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Who is America's best GT shot?

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Jul 25, 2010
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CentralCaliBike said:
Last I checked baseball is still going strong, so is track and field, football, auto racing, and a number of other sports that have had the same problems. Your average viewer does not care that much and a significant portion support their rider doing whatever he needs to win.

Those are all American dominated sports though, if one football/basketball/baseball player gets busted there are 500 others to replace him. When the old guys are gone in the next 2-3 years there will only be VDV, DZ, and Danielson that are at the age they should be, plus Tyler, off topic/non GC. Not certain if Brent Bookwalter can go anywhere, he did well at the Giro and TdF as a dom and can TT, 26 years old, 5'11" and 150lbs (according to wikipedia)
 
Jun 19, 2009
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straydog said:
oh and Phinney....America's answer to Spartacus....I think he will win a lot in his life....a hell of a lot...in one dayers and TTs...but if he ever even equals Wiggin's at the tour...I will suck his CXXK

Your willingness to kneel before your sports stars is more than a little disturbing. Are you hoping he wins a GT?
 
Jul 23, 2009
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outrage9 said:
Those are all American dominated sports though, if one football/basketball/baseball player gets busted there are 500 others to replace him. When the old guys are gone in the next 2-3 years there will only be VDV, DZ, and Danielson that are at the age they should be, plus Tyler, off topic/non GC. Not certain if Brent Bookwalter can go anywhere, he did well at the Giro and TdF as a dom and can TT, 26 years old, 5'11" and 150lbs (according to wikipedia)

There have been plenty of GC contenders (and winners) that were in their early 20s. I believe that the next US star could easily be someone who is now in their mid to late teens but I doubt we will see a contender for the next two to five years as much as I would like to see Phinney do well since I have been following him since he was 14-15 or so.
 
Jul 25, 2010
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CentralCaliBike said:
There have been plenty of GC contenders (and winners) that were in their early 20s. I believe that the next US star could easily be someone who is now in their mid to late teens but I doubt we will see a contender for the next two to five years as much as I would like to see Phinney do well since I have been following him since he was 14-15 or so.

Possible yes, but not probable. It just takes longer, typically, for a GC contender to mature and its harder in cycling because of American access to European racing, they just can't get what they need here in the States. A pro (fill in the ball of choice player) has a lot more chance at being a star right out of college and be on a winning team and maybe even a Super Bowl/World Series/etc since it isn't up to one guy's ability climbing that last few k of a MTF or TT alone.
 
straydog said:
oh and Phinney....America's answer to Spartacus....I think he will win a lot in his life....a hell of a lot...in one dayers and TTs...but if he ever even equals Wiggin's at the tour...I will suck his CXXK

Lance will be so jealous. Seriously though, that level of attachment to any sports figure is unhealthy. Have you ever thought of seeking counseling?:cool:
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Hugh Januss said:
Lance will be so jealous. Seriously though, that level of attachment to any sports figure is unhealthy. Have you ever thought of seeking counseling?:cool:

has it not crossed your guys mind that perhaps he's gay, or a girl and would just like to suck his c*** anyway
 
Oct 26, 2009
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outrage9 said:
I mentioned this in another post and I agree with Hugh, I just don't think we'll have one any time soon really. The only hope we once had for someone to fill that spot now was Danielson and well, no comment needed. I just don't think a sprinter will grab American attention, even if Farrar could beat Cavendish and get a green. We need a GC rider to keep overall interest up but we may be headed for dark ages.

I'm sure many on here won't mind that but what that'll mean is less support, less tv coverage, less sponsor money, less US races like TdG and Missouri, Cali could be next, less everything. We'll be stuck reading play by play here or paying to watch online for most races except maybe the TdF and that could go back to weekly coverage. If American money leaves cycling overall won't die, but it will be a global loss. '09 American viewership was up 77% over '08 supposedly just because Lance came back, and all of the old US guys were there in 08. When Hincapie, Levi, Horner, etc leave it will be slim pickins here for coverage.

I agree with your assessment. We are in a drought. I am one of those guys who really doesn't care about that, but I do understand the effects that will have on US coverage and money in the sport. Most Americans don't care enough about the sport to watch it if their are no Americans who can actually win.

What happened with Tom Danielson? Was he really ever a real GT contendor or was it the US media just talking about someone who really never had the necessary talents?
 
Jun 18, 2009
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In no particular order, my thoughts for "potential" guys are Ben King, Ian Boswell and Andrew Talansky. Phinney's a one day guy, I don't see him ever being a grand tour rider.

