Why being a VEGAN is too hard for me

[rickshaw]

I can do without eating animals, and I haven't for about 30 years. Its the little things.

As a Vegan you can't use leather. No shoes, belts, purses (not for me of course...) upholstered chairs or couches, coats or jackets, thongs.... none of that stuff. Hemp shoes? I dunno...?

No honey exploits bees) either. Not a big deal except all the "natural" foods seem to put honey in them.

No silk (comes from worms). No more silk ties, shirts, suites (I wish), those silk base layers I use during the in between weather..

Feather / down products, pillows, down coats, vests etc...

Wool. I'm pretty sure wool is on the forbidden list as it is a product of animal exploitation.

guess I'm just weak

sorry

 

[runninboy]

I understand and agree somewhat.
Everything has degree's.
I have friends who are vegetarians and wear leather. Their explanation was that the animal had been dead and was not killed for the hide(cow) so it would be wasteful to not utilize the hide.
I realize it is not the same as vegans but there is a thought process involved, sometimes resourcefulness and respect is just as important as your personal feelings/commitment.
I know people who keep Kosher but will partake in other food in certain social situations they told me there is basically an "out" clause in the religion that allows you to set aside your personal committment in order to not be disrespectful to your host or make them uncomfortable. This was not one persons opinion but the opinion of many i know.
You sometimes put others values ahead of your own as a sign of great respect.
I had contemplated an informative thread on meat, because there are alot of misconceptions perpetuated by people in the culinary world to compensate for offering an inferior product. My uncle was a leader in promotion and used to get extremly angry at things like poor cooking technique used to cover up inferior product. If things were done properly such as only using animals under 2 years old for human consumption there would never be any mad cow for instance because the disease takes years to develop in the animal.
Anyway i have said enough on that , the reason against starting a thread is there are many people who have a revulsion towards the subject. I hold a different view but you should be able to go on a cycling website and not get upset.
If i have ruined someones breakfast i am sorry.Been there done that and i hate when it happens.
Towards happier subjects, i had a friend , lets just call her a Hollywood vegetarian, and i made her dinner one day. Steamed artichokes, black bean salad, brown rice, She loved it.
Her first response though put her "commitment" in perspective. 40 years old vegetarian for 20+ years
"Whats that?"
"An artichoke"
"How did you cook it?"
"Steamed"
"Looks great i never had one, how do u eat it?"
"You pull the leaves out and dip them in this creamy cilantro dressing and do like this "
"MMM delicious"
hard for me to believe that i actually had a broader knowledge of fruits and veg than a vegetarian. But in hindsight i only eat oatmeal for breakfast for the last 20 years so we all gt stick in ruts

 

[Barrus]

I had contemplated an informative thread on meat, because there are alot of misconceptions perpetuated by people in the culinary world to compensate for offering an inferior product. My uncle was a leader in promotion and used to get extremly angry at things like poor cooking technique used to cover up inferior product. If things were done properly such as only using animals under 2 years old for human consumption there would never be any mad cow for instance because the disease takes years to develop in the animal.
Anyway i have said enough on that , the reason against starting a thread is there are many people who have a revulsion towards the subject. I hold a different view but you should be able to go on a cycling website and not get upset.
If i have ruined someones breakfast i am sorry.Been there done that and i hate when it happens.

Really, informative threads are never wrong and you are quite welcome to start one. The problem that this site has with vegan threads is most often due to the creator and the reaction to this person. Most people here would be interested and would try some of the things you would state, many even specifically stated interest in such information, especially if you would include some recipes and the like, you could also do this in the cuisine thread. Only if you do so, please don't include pictures that are not for the squemish and just link to those pictures and videos with a clear warning of their content

 

[Vegan Dave]

I've been vegan over 20yrs, and it's not really 'hard'..yeah, it takes some commitment and sacrifice, but doing anything out of the status quo is the same..

I suppose when people were starting to discuss the end of African-American slavery, people made the argument 'it's too hard'. It was entirely ingrained in our culture, and 100 years ago, people would laugh at the end of human slavery as they do now at the prospect of ending non-human slavery.

Back then, it would have been hard. It would have meant not visiting some friends or associates (because they had slaves.) It would have meant not visiting some stores or restaurants, or boycotting some products (because they were produced by slaves.)

The thing is - the more people who participated in this boycott, the more demand for non-slavery product grew, and the easier it became. We're still not free of human slavery, but it's a fair shake better.

