Who's made the most out of limited talent?

[Squire]

All this talk about Valverde, Ricco and natural talent got me thinking. Who has made the most out of somewhat limited talent?

You have obvious ones like Pereiro.

I remember reading about Sassi describing Basso as the most determined and professional athlete he had worked with, which would indicate that he's not as naturally gifted as, say, Evans (who I think Sassi referred to as one of the most talented riders he had).

I also think you can make a case for Savoldelli. Granted, his descending ability cannot be taught, but he has won two Giros against notably better climbers and TTers (though I have to admit I haven't seen the 2002 Giro). Then again, you would also have to be a good descender to win a GT, otherwise we could've perhaps been talking about Menchov as a winner of all three.

I guess you guys can come up with a lot more cases.

 

[Benotti69]

All this talk about Valverde, Ricco and natural talent got me thinking. Who has made the most out of somewhat limited talent?

You have obvious ones like Pereiro.

I remember reading about Sassi describing Basso as the most determined and professional athlete he had worked with, which would indicate that he's not as naturally gifted as, say, Evans (who I think Sassi referred to as one of the most talented riders he had).

I also think you can make a case for Savoldelli. Granted, his descending ability cannot be taught, but he has won two Giros against notably better climbers and TTers (though I have to admit I haven't seen the 2002 Giro). Then again, you would also have to be a good descender to win a GT, otherwise we could've perhaps been talking about Menchov as a winner of all three.

I guess you guys can come up with a lot more cases.

Way 2 easy, so i'll pass on this one

 

[Cobblestoned]

Way 2 easy, so i'll pass on this one

At least you were able to leave a post that is not directly about HIM

 

[jens_attacks]

carlos sastre,bjarne riis-hard worker type

 

[Magnus]

Olano supposedly had a VO2 max in the mid 60 range.
I'm guessing that makes him a candidate considering his palmares.

 

[the3verB]

Contador.

Protected by UCI. Not more talented than Beloki

 

[Magnus]

Contador.

Protected by UCI. Not more talented than Beloki

I call BS:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-appeals-contador-decision-to-court-of-arbitration-for-sport

What you mean by the Beloki comparison I truly don't get. I believe general consensus is that Beloki didn't get very much out of his talent.

 

[jens_attacks]

Contador.

Protected by UCI. Not more talented than Beloki

it's your opinion of course,care to elaborate it?
i think contador is the last guy who belongs here ?even medical,the guy is a freak of nature...plus mental which is way more important in an endurance sport.

 

[the3verB]

it's your opinion of course,care to elaborate it?
i think contador is the last guy who belongs here ?even medical,the guy is a freak of nature...plus mental which is way more important in an endurance sport.

it was provacting...

Contador is a very talented champion, but his palmares is "flatteur"
He has already 6 GT with 3Tdf (due partially of the fact many GT contenders have been "executed" by UCI/WADA last years) If he continue at the same pace, he will beat the Mercx record of 11GT with maybe 6 or 7 TdF..


But Contador is not Mercx, nor Hinault, nor Armstrong.
He is not a super super champion, best in mountain and best in time trial. He is a very stong climbeur, good time trialist, who has a small marge in GC over the riders who havent been suspended yet.

I find he has optimized his potential very well and... its was the question of the topic.


Voeckler, also, is among its kind of riders!!

 

[El Pistolero]

it was provacting...

Contador is a very talented champion, but his palmares is "flatteur"
He has already 6 GT with 3Tdf (due partially of the fact many GT contenders have been "executed" by UCI/WADA last years) If he continue at the same pace, he will beat the Mercx record of 11GT with maybe 6 or 7 TdF..


But Contador is not Mercx, nor Hinault, nor Armstrong.
He is not a super super champion, best in mountain and best in time trial. He is a very stong climbeur, good time trialist, who has a small marge in GC over the riders who havent been suspended yet.

I find he has optimized his potential very well and... its was the question of the topic.


Voeckler, also, is among its kind of riders!!

Which banned GC men are you talking about?

Basso? He's back and is no where near Contador
Valverde? He's back and was no where near Contador
Klöden? Still here and still sucking in GTs
Leipheimer? Still here
Andy? Still here
Frank? Still here
Ricco? Banned, but Contador beat him without great form at the Giro.

As if Armstrong never lucked out during his winning streak in the Tour Or even Merckx with Luis Ocana and José Manuel Fuente...

