Who is the better Classics cyclist between Tadej Pogačar and Mathieu van der Poel?

[Berniece]

The fact is that MVP lost last two Flandres races he contested against Pog and has little or zero chance in two other monuments (not just because of Pog but also others) .

OTOH only MVP at his best terrain stopped Pog from sweeping all monuments in one year.

There hasnt been such an all monument monster like Pog for a long time.

If MVP was a current holder of 3 monuments and WC there would be no doubts. Ie he was the best in 2023 with two monuments and WC.

Again he lost it because he was sick. If we are going to ignore such information then we can just agree to disagree

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Again he lost it because he was sick. If we are going to ignore such information then we can just agree to disagree

In 2022 he was at his best and still lost. You cant ignore two consecutive losses and the fact that Pog is much better at his worst terrain (ie MSR) than MVP at his worst ( Lombardy).

In my book it should be about feats in last 12 months anyway and its clear of course.

 

[Vinther1991]

Pogacar has 9 monument wins, MvdP has 8. However, Lombardia is certainly the least prestigious monument, 4 of Pogacar’s wins are in Lombardia, while 3 of MvdPs wins are in Roubaix, which is the most prestigious. So that evens out. Still Pogacar has more wins in the only other six classics that I consider significant (Strade, E3, Gent, Amstel, Fleche and San Sebastian), so he pulls ahead.

Looking at potential, Pogacar can win San Remo and Roubaix, at least if MvdP isn’t there. MvdP can win Liege if he makes it a more primary target, if Pogacar isn’t there, and if Alpecin shows up with a stronger team. Winning Lombardia seems impossible for MvdP.

So probably Pogacar as of now.

Remco isn’t even close. Especially not if championships don’t count. He may even be below Wout, who besides San Remo has won E3 (twice), Gent, Strade and Amstel and podiumed 4 diffenret monuments.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

@Vinther1991
In terms of overall resume we will have a clear picture when both end careers. Pog is more likely to finish ahead though.

BTW look at Pogs schedule. He's basically a one day racer who does the Tour (and one prep race Dauphine). Plus UAE early in the season due to sponsors.

 

[Berniece]

In 2022 he was at his best and still lost. You cant ignore two consecutive losses and the fact that Pog is much better at his worst terrain (ie MSR) than MVP at his worst ( Lombardy).

In my book it should be about feats in last 12 months anyway and its clear of course.

And Pogacar and MVDP are the same riders they were in 2022? Cool I guess Evenepoel will easily win WC then

 

[chickenlips]

Even though i voted for MVDP, I think Remco is a close second, as he has won LBL twice. Actually, why is Remco even on the poll without other riders who are just as deserving? Ah, just for a bit of fun, now I get it.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

BTW look at Pogs schedule. He's basically a one day racer who does the Tour (and one prep race Dauphine). Plus UAE early in the season due to sponsors.

Ah, so we can say the same for MvdP; he's a CX rider who does the Classics, and has to do the Tour for sponsors....

 

[Krzysztof_O]

And Pogacar and MVDP are the same riders they were in 2022? Cool I guess Evenepoel will easily win WC then

No, Pogacar became the most dominant rider in the last 50 years since then. If you simply ignore their results and h2h then you have to accept the above fact.

 

[Netserk]

https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/who-is-the-better-classics-cyclist-between-tadej-pogačar-and-mathieu-van-der-poel.39354/

We don't need another Pogacar thread.

tophat suggestion

 

[Netserk]

In 2022 he was at his best and still lost. You cant ignore two consecutive losses and the fact that Pog is much better at his worst terrain (ie MSR) than MVP at his worst ( Lombardy).

In my book it should be about feats in last 12 months anyway and its clear of course.

On the other hand, if it's about feats in the last 12 days, then getting dropped by Van Aert on a cobbled hill automatically disqualifies Pogi.

 

[Red Rick]

Pogacar is literally exploding in Jaizkibel in August, I wouldnt count on him doing remotely well in classics after the Tour. August and November are probably Pog's worst months during the whole calender

They are his worst months, but at the same time 1 hilariously terrible San Sebastian where he clearly didn't give a *** shouldn't be taken that seriously, especially as he's done much better races post TdF in the 2021 Olympics, 2020 Liege and even WC (who knows what he could've done without that meme attack), and the 2023 WC.