Today, it's a LOT easier being vegan than it was even 20yrs ago, and as more people insist on veganism as part of the status quo, it'll become even more common. Our perseverance will be rewarded...

re: leather, it most cases it is not a 'by-product', but a product. Often leather comes from non-meat cattle, who are raised specifically for the characteristics of their skin.

From the meat industry, i've read that it's estimated that around 10% of their profits come from the sale of the skins as well, so if, say, Cargill is making $10 billion a year, $1 billion is the sale of leather alone - you can't say that this isn't a part of the industry. (No idea what portion of Cargill's income is from cattle, i just picked a number, their annual revenue is well over $100 billion tho, fyi.)

Would love to see this discussion continued in a civilized manner... =)

 

[Boeing]

I can do without eating animals, and I haven't for about 30 years. Its the little things.

As a Vegan you can't use leather. No shoes, belts, purses (not for me of course...) upholstered chairs or couches, coats or jackets, thongs.... none of that stuff. Hemp shoes? I dunno...?

No honey exploits bees) either. Not a big deal except all the "natural" foods seem to put honey in them.

No silk (comes from worms). No more silk ties, shirts, suites (I wish), those silk base layers I use during the in between weather..

Feather / down products, pillows, down coats, vests etc...

Wool. I'm pretty sure wool is on the forbidden list as it is a product of animal exploitation.

guess I'm just weak

sorry

you can't yous the expensive condoms

 

[rickshaw]

I learned something new!

you can't yous the expensive condoms

Expensive condoms made from animal parts? Kinky.

Gelatin / from animal bones cartelige etc. is in many many "food" products, like marshmallows.

Beer and wine are often fined / clarified with isenglass, is made from swim bladders of fish. If you drink "craft beer" you can ask the brewery, the big factory brewers won't tell.

Vitamines / food suplements. "A" "E" often from fish oils, B vitamines animal derived. The Glucosamine stuff I used to take for joints is made in most cases from shellfish waste.

The stuff you use in the garden, none meal, fish emulsions, etc...

And pet food. For some very strict folks that matters.

It goes on and on. A mine field.

You can be a dumb vegetarian (me), but you can't be a dumb Vegan

 

[lostintime]

I can do without eating animals, and I haven't for about 30 years. Its the little things.

As a Vegan you can't use leather. No shoes, belts, purses (not for me of course...) upholstered chairs or couches, coats or jackets, thongs.... none of that stuff. Hemp shoes? I dunno...?

No honey exploits bees) either. Not a big deal except all the "natural" foods seem to put honey in them.

No silk (comes from worms). No more silk ties, shirts, suites (I wish), those silk base layers I use during the in between weather..

Feather / down products, pillows, down coats, vests etc...

Wool. I'm pretty sure wool is on the forbidden list as it is a product of animal exploitation.

guess I'm just weak

sorry

You can be any kind of "Vegan" you want to . If you feel stuck in definitions brother, don't use the words! They're just labels.

Don't want to consume animals but your shoes have a piece of leather on them? sigh .... think for yourself. Don't let another's definition define you. Or let it. Your choice. It's always been your choice.

 

[runninboy]

I've been vegan over 20yrs, and it's not really 'hard'..yeah, it takes some commitment and sacrifice, but doing anything out of the status quo is the same..

I suppose when people were starting to discuss the end of African-American slavery, people made the argument 'it's too hard'. It was entirely ingrained in our culture, and 100 years ago, people would laugh at the end of human slavery as they do now at the prospect of ending non-human slavery.

Back then, it would have been hard. It would have meant not visiting some friends or associates (because they had slaves.) It would have meant not visiting some stores or restaurants, or boycotting some products (because they were produced by slaves.)

The thing is - the more people who participated in this boycott, the more demand for non-slavery product grew, and the easier it became. We're still not free of human slavery, but it's a fair shake better.

Today, it's a LOT easier being vegan than it was even 20yrs ago, and as more people insist on veganism as part of the status quo, it'll become even more common. Our perseverance will be rewarded...

re: leather, it most cases it is not a 'by-product', but a product. Often leather comes from non-meat cattle, who are raised specifically for the characteristics of their skin.

From the meat industry, i've read that it's estimated that around 10% of their profits come from the sale of the skins as well, so if, say, Cargill is making $10 billion a year, $1 billion is the sale of leather alone - you can't say that this isn't a part of the industry. (No idea what portion of Cargill's income is from cattle, i just picked a number, their annual revenue is well over $100 billion tho, fyi.)

