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Degenkolb would have gotten taken down by Gaviria had he been in the race, so my vote goes to Degenkolb for sure.
- May 15, 2011
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Sagan, Bouhanni and Gaviria are out of equation, surely. They were not hampered by someone doing something unfair. Mechanicals and crashes are about luck (and sometimes your fault), not about morality.
I don't know enough to conclude if Demare benefited from the help of his team car to the extend that he should be disqualified. If yes, there's no way to say who is the moral winner, because his presence in the final sprint influenced things so much that we can't be sure who would've won otherwise.
I don't know enough to conclude if Demare benefited from the help of his team car to the extend that he should be disqualified. If yes, there's no way to say who is the moral winner, because his presence in the final sprint influenced things so much that we can't be sure who would've won otherwise.
classicomano
BANNED
- May 5, 2011
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I feel for you man, the last few years couldnt have been all that great for you. But im sure he will rise again.SafeBet said:
- Nov 7, 2010
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I wonder if something similar happened to Swift this year - because it was an uncharacteristically great sprint from him.
Interesting that you mention that. Because Degenkolb very, very nearly got taken down in the final 500m last year. I reckon the surge of adrenalin that would have resulted in, gave him the extra boost needed to win the sprint.Hugo Koblet said:
I wonder if something similar happened to Swift this year - because it was an uncharacteristically great sprint from him.
The inrng recap seems to suggest Gaviria's crash was GVA's fault, in which case he has a much stronger case as moral victor.
- Feb 18, 2015
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Normally I would vote "there are no moral winners, this is cycling after all", but in this case I just don't know. Fact is that Demare probably used his team car to get back to the peloton and thats illegal. There are always many people who say "in cycling it doesnt matter how you win, because the question is only if you win, the rest doesnt matter" These people are usually right but here? Can you really say "It doesnt matter how Demare won, only that he won" when the thing he did wasnt something like wheelsucking but something which is simply against the rules. It would be like saying a doper is the moral winner of a race although after the race they found out that he took illegal substances.
Of course in this case we don't even know for sure if Demare really did something illegal but at least its pretty likely.
Then what makes the discussion even more complicated is that Demare influenced the sprint so we can't say who would be the worthy winner but I'd say its between Roelandts and Swift because we don't know if Swift could have overtaken Roelandts without using Demare's slipstream. The rest however weren't really influenced by Demare so I don't see why they should be the moral winners of the race, because here the "it doesnt matter how you win, it only matters that you win" argument suddenly works again.
Of course in this case we don't even know for sure if Demare really did something illegal but at least its pretty likely.
Then what makes the discussion even more complicated is that Demare influenced the sprint so we can't say who would be the worthy winner but I'd say its between Roelandts and Swift because we don't know if Swift could have overtaken Roelandts without using Demare's slipstream. The rest however weren't really influenced by Demare so I don't see why they should be the moral winners of the race, because here the "it doesnt matter how you win, it only matters that you win" argument suddenly works again.
- Feb 23, 2014
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Netserk said:
Demare - nope. He cheated.
Bouhanni - perhaps he could be the moral winner, but if he had been up even closer, he would have deviated from his line, thus being disqualified.
Sagan is always second.
Swift is always second or third.
Roelandts - who's that?
Gaviria is the rightful, moral winner of this race. There were so many doubters on this forum. I knew he'd win his first monument here. Congrats.
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Going by the "logic" of this thread surely we must open up a thread after every single race because the winner isn't the winner if it's not a favourite rider or we don't like the way a rider wins a race eg Thomas at P-N or GVA and T-A.
If there ever was a pointless thread then this is it
If there ever was a pointless thread then this is it
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Not sure about the necessity of this thread, but the circumstances of Demare's victory absolutely does deserve to be scrutinised, and should the evidence indicate that he obtained a sufficiently unfair advantage by holding onto a car, his victory is tainted.
StryderHells said:
Not sure about the necessity of this thread, but the circumstances of Demare's victory absolutely does deserve to be scrutinised, and should the evidence indicate that he obtained a sufficiently unfair advantage by holding onto a car, his victory is tainted.
So Bouhanni beats Swift. Demare beats Swift as well. Big *** hoo. Every decent sprinter beats Swift.
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