Why do you dislike Armstrong?

[Lajeretta4Ever]

I use to like him but don't after reading the WSJ article. The dude is total scum. He takes his team to a strip bar, and there is no mention of him buying a lapdance for Floyd. He probably made them pay the cover charge. What a cheapskate.

 

[SpartacusRox]

'Andy let me help you with your introduction here......... you said 'possible wrong doings of the guy".... and you have lurked,for longer than the existence of the forum? ...... "Possible"?


If you can name other riders who have:

Suggested to clean riders to leave the peloton
Has made numerous (or any) 'donations' to the UCI
Chased down a non threatening rider who vaguely implicated him
Uses Dr Ferrari as a 'trainer'.
Writes books proclaiming how clean they are
On the podium of the TdF talks about 'Im sorry you can't believe in miracles"
Or make adverts like this.
Or avoids questions like this.

These may be reasons why Mr Armstrong enjoys extra negative attention from those that love this sport.

Actually Andy I like him because he was and still is actually , a great rider, because his success got people to take up cycling, because he was/is a real personality, which although polarizing brought back some pizazz to the sport, because he speaks his mind, because he is a 'take no sh!t kind of guy, because his tactical nous made others look like amateurs, because he just kicked *** in the mountains, because of the time that he gives towards fighting cancer when he could just as easily do nothing and live off his millions and perhaps last but not least is that he has an uncanny ability to get up the noses of a lot of regular posters on here.

The really funny thing is that Armstrong is not unpopular, in fact he is probably the most popular person in the sport to the vast majority of people who watch cycling. He is not unpopular in the peloton either and I know for a fact that all but a very few hold him in high regard. Where he is unpopular is on these forums, but this is not a microcosm of reality it is rather an aberration. The vitriol that is poured out on here towards Armstrong far and away exceeds any nastiness he has exhibited to others over the years and certainly the yardstick that he is measured against is rarely used on other riders. Tall poppy syndrome is endemic on here.

On the positive side it does give certain people a safe environment in which to vent and even though Armstrong is effectively retiring again, I am sure the current investigations will have posters on here frothing at the mouth for months if not years to come. Firstly while the legal proceedings run on and then later they will be able to rail against the fact that nothing came of it in relation to Lance and the injustice of it all.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Ferminal]

Actually Andy I like him because he was and still is actually , a great rider, because his success got people to take up cycling, because he was/is a real personality, which although polarizing brought back some pizazz to the sport, because he speaks his mind, because he is a 'take no sh!t kind of guy, because his tactical nous made others look like amateurs, because he just kicked *** in the mountains, because of the time that he gives towards fighting cancer when he could just as easily do nothing and live off his millions and perhaps last but not least is that he has an uncanny ability to get up the noses of a lot of regular posters on here.

The really funny thing is that Armstrong is not unpopular, in fact he is probably the most popular person in the sport to the vast majority of people who watch cycling. He is not unpopular in the peloton either and I know for a fact that all but a very few hold him in high regard. Where he is unpopular is on these forums, but this is not a microcosm of reality it is rather an aberration. The vitriol that is poured out on here towards Armstrong far and away exceeds any nastiness he has exhibited to others over the years and certainly the yardstick that he is measured against is rarely used on other riders. Tall poppy syndrome is endemic on here.

On the positive side it does give certain people a safe environment in which to vent and even though Armstrong is effectively retiring again, I am sure the current investigations will have posters on here frothing at the mouth for months if not years to come. Firstly while the legal proceedings run on and then later they will be able to rail against the fact that nothing came of it in relation to Lance and the injustice of it all.

I agree, I like my champions flawed, but maybe not as much as Lance.

 

[Anonymous]

Reported, ignored.

Toodles psycho!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Actually Andy I like him because he was and still is actually , a great rider, because his success got people to take up cycling, because he was/is a real personality, which although polarizing brought back some pizazz to the sport, because he speaks his mind, because he is a 'take no sh!t kind of guy, because his tactical nous made others look like amateurs, because he just kicked *** in the mountains, because of the time that he gives towards fighting cancer when he could just as easily do nothing and live off his millions and perhaps last but not least is that he has an uncanny ability to get up the noses of a lot of regular posters on here.

The really funny thing is that Armstrong is not unpopular, in fact he is probably the most popular person in the sport to the vast majority of people who watch cycling. He is not unpopular in the peloton either and I know for a fact that all but a very few hold him in high regard. Where he is unpopular is on these forums, but this is not a microcosm of reality it is rather an aberration. The vitriol that is poured out on here towards Armstrong far and away exceeds any nastiness he has exhibited to others over the years and certainly the yardstick that he is measured against is rarely used on other riders. Tall poppy syndrome is endemic on here.

On the positive side it does give certain people a safe environment in which to vent and even though Armstrong is effectively retiring again, I am sure the current investigations will have posters on here frothing at the mouth for months if not years to come. Firstly while the legal proceedings run on and then later they will be able to rail against the fact that nothing came of it in relation to Lance and the injustice of it all.

Strange how you quoted my post - yet didn't answer the question it asked - to the highlighted above, please name some other riders who did what LAnce has.

All pro cyclists are great riders.
But Armstrongs athletic acomplishments that you admire came out of a syringe - send your admiration to Dr. Ferrari, not Lance.

You also appear to be unable to distinguish between popular with recognised - Lance is the most recognised person in the sport not popular.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Sock puppets talking to sock puppets about sock puppets.

I need to be a moderator. Or maybe just a member with a "lock thread now" button to click.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You really thought those questions were unanswerable when you wrote them, didn't you.

Then go ahead and answer it BPC - or do you have a TT to go to?

 

[ThaiPanda]

I take it you didnt really understand I was merely stating a fact? and not representing a wish to change human nature?
Thought not.