Would love to see this discussion continued in a civilized manner... =)

that seems pretty high. we sell primarily seedstock cattle to other producers to make their herd better so we dont do much on the retail end.When we have had animals processed we always did at a small local locker where they do the job on a small scale and it is much more humane. Anyway for the typical animal( trying to be respectful here) the producer never sees any money for the hide. I asked about it once and the meat lockers would sell the hide for 40 dollars i think. They factored that into how much they charge someone to process and store.
On a large scale i could see Cargill or some of these other behemoths making some good money on hides but not 10 percent. A finished animal that is processed is around 1000 to 1500 dollars in cost, I have no idea what the "profit" would be on that to the processor once they box package & ship.

 

[rickshaw]

I've been vegan over 20yrs, and it's not really 'hard'..yeah, it takes some commitment and sacrifice, but doing anything out of the status quo is the same..

Would love to see this discussion continued in a civilized manner... =)

Good viewpoint. Non-riders are always telling me how "hard" it is to go up hills. i try to communicate the feeling of accomplishment as my (pathetic) ability gets greater. They never get it.

Yeah, so maybe the "accomplishment" of being a Vegan has its own rewards.

Finding a restaurant that is Vegan "friendly" is certainly an accomplishment.

 

[Vegan Dave]

You can be any kind of "Vegan" you want to . If you feel stuck in definitions brother, don't use the words! They're just labels.

Don't want to consume animals but your shoes have a piece of leather on them? sigh .... think for yourself. Don't let another's definition define you. Or let it. Your choice. It's always been your choice.

The term "vegan" was coined in 1944 to describe a very particular movement, born out of frustration from the inconsistencies often found (and brought up i this thread) by vegetarians. At the time, vegetarians said 'we don't want to contribute to the death of animals', but were increasingly eating eggs and dairy, which of course DO contribute directly to the deaths animals (the male chicks who are born are generally just snuffed out, and male calves end up as veal, since they can't produce milk. And, of course, when either hens or cows have a reduced production, they're also sent off to be killed.)

Veganism is defined as "a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose." So no, you don't get to just 'do what you want' if you're going to call yourself 'vegan'. If someone doesn't agree with this philosophy, then i don't know why they'd want to call themselves 'vegan'...??

 

[Vegan Dave]

runninboy - perhaps i should have written 'as high as 10%', regardless, who here would turn down even 1% of $10 billion? The point is, it's still profiting the industry, and not just some 'unwanted by-product'.

rickshaw - thanks, and i agree....going uphill fast also requires a particular amount of sacrifice and commitment! I'm not interested in shrinking down that much, so i'll stick to the flats.

As a funny side-note, i'm a bit bigger than many of my cycling peers, and NEVER hear the 'skinny vegan' stereotype, which is doubly-funny given how most cyclists want to be as skinny as possible. Just can't get it right! =P

 

[runninboy]

runninboy - perhaps i should have written 'as high as 10%', regardless, who here would turn down even 1% of $10 billion? The point is, it's still profiting the industry, and not just some 'unwanted by-product'.

rickshaw - thanks, and i agree....going uphill fast also requires a particular amount of sacrifice and commitment! I'm not interested in shrinking down that much, so i'll stick to the flats.

As a funny side-note, i'm a bit bigger than many of my cycling peers, and NEVER hear the 'skinny vegan' stereotype, which is doubly-funny given how most cyclists want to be as skinny as possible. Just can't get it right! =P

Fair point Dave, any amount of the huge profit they rake in would be a large sum. Your point about finding vegan establishments sounds familiar. I worked with a company doing work around Germany and pre internet this one girl had worked really hard to research and find vegan alternatives in the cities we would visit. She worked quite awhile and her entire list could easily fit on one sheet of notebook paper. Because i never had to go through it i didn't realize all those little "additives" that make things harder. Like restaurants stretching cooking oil by adding animal fat etc etc.
Still you are making a conscious decision and if you consume something unknowingly if it doesn't compromise your health it would be ok wouldnt it? Like if you found out later that instead of olive oil they brushed your grilled eggplant with butter, you might be ticked off but you could still return again and say"please don't use any butter, olive oil only, thank you"

 

[durianrider]

I find it easy to be vegan. Sure there might be an ant's leg stuck in the disk drive of my macbook but its about doing the basic things.

My specialized Toupe is pleather.
My custom cycling shoes are lorica.
My cycling jersey is recycled coke bottles.

