Why Alberto Contador will never be a champion for the ages

[Futuroscope]

Champions of the past would never dominate in todays cycling world as they did back then. Riders such as Merckx and Hinault would be champions in this day and age but you wouldn't see the same type of dominance across the board.

Just like Wayne Gretzky dominated the NHL in the 80s he would be the best player in todays game (assuming he was born in 1991 instead of 1961 and was allowed to benefit from the natural progression of the sport) but there would be no 200 point seasons. The average skill level has gone up to such a degree that it would be impossible.

 

[Walkman]

Who else could be expected nowadays to:

1. Win GT by long range solo attack? Vuelta '12
2. Make the WT race "ka boom" just because we wants to check his form? T-A '14
3. Kick all rivals' as@$#% on all MTF during single GT? Giro '11
4. Beat another legend (LA) in the open battle? Tour '09

LOL

Beating a old fraud who peaked 5 years earlier and had been retired for three years is a more accurate description.

 

[HyperMartin]

Perhaps the best way to reach a consensus (if at all possible on an Internet forum) is to tackle the debate piecemeal instead of all in one go.

So let's have a look at the first point of contention: Contador will never be a true cycling legend because of his mediocre classics palmarès.

 

[jens_attacks]

you have to draw line after bernard tapie. it's basically almost another sport nowadays.

 

[Netserk]

2008 Vuelta a España: Once again, time bonuses save the day for Contador.

...

a true cycling legend wins à la pédale, not thanks to time bonuses.

Fabricated lie number 2.

 

[HappyLoser]

LOL

Beating a old fraud who peaked 5 years earlier and had been retired for three years is a more accurate description.

And who finished 3rd there... Nice comeback anyway.

No clinic talk here. LA was competing against many other dopers and he'd beaten all of them 7 times in a row.

 

[Angliru]

Perhaps the best way to reach a consensus (if at all possible on an Internet forum) is to tackle the debate piecemeal instead of all in one go.

So let's have a look at the first point of contention: Contador will never be a true cycling legend because of his mediocre classics palmarès.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. I just don't happen to agree with it.
In my eyes he is a legend, monument/classic win on his palmares or not.

 

[Red Rick]

There hasn't been one rider in the last 20 years who has been dominant in both GT's and classics. The argument is bull****. He'll be a legendary GT racer and climber.

When Armstrong retired, a lot of riders were candidates to take over as the nex big thing in GC racing. Contador beat them al. From 2007 to 2011, he has beaten all the remnants of the Armstrong era, and even Armstrong himself. He also beat the new GT riders like Nibali, the Schlecks, Valverde and more time in time again and the one time he got beaten after crashes, bad luck and an insanely hard Giro, he went out and attacked from 100k out like in the old days. In 2012 he came back from a debatable suspension and he immediately won the Vuelta against Purito, a rider who podiumed all GT's, Valverde, GC threat since 2003 and Froome, a new threat in GT racing.

He overcame life-threatening blood clots and brain surgery to beat all the greats who had their prime in the 21st century. He won 6 Grand Tours in a row and only in the 2005 and 2013 Tour, he did not compete for the win. He won while by being the best, he won by being the smartest and he won by having the most cojones. He destroyed his opposition in the high mountains and in the tt's, and when he couldn't do that, he surprised his oppenent with an attack on a medium mountain 60km from the finish.

He won against everyone in pretty much every imaginable way. And he's not a legend cause he didn't at least win one classic?

 

[HyperMartin]

Fabricated lie number 2.

Final Contador-Leipheimer margin: 46 seconds.

Contador time bonuses: 56" (20" on Angliru and Fuentes de Invierno, 8" in Andorra and Pla de Beret)

Leipheimer time bonuses: 12" (12" on Fuentes de Invierno)

Okay, so I miscalculated by 2 bonus seconds. Shoot me.

The big picture doesn't even change: Contador only finished 2" in real time ahead of Leipheimer, despite Levi working his socks off for Alberto and not being allowed to follow his attacks for fear of helping other riders.

That you have to cling at such trivialities suggests you don't have much of an argument to present.

 

[SergeDeM]

So let's have a look at the first point of contention: Contador will never be a true cycling legend because of his mediocre classics palmarès.

Contador is already a Legend. Every single cycling fan of his era will always remember him. Most regular sport-interested folk will remeber him. Noone will be able to remember a bigger name in cycling from his time.

Legend is not just palmares.

 

[HyperMartin]

Contador is already a Legend. Every single cycling fan of his era will always remember him. Most regular sport-interested folk will remeber him. Noone will be able to remember a bigger name in cycling from his time.

To become a true legend, you need to rank among the best of all time. Being simply better than your contemporaries is not enough.

 

[HyperMartin]

PS: Why are Contador fans so defensive? Their default attitude is to call me a liar and/or a troll.

Someone says Contador wasn't that dominant after all? Must be a troll.
Someone says other riders were better? Must be a troll.
Someone says Contador's competition was weak in certain GTs? Must be a troll.

And it is always thus.

To me, this stinks of fanboyist denial.

 

[SergeDeM]

To become a true legend, you need to rank among the best of all time. Being simply better than your contemporaries is not enough.

And he is. Only six riders have won all 3 GTs. All six of them are therefore legends. There are other ways of becoming a legend (Cipollini) but if a winner of all 3 GT is not one of the best ever then noone is.

Yes, I think Nibali is a legend... How does that one make you feel?