TJ is already good, and will probably get better, but honestly I don't know anything about the guy as he's been in Europe forever.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Ryo Hazuki said:
has it not crossed your guys mind that perhaps he's gay, or a girl and would just like to suck his c*** anyway

...and there's nothing wrong with that. I was just curious if he really, really, REALLY wanted him to win?
 
Oct 26, 2009
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131313 said:
In no particular order, my thoughts for "potential" guys are Ben King, Ian Boswell and Andrew Talansky. Phinney's a one day guy, I don't see him ever being a grand tour rider.

TJ is already good, and will probably get better, but honestly I don't know anything about the guy as he's been in Europe forever.

How old are these guys? Are they on a ProTour team now?
 
straydog said:
Van Garderen by a country mile....The guy has so much potential....As soon as HTC decide that they can have the fastest sprinter and a genuine GC contender on the same team, he stands a very good shot. Watch him go at the Vuelta.

If Van DV can stay on his bike for long enough next year....he might well be close to the podium again....but can he match Schleck or Contador when the road really starts to go up?

Horner?....He crept into the top ten this year because he was allowed to get away in the stage 16 break due to his time deficit...

And i agree with the post about hoping the USA don't go through a dark age....even though i am in the UK and our dark age has been considerable longer....and will I am afraid remain so....I am certainly not going to support the english speaking GC "contender" with the squeaky voice.

I forgot Leipheimer....but honestly....he is pretty forgettable....nothing against him....

Horner did accrue a certain amount of that deficit while being made to play nursemaid to Armstrong TBF.

Warning: Small amount of clinic materiel is necessary here.I apologize in advance.
I am not sure what to make of him. Is he doing better at his age because he has always been clean(er) and everyone else is throttling back to his level or what?

If LL ever won the tour I would have to kill myself, once I woke up, as it would have to be a tour completely devoid of attacking.

Tejay currently seems like our best hope, but I think I agree with the Michael Rogers comparison.
 
Jul 27, 2010
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Ryo Hazuki said:
has it not crossed your guys mind that perhaps he's gay, or a girl and would just like to suck his c*** anyway

Wow....nice input to the discussion

man do you guys just have nothing better to do or be interested in than follow me round trying to "upset" me....surely there are other "fanboys" you haven't tried to troll yet


My god...if i am gay....that would just make me even more hateful wouldn't it....or a girl....cos fxck them too....


If you don't want to discuss this thread I suggest maybe...you keep your prejudices out of it too

Sorry to everyone else trying to discuss the next US GT contender....they might get bored soon

And i have to say from over here it seems the US prospects in cycling look pretty good generally as well as for GTs
 
straydog said:
Wow....nice input to the discussion

man do you guys just have nothing better to do or be interested in than follow me round trying to "upset" me....surely there are other "fanboys" you haven't tried to troll yet


My god...if i am gay....that would just make me even more hateful wouldn't it....or a girl....cos fxck them too....


If you don't want to discuss this thread I suggest maybe...you keep your prejudices out of it too

Sorry to everyone else trying to discuss the next US GT contender....they might get bored soon

And i have to say from over here it seems the US prospects in cycling look pretty good generally as well as for GTs

It was a freeking joke......grow some skin.:p

Besides you brought it up. I realise that was a joke too, but under the circumstances do you think it is wise to leave yourself that wide open?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Hugh Januss said:
It was a freeking joke......grow some skin.:p

Besides you brought it up. I realise that was a joke too, but under the circumstances do you think it is wise to leave yourself that wide open?

I thought you wanted to distance yourself from this trend. I'll take the high road from here on out if you can stop yourself.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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CentralCaliBike said:
Last I checked baseball is still going strong, so is track and field, football, auto racing mechanical doping is very common), and a number of other sports that have had the same problems. Your average viewer does not care that much and a significant portion support their rider doing whatever he needs to win.
Those sports are relatively well-established in the US with comparatively broad-based fan support. Cycling is barely on the map as it is, and that's mostly due to Armstrong, and imo it won't take much to push cycling right off the map altogether. And that means sponsorship for development teams for young US riders drying up, etc.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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VeloCity said:
Those sports are relatively well-established in the US with comparatively broad-based fan support. Cycling is barely on the map as it is, and that's mostly due to Armstrong, and imo it won't take much to push cycling right off the map altogether. And that means sponsorship for development teams for young US riders drying up, etc.