These days there are so many better products to use instead of silk, wool, leather. We have such advance recycling companies etc. Leather is actually an inferior product thesedays. Hemp is better than wool and better for the planet. Bamboo is even better. Ive got another bamboo bike in the post as we speak.

People think if they are vegan for 20 years and then whilst washing their bike, they find a dead fly on their Super six downtube, that they are a hypocrite.

Vegan is a way of living. Its easy. Relax and have fun doing it.

 

[TexPat]

I can do without eating animals, and I haven't for about 30 years. Its the little things.

As a Vegan you can't use leather. No shoes, belts, purses (not for me of course...) upholstered chairs or couches, coats or jackets, thongs.... none of that stuff. Hemp shoes? I dunno...?

No honey exploits bees) either. Not a big deal except all the "natural" foods seem to put honey in them.

No silk (comes from worms). No more silk ties, shirts, suites (I wish), those silk base layers I use during the in between weather..

Feather / down products, pillows, down coats, vests etc...

Wool. I'm pretty sure wool is on the forbidden list as it is a product of animal exploitation.

guess I'm just weak

sorry

Damn, is that Bootsie Collins in your avatar? Leather guitar strap and a diaper is a dead giveaway. He definitely ain't no vegan. And I've seen George Clinton go to town on some pork ribs and collard greens.
The Funkadelic is not vegan.

 

[Martin318is]

My specialized Toupe is pleather.
My custom cycling shoes are lorica.
My cycling jersey is recycled coke bottles.

Actually, this raises an interesting issue thats worthy of discussion in this context. I was going to write a lot of verbage but I'm sorry I dont have time so will go with the shorter introduction to the idea. Simply:

a) A leather seat directly hurts the cow it came from and secondarily other cows by keeping the market for such leather going.

b) Fake leather, Lorica, Lycra, PET, etc hurt no animals directly, however secondarily they are produced using very harmful practises that directly harm the environment and (I suppose I have to say Tertiarily?) in the longer term sustain markets for oil based materials that do MASSIVE damage to the environment.

Given the goal of Veganism to not harm animals, how do modern Vegans reconcile themselves with these issues (which did not really exist back when 'Vegan' was coined)?

 

[TexPat]

Actually, this raises an interesting issue thats worthy of discussion in this context. I was going to write a lot of verbage but I'm sorry I dont have time so will go with the shorter introduction to the idea. Simply:

a) A leather seat directly hurts the cow it came from and secondarily other cows by keeping the market for such leather going.

b) Fake leather, Lorica, Lycra, PET, etc hurt no animals directly, however secondarily they are produced using very harmful practises that directly harm the environment and (I suppose I have to say Tertiarily?) in the longer term sustain markets for oil based materials that do MASSIVE damage to the environment.

Given the goal of Veganism to not harm animals, how do modern Vegans reconcile themselves with these issues (which did not really exist back when 'Vegan' was coined)?

+1 for the sake of relativism, I agree.
Still, eat what you want.
On moral grounds in a rather simplistic way, I agree with some assertions made by the cult of veganism and it's less fundamentalist vegetarian brethren about industrial farming. I was in fact a vegetarian for two years, and still find the way that meat is produced (there's a loaded term) morally reprehensible.
But, I am not Ted Nugent, and cannot see myself strapping a bow to my bike and heading off to the bush for tomorrow night's flesh. I need meat.

 

[Martin318is]

Any CN vegan willing to answer my question?

 

[Polyarmour]

Actually, this raises an interesting issue thats worthy of discussion in this context. I was going to write a lot of verbage but I'm sorry I dont have time so will go with the shorter introduction to the idea. Simply:

a) A leather seat directly hurts the cow it came from and secondarily other cows by keeping the market for such leather going.

b) Fake leather, Lorica, Lycra, PET, etc hurt no animals directly, however secondarily they are produced using very harmful practises that directly harm the environment and (I suppose I have to say Tertiarily?) in the longer term sustain markets for oil based materials that do MASSIVE damage to the environment.

Given the goal of Veganism to not harm animals, how do modern Vegans reconcile themselves with these issues (which did not really exist back when 'Vegan' was coined)?

I think your references to MASSIVE damage are completely misplaced. The "MASSIVE damage" to which you refer is overwhelmingly being caused by motor vehicles and livestock, not vegan products. Do vegan products ever rate a mention at the International Panel for Climate Change meetings? No. To put it in perspective think of your own car. If you fill it up with fuel just once per week then you are probably creating 4-5 tonnes of CO2 emissions every year. If you buy a few plastic shoes and a few lycra outfits each year there would be a small amount of embodied energy which might create a couple of kgs of CO2 emissions if you're lucky. Bear in mind that embodied energy exists in the non vegan equivalent products too.