 

[jens_attacks]

the3verB is right though.2006-2009 was a horrible time for pro cycling.i hope those times are over.
in fact i guess next year it will be the first year until 2005 in which we'll have no big guns suspended.

 

[the3verB]

Which banned GC men are you talking about?

Basso? He's back and is no where near Contador
Valverde? He's back and was no where near Contador
Klöden? Still here and still sucking in GTs
Leipheimer? Still here
Andy? Still here
Frank? Still here
Ricco? Banned, but Contador beat him without great form at the Giro.

As if Armstrong never lucked out during his winning streak in the Tour

If Basso and Ullrich would have been protected like Contador regarding Puerto Operation, I dont think Alberto would be a GT winner before 2009-2010 (or a TdF winner at least)

Rasmussen
Landis
Leipheimer, Bruynel tell im to serve Alberto in 2007-2008

 

[King Of The Wolds]

How can we define talent?

 

[jens_attacks]

How can we define talent?

nice natural hematocrit,vo2 max and winning bike races since a junior or even a baby,then shining at u-23.then kick aszes in pro ranks.

 

[ElChingon]

Back to the thread...

Servais Knaven: P-R
David Moncoutie:

I have several more but need to go do something...

 

[Zam_Olyas]

ricco thread was moved and this isn't?? sometimes its baffling..and to think that i got an infractions last month for a silly thing i said.

 

[Mambo95]

George Hincapie.

He's been in the sport about 20 years, ridden 16 Tours, supported lots of winners, has his own clothing brand and married a podium girl and I'm not really sure if he has ever been particularly talented.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Back to the thread...

Servais Knaven: P-R
David Moncoutie

I have several more but need to go do something...

Moncoutie is supposed to be one of the most talented riders, thus being able to compete against massivly more enhanced competition.

But of course, we don't know that for sure.

 

[El Pistolero]

If Basso and Ullrich would have been protected like Contador regarding Puerto Operation, I dont think Alberto would be a GT winner before 2009-2010 (or a TdF winner at least)

Rasmussen
Landis
Leipheimer, Bruynel tell im to serve Alberto in 2007-2008

There was no solid proof for Contador and Ullrich never got banned. He was merely not allowed to ride the Tour in 2006, just like Contador. Besides, as if he would have won a GT again after Fuentes was gone

Ullrich said after Armstrong retired he would ride for one or two more years. Basso came back at a still decent age and has proven to be nowhere near Contador. It's not even close the difference between them.

 

[will10]

George Hincapie.

He's been in the sport about 20 years, ridden 16 Tours, supported lots of winners, has his own clothing brand and married a podium girl and I'm not really sure if he has ever been particularly talented.

This thread's about winning stuff though

 

[Panda Claws]

Vansummeren, Nuyens for some recent examples.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Ludo Dierckxsens. A cyclist who was mediocre at best but picked up a national championship and a Tour de France stage by being too stupid to realise when the péloton were taking it easy. And who voluntarily busted himself for doping only for the tests at the time to come back negative.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

All this talk about Valverde, Ricco and natural talent got me thinking. Who has made the most out of somewhat limited talent?

You have obvious ones like Pereiro.

I remember reading about Sassi describing Basso as the most determined and professional athlete he had worked with, which would indicate that he's not as naturally gifted as, say, Evans (who I think Sassi referred to as one of the most talented riders he had).

I also think you can make a case for Savoldelli. Granted, his descending ability cannot be taught, but he has won two Giros against notably better climbers and TTers (though I have to admit I haven't seen the 2002 Giro). Then again, you would also have to be a good descender to win a GT, otherwise we could've perhaps been talking about Menchov as a winner of all three.

I guess you guys can come up with a lot more cases.

Savoldelli is not less talented than most yahoos of the peloton he was riding against.

 

[ElChingon]

Back to the thread...

Servais Knaven: P-R
David Moncoutie:

I have several more but need to go do something...

I left out Jens Voigt.

 

[Magnus]

Ludo Dierckxsens. A cyclist who was mediocre at best but picked up a national championship and a Tour de France stage by being too stupid to realise when the péloton were taking it easy. And who voluntarily busted himself for doping only for the tests at the time to come back negative.

That's funny. I've always thought of Dierckxsens as an underachiever (turning pro at age 30).