Who is the better Classics cyclist between Tadej Pogačar and Mathieu van der Poel?

[Peyroteo94]

Because you are only looking at races they race, while I’m looking at the races they don’t.

I'm the best racer in PR. Unfortunately, we will never know If I am or not.

 

[scribers]

Is there a thread about greatest GT riders rankings? Would like to see where Vingo stacks up. He has to be quite high compared to many dominant riders. Perhaps a more perfect rider than indurain

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If I say Mark Cavendish is a better climber than Contador, this is considered a different opinion from almost the entire forum or is it blatant trolling?

Even If I scream 10x Cav is better than Contador in the mountains and the vast majority of people is saying the opposite, probably I'm wrong.

Just saying.

As @Berniece says the forum is to express opinions and I agree (even though I disagree regarding this thread). It's not an adequate comparison cause MVP is easily top2 classics rider in the world now (and was the best at some point) while Cav, well...

 

[Berniece]

I'm the best racer in PR. Unfortunately, we will never know If I am or not.

Yeah, that's the same... It's easier to just ignore that MVDP would more easily win Bretagne, Brussels cycling, Paris Tours, etc.

 

[Berflamand]

If I say Mark Cavendish is a better climber than Contador, this is considered a different opinion from almost the entire forum or is it blatant trolling?

Even If I scream 10x Cav is better than Contador in the mountains and the vast majority of people is saying the opposite, probably I'm wrong.

Just saying.

What's the point of this thread where you yourself gave three options to vote for when you dismiss someone actually defending one of those three options as blatant trolling?

Berniece isn't even arguing in favor of Remco but in favor of MvdP who can imo at least be considered somewhat close to Pog when it comes to classics.

I'm now curious what you would think/say about someone defending Remco even though you gave the option yourself (or was that just to have a chance at belittling him which some posters already have done?)?

By the way, my vote goes to Pog.

 

[Peyroteo94]

What's the point of this thread where you yourself gave three options to vote for when you dismiss someone actually defending one of those three options as blatant trolling?

Berniece isn't even arguing in favor of Remco but in favor of MvdP who can imo at least be considered somewhat close to Pog when it comes to classics.

I'm now curious what you would think/say about someone defending Remco even though you gave the option yourself (or was that just to have a chance at belittling him which some posters already have done?)?

By the way, my vote goes to Pog.

I tried to write a PM. I can't. Unfortunately I can't write here.

 

[greyclouds]

Yeah, that's the same... It's easier to just ignore that MVDP would more easily win Bretagne, Brussels cycling, Paris Tours, etc.

Being present at races in a race-winning shape is part of what makes the best the best. Would Merckx be the best ever if he would have retired after his first TdF win?

Let me help - I do think that MvdP is a more naturally gifted classics rider than Pogacar, and I think that if he would be able to sustain his usual March/April top shape he could have a bigger classics’ palmares then Pogacar. But the thing is that he doesn’t and he might never be able to achieve that, whether due to his natural physique, training regime or because he still peaks for CX. It doesn’t make him less exciting or less phenomenal; he will still go down as one of the best classic riders ever.

 

[James M]

It goes without saying that Pogi boy is easily by far the best classics rider as a whole. MvdP, however, just as easily, you could argue is the best cobble classics rider, thats it.

Also, the two best active riders in the world today historically, in their respective lanes and both unprecedented high on that list simultaneously. Which means when they meet in the classics it adds another dimension to it.

 

[jono]

Being present at races in a race-winning shape is part of what makes the best the best. Would Merckx be the best ever if he would have retired after his first TdF win?

Let me help - I do think that MvdP is a more naturally gifted classics rider than Pogacar, and I think that if he would be able to sustain his usual March/April top shape he could have a bigger classics’ palmares then Pogacar. But the thing is that he doesn’t and he might never be able to achieve that, whether due to his natural physique, training regime or because he still peaks for CX. It doesn’t make him less exciting or less phenomenal; he will still go down as one of the best classic riders ever.

I don't think MVDP has had a true peak in cyclocross season in years. He simply doesn't need to.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Being present at races in a race-winning shape is part of what makes the best the best. Would Merckx be the best ever if he would have retired after his first TdF win?

