What about Armstrong and testosterone? My friend from Germany (make of that what you will) is always going on about the fact that, because of his reduced sources of natural testosterone, Armstrong was basically on a regiment of synthetic testosterone that kept his levels both higher and more regular than they would have been naturally. Does anyone know if there's anything to this?

 

[BigBoat]

What about Armstrong and testosterone? My friend from Germany (make of that what you will) is always going on about the fact that, because of his reduced sources of natural testosterone, Armstrong was basically on a regiment of synthetic testosterone that kept his levels both higher and more regular than they would have been naturally. Does anyone know if there's anything to this?

Its true I've heard he has a TUI.

 

[pmcg76]

, Greg LeMond: The problem with Americans is that our ethics are sometimes a bit naive-don't get me wrong, the American ethic is really good, I like the American attitude, but it doesn't really bite into the reality of situation.

This quote from the LeMond interview in 98 is absolutely spot on and is the reason why so many Americans believe in Lance 100%. This is my exact impression of Americans in general. To be honest I find this mentality truly positive and uplifting compared to the level of cynicism in my own country and indeed when I return home, it takes me a long, long time to readjust to that level of cynicism, I even feel depressed for a time.

However, like LeMond, I realise that the positive naive attitude doesnt reflect reality and could easily be manipulated by politicians & indeed sportstars for their own purposes. Combined with the current level of paranoia & insularity that exists in the US, its is the perfect audience for Lance fo play off, especially with his twittering.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I don't know about the TUI, but one nut will produce as much T as two nuts will in almost every man.

As to the autologous blood doping, if you believe the Vaughters-Andreu PM (as I do) you have your answer right there.

 

[Jarvis]

And I thought I was jaded.

The discussion becomes more peculiar when you start to assume most people doped, and argue to what degree

Not jaded, just realistic. For a history of doping have look at the Saxo Bank Forums
http://forum.teamcsc-saxobank.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5013
KD Teammate has it all.

Personally grand tour winnners are in doubt. Pretty much anyone who won any big event from about '95 through to '07. I think some classics winners were clean - Backstedt is onoe that springs to mind, Tafi I'd like to think was clean, but he rode at the wrong time as far as doping is concerned

 

[Angliru]

Cadel. With the suffering on his face, that can only be real

That wasn't suffering that was the gagging in his throat knowing he was going to choke on Alpe d'Huez and the final time trial.

Seriously though, I saw suffering in Kohl's face too and we know what came of that.

 

[Angliru]

ditto...

weather was lovely in paris last year till cadel came up the champs elysees then a big miserable black cloud appeared... i think they should relax the doping rules for him and allow him some uppers or summat to cheer the miserable so-an-so up..

That brought me to tears! One of my co-workers asked me if I was alright!

 

[BigBoat]

Not jaded, just realistic. For a history of doping have look at the Saxo Bank Forums
http://forum.teamcsc-saxobank.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5013
KD Teammate has it all.

Pretty much anyone who won any big event from about '95 through to '07.

Anyone who competed or competes in a big event bro! All of em'! I dont doubt there was some nice guys that didnt, but christ how do you fight back? Drugs were/ are part of the European pro field.

The drug dealer was the medical commisioner! Maybe is?

 

[Bala Verde]

Anyone who competed or competes in a big event bro! All of em'! I dont doubt there was some nice guys that didnt, but christ how do you fight back? Drugs were/ are part of the European pro field.

The drug dealer was the medical commisioner! Maybe is?

make that 'pro' field...

 

[Angliru]

The only current rider I can think of is Gilberto Simoni. That crankiness being a result of having to fight off all the cheaters and back stabbers (Cunego/Saeco management 2004). He has been steady like a metronome in his performances at the Giro with the exception of his one bad day last year.
Now I have to question his seeming closeness with Ricco while on Saunier Duval-Scott but otherwise he's continued doing what he does best-climbing at the Giro-with few deviations. He's a climber, pure and simple.

I'm a big Simoni fan so my opinion is quite biased.

 

[Escarabajo]

Whatever happened to the Colombian climbers from the 80's who used to enjoy the high hematocrit levels of living in Los Andes Colombianos. They have been non-existant in the 90's. I guess it was not enough to keep up with the EPO. The last Colombian champion was Santiago Botero and we all know how that turned out. I have serious doubts about the Power from Juan Mauricio Soler, but we will know one day how that will turn out. I am guessing that the lack of money to support high tech doping programs from the Colombian sponsors just killed international cycling for us.
Clean riders Votes from the past: Lemmond and all those riders that have been mentioned in this threads. Add some of the colombians goats.
Clean riders from Today: ????. I like Sastre a lot. The only strong case i can make for him is his consistency in just about every tour even after the tests have intensified and have been better. That could have been the reason why He won in a very quiet and consistent manner (A la Greg Lemmond)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The drug dealer was the medical commisioner! Maybe is?

Are you talking about Francesco Conconi perhaps? He wasn't a commissioner, but the anti-doping watchdog, while administering and selling drugs at the same time!

 

[Grater]

I think O'Grady is probably clean. Rode with CA a good while too. But that's just a guess. I can't ever be sure of any cyclist. Some of the pro peloton's secrets will always stay secret.

After watching his and CSC's effort last year in the TDF, they, including him were on something.

 

[tifosa]

After watching his and CSC's effort last year in the TDF, they, including him were on something.

Your powers of observation should be tapped by WADA and the AFLD. Crap, they should tap my powers of observation too. Together we could change the world of cycling! Most of us here on the forum have nothing but outsider knowledge. We spin rumors into facts, speculation into truth, wild guesses into gospel, and are willing to distort innuendo to suit our version of what happened.

Lets have all the clean riders speak up! That leaves us with who? Oh, yeah, the one's who've "never tested positive." Not proof positive that they've ever doped - just "evidence" that they haven't been caught - yet.

Honestly, I have no insider knowledge, no intimate secrets to share, nothing that could pass as definitive proof. I just have my silly wild-*** guess. That's MY story, and I'm sticking to it