Who's made the most out of limited talent?

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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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skidmark said:
Not that he's not talented, but Freire has always struck me as being able to win more bike races with smarts (plus skill, of course) than anyone I've seen in the last ten years. There are guys that had 'lucky' wins (even last year, with Nuyens, Van Summeren, Zaugg and Cobo springing to mind), but I would think of 'making the most' as a continual thing.
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But Freire doesn't belong in this topic. He's smart, yes, but he's also incredibly talented. I think it was Nick Nuyens who said Freire is the most talented rider in the peloton today. Making the most of limited talent almost always involves working very hard. Freire doesn't work very hard, quite the opposite. He trains about half as much as a regular pro.

Basso, as mentioned upthread, seems to be a better example. Although you could consider the right fighting mentality a talent in itself, in which case he is very talented.
 
will10

will10

Dec 27, 2010
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Savoldelli is a great shout, especially in 2005 he didn't put a foot wrong.

Rebellin was always very coy when he got away in a group, never did too much work, always doing just enough and saving his legs for when it mattered.
 
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maltiv

Oct 23, 2009
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Why is everyone saying Sastre? I seem to remember Riis saying that he has tons of natural talent, but wasn't the hardest working guy around. Riis sent him to a lot of races because he didn't thrust him to be able to train enough himself to get in shape. I guess it's mostly because most people still thinks his TDF victory was just based on luck, but come on, the guy was on the podium for three GT's in a row (tdf 08-1st, vuelta 08-3rd, giro 09-2nd).

Pereiro on the other hand...
 
V

Von Mises

Aug 5, 2009
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jens_attacks said:
it's your opinion of course,care to elaborate it?
i think contador is the last guy who belongs here ?even medical,the guy is a freak of nature...plus mental which is way more important in an endurance sport.
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How do you actually know that? How do you know that he is freak of nature? Maybe he is a freak of responder? If he is on "program", how can we credibly evaluate his natural talent? I cant see how...
 
El Pistolero

El Pistolero

Jul 16, 2010
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Von Mises said:
How do you actually know that? How do you know that he is freak of nature? Maybe he is a freak of responder? If he is on "program", how can we credibly evaluate his natural talent? I cant see how...
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Because this isn't the freaking 90s anymore. He got caught for a minimum level of clenbuterol. That's called micro-dosing.
 
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maltiv

Oct 23, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
Because this isn't the freaking 90s anymore. He got caught for a minimum level of clenbuterol. That's called micro-dosing.
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Not really, micro-dosing implies that you have knowingly injected a small amount of a substance to increase performance, 50 picogram isn't even 1% of the amount one would require to have an increase in performance (not that Clenbuterol is effective during a race in that regard). To take such a small dose willingly he would have had to cut a normal clenbuterol drug in about 300 pieces and consume one of them.
 
Cimber

Cimber

Jan 3, 2011
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Would like to throw in Riis. He wasnt really very talented. But he made up for it with hard work and ofc a whole bunch of dope ;)

Otherwise I definately agree with guys like Knaven, Nuyens and I would also like to add Jacky Durand (if u always attack u are bound to get lucky once in a while - but he actually pulled off some big ones)
 
auscyclefan94

auscyclefan94

Jun 16, 2009
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greenedge said:
Christophe Moreau is one who springs to mind.
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i don't exactly agree. I think Moreau was someone who didn't dope or only did the minimal amount of doping and still top 5'd at the tour. I personally think he was a very talented rider who got the most out of himself but was in a time that doping was widespread.
 
Magnus

Magnus

Apr 8, 2010
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The Hitch said:
He made the podium because every rider that could have beaten him crashed. Voeckler Cunego, Tommy D and Peraud were the next riders
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He made the podium because he consistently finished with or slightly ahead (Luz Ardiden, Galibier) of the main-group of GC-contenders in the MTF-stages and did reasonable in the TT (as opposed to the final tt in 2008 where his performance was poor, even by Fränk-standards.)
 
Roninho

Roninho

Jul 28, 2009
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skidmark said:
Not that he's not talented, but Freire has always struck me as being able to win more bike races with smarts (plus skill, of course) than anyone I've seen in the last ten years. There are guys that had 'lucky' wins (even last year, with Nuyens, Van Summeren, Zaugg and Cobo springing to mind), but I would think of 'making the most' as a continual thing.
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With Freire i never know what to think:
Did he get the max out of his talent peaking maybe 5-10 x during his career, but then winning basically everything (wc's, green jersey, classics)

OR

could he have been one of the best ever? He won all these great races but was invisible for like 60-70% of his career due to injuries and i don't know what (i might be wrong, but that's just how i remember his career). When he was fit and in shape he seemed to win a big race. Just imagine him being fit and in shape another 20-30% of his career....
 
Angliru

Angliru

Mar 10, 2009
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boardhanger said:
......all these 'big name stars' how about the underdogs who won Flanders like Jackie Durrand in '92. Or Guedon at Paris Roubaix. Or TDF stage winners like Cedric Vassuer. Or Guys like Abdoujaparov or Tchmil who came from the back end of the Soviet Union. Whats is talent?? pedaling perfectly or being able to come from nowhere and compete while living outa a dark and damp 1 room apartment/or hatchback car like Phil Anderson etc during the 80's....:confused:

p.s need I mention riders who fought in WorldWar I & II coming back from concentration camps and watnot.....competing in the G.T's back then??
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I'm not sure what that has to do with making the most out of limited talent"?
Battling adversity to perform at the highest of heights, yes.
 
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uphillstruggle

Jun 19, 2009
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maltiv said:
. I guess it's mostly because most people still thinks his TDF victory was just based on luck, but come on, the guy was on the podium for three GT's in a row (tdf 08-1st, vuelta 08-3rd, giro 09-2nd).
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He may not of been the strongest in 08 but you only need to look at his time up Alpe d'Huez to confirm the guy is very talented.
 
Ryaguas

Ryaguas

Jun 9, 2010
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Von Mises said:
How do you actually know that? How do you know that he is freak of nature? Maybe he is a freak of responder? If he is on "program", how can we credibly evaluate his natural talent? I cant see how...
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Just check his results in the TT area... A guy who can beat a guy like Cancellara in a TT weighting 10kgs less HAS TALENT...
 
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Von Mises

Aug 5, 2009
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Angliru said:
Clinic please.
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True, this question cannot be answered in this thread.

(And I am not saying that he is not talented (and I sure his name does not belong to this thread), but I am not buying this bs that he is mega-giga-super-duper freak of nature stuff...)
 
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MADRAZO

Nov 6, 2009
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Even with his likely help from the clinic Rolf Sorensen was never the strongest in any races, but still he manged to have a great career and won several classics and even stageraces mostly due to being very smart.
 
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