Furthermore, livestock is responsible for 51% of worldwide CO2 emissions. Vegans are not responsible for the livestock market, meateaters are. If you added up the individual carbon emissions of a meateater vs a vegan, the vegan would be way in front.

 

[soOpOSMthanks!]

Quitting veganism is so not vegan. Quitting makes you an animal/earth hater too.

 

[Martin318is]

If you are going to grab 3 words out of my post to get incensed and misdirect on, here is a subset of yours that is easily quotable

To put it in perspective think of your own car. If you fill it up with fuel just once per week then you are probably creating 4-5 tonnes of CO2 emissions every year. If you buy a few plastic shoes and a few lycra outfits each year there would be a small amount of embodied energy which might create a couple of kgs of CO2 emissions if you're lucky. Bear in mind that embodied energy exists in the non vegan equivalent products too.

So by that logic - why not eat an egg now and then? I mean... there are so many other people doing it that one egg won't show up in the scheme of things will it?

I didn't ask my question in an attacking fashion, so how about you try to not be so defensive and just try answering it? Nobody is going to bite your head off. (certainly not the other vegans anyway! )


Seriously though, I asked a very valid question and your answer has if anything demonstrated that there is a clear potential conflict there that Vegans need to deal with on an individual basis.

So, the question stands, how do vegans rationalise the damage that using a synthetic product does in place of an animal byproduct?

 

[TexPat]

Especially when present emissions and environmental problems are products of this industrial age (and it ain't all cows, fellows)! The population explosion in the last hundred years has rendered the whole agrarian utopia obsolete.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm pretty much a vegetarian, and have tried vegan and raw diets. Never lasted more than a month for reasons the OP posted. I also tend to agree with Martin's comment on natural resources and pollution.

For me a bottom line is do what you can to help make the world a better place - be that eating low meat, no meat, no animal products, using no animal products, or using less petroleum products, less resources etc. Do whatever it is that you can do.

But don't give yourself an ulcer over what you can't do or aren't doing right now. That's not going to help either.

 

[rickshaw]

Amen A+

I'm pretty much a vegetarian, and have tried vegan and raw diets. Never lasted more than a month for reasons the OP posted. I also tend to agree with Martin's comment on natural resources and pollution.

For me a bottom line is do what you can to help make the world a better place - be that eating low meat, no meat, no animal products, using no animal products, or using less petroleum products, less resources etc. Do whatever it is that you can do.

But don't give yourself an ulcer over what you can't do or aren't doing right now. That's not going to help either.

Consciousness and awareness are the watchwords for me. I try: to eat what I do consciously; to make informed choices; never assume I have arrived at any ultimate truth

appologies if this sounds preachy

 

[rickshaw]

Glue!!

I had to re-glue a tea caddy the other day. Took the glue bottle out of its storage spot.... It is made from animal hides.

Guess I should have read the label when I bought it years ago.

 

[durianrider]

I had to re-glue a tea caddy the other day. Took the glue bottle out of its storage spot.... It is made from animal hides.

Guess I should have read the label when I bought it years ago.

Its rare that glue contains more animal products than casein (a protein that is abundant in dairy and used in wood glue for its naturally adhesive properties aka lung binding).

Ive been vegan for coming up 10 years now. Its like being a cyclist. I make it fun and easy for me to do it. Its not about being perfect and crying every time you accidentally step on an ant or wash a fly off your downtube. Its about setting yourself up for wins each day and in every way. Its about making conscious choices that feel good in your heart and taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture.

Its about making your life count and doing your bit for your health, the animals and the planet.

I went out training with some triathletes this morning in Bilambil area. I blew em away on the main climb and waited at the top for everyone to regroup. We all got chatting and one rider pointed to my powertap hub and said "whats that? a motor?" I said "yes, its a motor and adds another 200watts to your functional power threshold, I mean, did you honestly think a vegan could ride that fast up a hill like that?"

Our triathlete friend said 'I guess that makes sense cos you went up that hill so bloody fast! but isnt that cheating having a motor on your bike?' I said 'but Ive got a protein deficiency and I need assistance cos Im a longtime vegan'. Eventually some of the other riders started ****ing themselves with laughter and our friend realised it was a joke and got a bit ****ed!

Some people will believe anything I guess. That a Vegan lifestyle is hard and that powertap hubs are actually bike powering motors.