Let me help - I do think that MvdP is a more naturally gifted classics rider than Pogacar, and I think that if he would be able to sustain his usual March/April top shape he could have a bigger classics’ palmares then Pogacar. But the thing is that he doesn’t and he might never be able to achieve that, whether due to his natural physique, training regime or because he still peaks for CX. It doesn’t make him less exciting or less phenomenal; he will still go down as one of the best classic riders ever.

And Pogacar isn't also focusing his season on winning GTs?
What if Pogacar started to race earlier races like cobbled classics, wouldn't he have a better palmares? Or CX is hampering MVP but GTs aren't hampering Pogacar?
As any bike race in the world, monuments are won mainly on watts/kg and there my friend, no one beats Pogacar. So he is the most talented rider, because he is "freaker" than MVP.

 

[Cookster15]

Mod hat on: I have merged the 'Best classics rider in the world' thread with this thread.

 

[topcat]

Mod hat on: I have merged the 'Best classics rider in the world' thread with this thread.

So we're all agreed, it's Ciccone. Close the thread.

 

[Gratemans]

It goes without saying that Pogi boy is easily by far the best classics rider as a whole. MvdP, however, just as easily, you could argue is the best cobble classics rider, thats it.

Also, the two best active riders in the world today historically, in their respective lanes and both unprecedented high on that list simultaneously. Which means when they meet in the classics it adds another dimension to it.

I think this is a fair take I can agree with.

But in general, why start a thread like this? It'll only result in futile, heated discussions and bans. Can't we just enjoy each classic without having to put one rider above another?
In my ideal world, we should all be fanboys of the sport and the race, certainly not fanboys of riders.

(I'm very well aware that'll never happen though)

 

[Oldman]

As @Berniece says the forum is to express opinions and I agree (even though I disagree regarding this thread). It's not an adequate comparison cause MVP is easily top2 classics rider in the world now (and was the best at some point) while Cav, well...

I think we could safely and simply call him the Best Racer. You don't hold World CX, MTB and RR titles and not be an exceptional racer. Ask PFP...she knows how hard it is.

 

[Fuente De]

There is something about MVP accelerating in a classics that you don't get from any other rider. Super stylish, furious, and powerful. Don't care if he is the best, been his fan since seeing him live in Tabor and before.

 

[Pippo_San]

Tadej is certainly the best. Can win everything, everywhere, in every possible way.
But MVDP, when he finds his legs, he's a sight to behold. A statue on the bike, powerful yet agile, funneling those insane watts like no one.
So I can't choose because I love them both, and I hope to see them dueling more and more (with WvA and Remco here and there).

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

MVDP is the only one who can challenge Pog in classics if it's flat enough/doesn't have hard % near 10%.
Which makes classics a dull affair in a sort of crossroads were the easier classics get dominated by MVDP and the harder ones by Pogacar lately.

Pog is probably the best cyclist ever so also the better classics rider overall since MVDP can't really do the harder classics (although he is decent in LBL and was also decent in Zürich worlds). But be happy VDP is there otherwise he'd go unopposed in all.

 

[Peyroteo94]

MVDP is the only one who can challenge Pog in classics if it's flat enough/doesn't have hard % near 10%.
Which makes classics a dull affair in a sort of crossroads were the easier classics get dominated by MVDP and the harder ones by Pogacar lately.

Pog is probably the best cyclist ever so also the better classics rider overall since MVDP can't really do the harder classics (although he is decent in LBL and was also decent in Zürich worlds). But be happy VDP is there otherwise he'd go unopposed in all.

Spot on.

 

[SHAD0W93]

As @Berniece says the forum is to express opinions and I agree (even though I disagree regarding this thread). It's not an adequate comparison cause MVP is easily top2 classics rider in the world now (and was the best at some point) while Cav, well...

Cavendish has beat Contador on some uphill finishes. They might not have been long or steep but they did go up.

 

[Vinther1991]

If I say Mark Cavendish is a better climber than Contador, this is considered a different opinion from almost the entire forum or is it blatant trolling?

Even If I scream 10x Cav is better than Contador in the mountains and the vast majority of people is saying the opposite, probably I'm wrong.

Just saying.

Well if we are only considering the last 1-3 years, you have an argument.

 

[dobrien]

I don't honestly see the debate. Pog can more than compete with Mathieu in MVDP's specialty, MVDP can't begin to touch Pog in Pog's specialty. Tadej is a favorite at any and every classic he lines up to race, no one else can say that.