 

[Netserk]

2012 Vuelta a España: He was very clearly not the strongest rider in the race. Very. Indeed, even in the Fuente Dé stage he put very little time into Rodríguez in those parts he was riding alone (about 25" on the climb and a similar amount on the previous flat). Put bluntly, Contador only won the race because his Saxo teammates + Tiralongo took some monstruous pulls for him on the flat. Put bluntly, Tiralongo, Hernández and the other Saxo guy won the race for him. So, while he certainly merits a huge applause for the tactical coup, Contador's win was in no way cycling legend-class. A true cycling legend doesn't need his teammates to win the race for him.

Let's do like you did in other of his GTs and remove bonus seconds.

Here is the GC difference between Contador and Purito after each stage:

Stage #: (name of rider ahead in GC) (time ahead in GC)

Stage 1: Contador 1''
Stage 2: Contador 1''
Stage 3: Contador 1''
Stage 4: Contador 1''
Stage 5: Contador 1''
Stage 6: Purito 18''
Stage 7: Purito 18''
Stage 8: Purito 18''
Stage 9: Purito 30''
Stage 10: Purito 30''
Stage 11: Contador 29''
Stage 12: Contador 21''
Stage 13: Contador 21''
Stage 14: Contador 16''
Stage 15: Contador 16''
Stage 16: Contador 14''
Stage 17: Contador 2'52''
Stage 18: Contador 2'52''
Stage 19: Contador 2'49''
Stage 20: Contador 2'5''
Stage 21: Contador 2'5''

Now you said he only gained 2*25'' on Purito by himself on stage 17 (though it was not like Purito pulled the whole time in his group, so that doesn't make sense) that would mean he would've gained 50'' instead of 2'38'' and therefore loses 1'48''.

Final GC after taking away what Contador gained with his teammates: Contador 17''.

So if you follow through with your previous logic that bonus seconds don't count, Contador did *not* win that Vuelta just because of his teammates. He won it by being better than Purito.

 

[gregrowlerson]

The man is a legend, for he dropped Andreas Kloden without even trying to.

Here endeth the lesson

 

[Netserk]

Final Contador-Leipheimer margin: 46 seconds.

Contador time bonuses: 56" (20" on Angliru and Fuentes de Invierno, 8" in Andorra and Pla de Beret)

Leipheimer time bonuses: 12" (12" on Fuentes de Invierno)

Okay, so I miscalculated by 2 bonus seconds. Shoot me.

The big picture doesn't even change: Contador only finished 2" in real time ahead of Leipheimer, despite Levi working his socks off for Alberto and not being allowed to follow his attacks for fear of helping other riders.

That you have to cling at such trivialities suggests you don't have much of an argument to present.

That you have to cling to lies suggests that you don't have much of an argument to present.

 

[HyperMartin]

And he is. Only six riders have won all 3 GTs. All six of them are therefore legends. There are other ways of becoming a legend (Cipollini) but if a winner of all 3 GT is not one of the best ever then noone is.

Yes, I think Nibali is a legend... How does that one make you feel?

Nibali is my favourite GT rider, but I have no problem admitting he's not a true cycling legend (yet). He won the 2010 Vuelta because the best rider, Antón, crashed out. And he might not have won the 2014 Tour if Froome and Contador had stayed on their bikes.

(PS: See? You can be a fan of a rider without thinking he's the Second Coming of Jesus and calling everyone who disagrees a troll. Wow, amazing, right?)

 

[darwin553]

Simply put, he peaked too early.

 

[HyperMartin]

That you have to cling to lies suggests that you don't have much of an argument to present.

Yeah, because the alleged lie (actually a mistake) changes that much, doesn't it.

"Oh look, it's not true Contador was tied on real time with neutered Leipheimer. He actually beat him by a whopping 2 seconds!"



I suggest you stop digging.

 

[Jagartrott]

PS: Why are Contador fans so defensive? Their default attitude is to call me a liar and/or a troll.

If people become personal with you, it only detracts from any point they were trying to make. It makes them look childish.

People are allowed to be a fan. That doesn't mean that they should start throwing mud around because someone else dares to have a different opinion.

 

[Ferminal]

But what about your favourite, Denis Menchov?

 

[Netserk]

Yeah, because the alleged lie (actually a mistake) changes that much, doesn't it.

"Oh look, it's not true Contador was tied on real time with neutered Leipheimer. He actually beat him by a whopping 2 seconds!"



I suggest you stop digging.

I have dismantled three of your points. You have dismantled none of mine.

I suggest you stop digging.

Edit: if it was only once, it might have been a mistake.....

 

[HyperMartin]

So if you follow through with your previous logic that bonus seconds don't count, Contador did *not* win that Vuelta just because of his teammates. He won it by being better than Purito.

Fair enough. I'll remove that one from the list.

 

[LaFlorecita]

The man is a legend, for he dropped Andreas Kloden without even trying to.

Here endeth the lesson

Nice one

 

[SergeDeM]

Nibali is my favourite GT rider, but I have no problem admitting he's not a true cycling legend (yet). He won the 2010 Vuelta because the best rider, Antón, crashed out. And he might not have won the 2014 Tour if Froome and Contador had stayed on their bikes.

(PS: See? You can be a fan of a rider without thinking he's the Second Coming of Jesus and calling everyone who disagrees a troll. Wow, amazing, right?)

Problem is you're the only one who disagrees with Contador being a legend. He's not my favorite rider and neither is Nibali (I like them all) but it's blatantly obvious that he's one for the ages.

Your issue is that you think only EM and BH deserve the title of legend but you're in a minority of one. Legends are those that make us dream, the ones that make us go back to their footage every now and then (Fuente De deserves multiple viewings), the ones that we get to brag to the children about having the priviledge of having enjoyed in their better days. You don't have to win 10 GTs and miltiple monuments to generate that aura.

PS: Nibali will be a legend for sure when he's done