The point is that most sports enthusiasts do not care about doping nearly as much as they care about winning no matter what sport you talk about. The companies supporting athletes are a little more concerned because they have potential customers who are not sports enthusiasts so they will drop athletes who get caught. There might be some slow down in the financial support of cycling but with LA and Lemond bringing the sport to the average sports enthusiast, I do not see funding for cycling dying out in the US. Certainly funding dries up in a bad economy but that is not related to doping.
 
Jul 25, 2010
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It's apples and oranges because of the joke testing these guys have. If Kobe, Vick, Jeter and the likes had to notify their sanctioning bodies of their whereabouts 365 days of the year or be woke up at 6AM Saturday morning during the off season or while on vacation to pee in a cup or get poked, how do you think that would go over. If the winning team every night had to give a sample before they go party plus some random testing of the losers... The closest any of these sports have to scrutiny is in NASCAR with the inspections they do of the cars pre and post race.

So all thats on the news every year is some cyclist or track and field star gets busted yet it's only every few years we have a Mark McGwire incident, thats all that America sees. Most have no idea the amount of testing cyclists have compared to the big 3 ball sports.
 
Time

straydog said:
oh and Phinney....America's answer to Spartacus....I think he will win a lot in his life....a hell of a lot...in one dayers and TTs...but if he ever even equals Wiggin's at the tour...I will suck his CXXK

Wiggens may never equal Wiggens again. Teejay certainly could come up and prove to be a great GC rider and I wouldn't discount Phinney yet. If you asked me if Ryder Hesjedal could compete on GC three years ago I would have LOL'ed. Sure he's probably 15lbs lighter than Phinney is but he's still a young racer with track weight. Indurain was the last racer to win at 180lbs and I suspect he will be the last. Picking future stars is tough business, wether hype or group think we all believed Tommy D could win stage races and this did not come true. One thing for sure, the GC guys we have now can not win in my opinion. Lots of people point out that Horner benefited from a break and he certainly did but I also think he waited with LA one day and lost time. Not that I believe Horner could do it now but its interesting to think what may have been.

On another point I don't think cycling will be effected if/when LA goes down in flames. Cycling has a much broader appeal than it did 20 years ago when Lemond was winning tours. Here in New England road and cross races regularly hit the field limit and to me thats the sign of cycling's health. What Lance did or does won't effect the real base of cycling, its right here in your club and always will be.
 
May 7, 2009
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JRTinMA said:
Here in New England road and cross races regularly hit the field limit and to me thats the sign of cycling's health. What Lance did or does won't effect the real base of cycling, its right here in your club and always will be.

I see that here (Colorado) as well, to a point. The lower categories in the Men’s fields often fill. Other categories also seem to be doing pretty well. It seems that if you love the sport, you stick with it. However, I believe there is a distinction to be made between participation on the grass-roots level and sponsorship by larger companies at the national/international level. I am thinking that the second case is what people are worried about?

EDIT: some people here have suggested this possibility as a justification to "look the other way" or to protect/defend a certain famous rider. I could not disagree more. The truth should be more important than the dollar.
 
Deagol said:
I see that here (Colorado) as well, to a point. The lower categories in the Men’s fields often fill. Other categories also seem to be doing pretty well. It seems that if you love the sport, you stick with it. However, I believe there is a distinction to be made between participation on the grass-roots level and sponsorship by larger companies at the national/international level. I am thinking that the second case is what people are worried about?

EDIT: some people here have suggested this possibility as a justification to "look the other way" or to protect/defend a certain famous rider. I could not disagree more. The truth should be more important than the dollar.

Good point. All I can add is I think many US companies enter cycling to be better known in Europe, not to expand their US base. If they think this is a good spend it will continue. Certainly the risk is there though.
 
outrage9 said:
It's apples and oranges because of the joke testing these guys have. If Kobe, Vick, Jeter and the likes had to notify their sanctioning bodies of their whereabouts 365 days of the year or be woke up at 6AM Saturday morning during the off season or while on vacation to pee in a cup or get poked, how do you think that would go over. If the winning team every night had to give a sample before they go party plus some random testing of the losers... The closest any of these sports have to scrutiny is in NASCAR with the inspections they do of the cars pre and post race.

So all thats on the news every year is some cyclist or track and field star gets busted yet it's only every few years we have a Mark McGwire incident, thats all that America sees. Most have no idea the amount of testing cyclists have compared to the big 3 ball sports.

You also have to realize that the big 3 ball sports have players who are unionized and have a collective bargaining agreement. If officials come down to harshly (in the eyes of the players) there could be a strike.
 

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