Wouldn't be that surprised if he tried his best to prep for those WC and Olympics while he just partied his socks off after the TdF before San Sebastian.

 

[Peyroteo94]

On the other hand, if it's about feats in the last 12 days, then getting dropped by Van Aert on a cobbled hill automatically disqualifies Pogi.

What is a reasonable time span for you? 1 year, 3 years, entire career?

 

[Red Rick]

As for the threat title, it's very clearly Pogacar > MvdP > Evenepoel with Pogacar taking it overall, MvdP being the best aggregate cobbles + Sanremo/Flandrien style rider and Evenepoel being the best championship style rider on these rolling, uncontrollable parcourses that are too hard/not controllable for sprinter reams but are clearly not hard enough for selection to happen naturally by attrition where Pogacar starts winning by default.

 

[Netserk]

What is a reasonable time span for you? 1 year, 3 years, entire career?

Whatever least favours Pogi.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Because there is more to classics than just monuments. It’s also weird you think MVDP can’t win RVV with Pogacar there. He was clearly not himself this year, or you think it’s normal he finished with Pedersen and WVA…

If I say Mark Cavendish is a better climber than Contador, this is considered a different opinion from almost the entire forum or is it blatant trolling?

Even If I scream 10x Cav is better than Contador in the mountains and the vast majority of people is saying the opposite, probably I'm wrong.

Just saying.

 

[Berniece]

If I say Mark Cavendish is a better climber than Contador, this is considered a different opinion from almost the entire forum or is it blatant trolling?

Even If I scream 10x Cav is better than Contador in the mountains and the vast majority of people is saying the opposite, probably I'm wrong.

Just saying.

Okay, if you think that’s the same feel free to close the topic.

 

[Netserk]

If I say Mark Cavendish is a better climber than Contador, this is considered a different opinion from almost the entire forum or is it blatant trolling?

Even If I scream 10x Cav is better than Contador in the mountains and the vast majority of people is saying the opposite, probably I'm wrong.

Just saying.

If you opened a thread about who was the better climber between Cav and Contador, should you be banned for baiting?

 

[Peyroteo94]

If you opened a thread about who was the better climber between Cav and Contador, should you be banned for baiting?

I would never open such a stupid thread (and I know what you are doing), but yes.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

None of them have won or would be favorites at Scheldeprijs so can't really give my vote to any of them.

 

[Berniece]

No, it's obviously not the same.
However you use arguments that are factually incorrect and this for me is taunting.
You say MVP is better than Pogacar in classics (without being monuments or WC) but Pogacar has a better palmares while being younger almost 4 years.

MVP:
6 WT classics
Dwaars 2x
E3 2x
SB
AGR

Pogacar:
8 WT classics
SB 3x
Montreal 2x
FW 2x
AGR

Again, you are using incorrect DATA to justify your opinion and you continue to do it. This is borderline trolling because people who can't admit when they are wrong and stick to a narrative based on incorrect arguments (numbers are objective, not subjective), are probably trolling. There are only 2 things that come to my mind:
1. Or you have a low IQ (which I don't believe, since you seem like a normal guy)
2. Or you are trolling

I vote in number 2. Unfortunately moderation can't do anything against you but I will probably get a ban for saying you are trolling.
I had a very good behaviour in the TDF (for respect to redflanders who gave me my last ban) but I didn't resist to respond you right now, specially when you keep saying things completely out of reality.

Because you are only looking at races they race, while I’m looking at the races they don’t.

 

[scribers]

What’s the point of this thread? Or is this just so you can *** on other people with different views?

It’s worth looking at as a group. Don’t be offended by the results

 

[AmRacer]

Because you are only looking at races they race, while I’m looking at the races they don’t.

That's another point of view.
Who's the best at races neither of them race. 🤔

 

[scribers]

That's another point of view.
Who's the best at races neither of them race. 🤔

I could make a solid argument for myself. And could probably present the argument as existentialism poetry. Perhaps with some rhyming and potential for off off broadway theater.

 

[iBanesto]

Vingegaard...

 

[scribers]

Vingegaard...

If it were possible to isolate some races in July. He might be a factor. To suck wheels