WTH are you talking about? A "fact" that sport is "inherently unfair" because some people have better attributes that enable them to beat other people? Just what is your definition of sport and competition? Why it is unfair if somebody wins because they are better?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

You really thought those questions were unanswerable when you wrote them, didn't you.

Yet again BPC you fail - I only asked one question, "If you can name other riders who have:".

Which of course you didn't answer.

 

[Race Radio]

Troll babble
That's your religion. No serious person who understands the context of pro-cycling believes that though. If a bit troll babble

Perhaps on the local century rides and triathlon that you participate this is a prevalent misconception but amongst most in the sport it is well understood that Ferrari, and his needles, are the key factor in Armstrong's success.

 

[Ferminal]

Perhaps on the local century rides and triathlon that you participate this is a prevalent misconception but amongst most in the sport it is well understood that Ferrari, and his needles, are the key factor in Armstrong's success.

You're overlooking cadence, hard work, training, recon, miracles, hog's tactical mastery etc

 

[Quickfix]

Awe, that's cute, an internet tough guy. Put a douchebag on your helmet and I will roll up to you sweetie.

***edited by mod ***

 

[Ferminal]

I explained that this is because other riders don't have the same scrunity. Can you name me another rider that has won seven tours?

If you really believe there are no grudges and deals in the peloton then you don't know much about cycling.

Public Strategies put LeMond under plenty of scrutiny.

 

[sars1981]

The real thing I notice about this thread is that it's obvious that Lance-lovers have all but given up defending the possibility of him being a clean rider. The focus has moved on to "why do you hate him so much", "they're all dopers", "he's very popular", "he deserves a Nobel prize for his charity" etc, etc. This is a tacit admission of defeat.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I explained that this is because other riders don't have the same scrunity. Can you name me another rider that has won seven tours?

If you really believe there are no grudges and deals in the peloton then you don't know much about cycling.

Merckx won 11 GTs - Hinault won 10 GTs.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually Andy I like him because he was and still is actually , a great rider, because his success got people to take up cycling, because he was/is a real personality, which although polarizing brought back some pizazz to the sport, because he speaks his mind, because he is a 'take no sh!t kind of guy, because his tactical nous made others look like amateurs, because he just kicked *** in the mountains, because of the time that he gives towards fighting cancer when he could just as easily do nothing and live off his millions and perhaps last but not least is that he has an uncanny ability to get up the noses of a lot of regular posters on here.

The really funny thing is that Armstrong is not unpopular, in fact he is probably the most popular person in the sport to the vast majority of people who watch cycling. He is not unpopular in the peloton either and I know for a fact that all but a very few hold him in high regard. Where he is unpopular is on these forums, but this is not a microcosm of reality it is rather an aberration. The vitriol that is poured out on here towards Armstrong far and away exceeds any nastiness he has exhibited to others over the years and certainly the yardstick that he is measured against is rarely used on other riders. Tall poppy syndrome is endemic on here.

On the positive side it does give certain people a safe environment in which to vent and even though Armstrong is effectively retiring again, I am sure the current investigations will have posters on here frothing at the mouth for months if not years to come. Firstly while the legal proceedings run on and then later they will be able to rail against the fact that nothing came of it in relation to Lance and the injustice of it all.

You know, I understand everything you are saying. The reality is that much of the "hatred" is directed more at people who defend Armstrong. In an adversarial environment like a cycling forum, hyperbole and vitriol. I would suggest that people from both sides of the debate exhibit a pretty equal amount of said vitriol.

Me, I just don't like a bully. It really does all come down to that. I really never was a huge fan. I still remember watching him win the stage after Casartelli died (while he was pointing to the sky making a big show of it) and thinking that he was a person who approximates emotions as a facade. I am no psychologist, but that was what I felt about his show. Then, the day he chased down Simeoni after having berated everyone about not being a doper, told me all I needed to on a psychological level.

I don't like the guy. What I would like to see more than anything is for him to come clean. I don't think that will happen, and in the absence of that, wouldn't mind seeing him suffer legal consequences. The LAF is not a bad thing, but to say he gives a lot of time to the organization is an unproven statement. There is a board of directors and other people employed by the foundation, and what I see him do is charge a lot of money to talk about cancer. Meeting with Bono may seem like he is doing something, but the actual work of the organization is done my many unnamed people.

All that being said, you like him and I don't. I am pretty sure neither of us will change the opinion of the other. Honestly, when he goes away, I will not shed a tear, and will still follow cycling as closely as I always have. I don't know if you will or not, but cheers if you do.

 

[Anonymous]

Come on wannabe, come on out and play, no internet on Rehobeth, let's see what ya got BOY! Go back to school little one, study hard so you don't fail again! Perhaps the Booty Loop is more your speed - I'll even meet you there, but we both know you're an internet poser that really doesn't even own a bike!

Only Pussies talk of douches!

I sent you a PM. Should you like to meet, lets arrange that. I'll have to do it off the bike for at about 4 more weeks, but I am up for a non bike meeting.

As for failing, I will tell the scholarship committee to take back their $10,000 per year. I guess they should have consulted someone with an outstanding level of intellect such as yourself before awarding me the money.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Look what the manager of Armstrong's main rival during many of his wins has admitted to a few weeks ago....

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4811/Pevenage-admits-Ullrich-doped-visited-Fuentes.aspx

Of course, we all know Armstrong is a fraud who only won by using a needle. We're really honest people.

Nice article BPC....

I especially enjoyed this:
Pevenage said that he remains convinced that Ullrich was physically stronger than Lance Armstrong, but the German was unable to match the American in the Tour. He described his metamorphasis after cancer as “so extraordinary.”

 

[sars1981]

The real thing I've noticed on the forum is people repeatedly making this point without actually citing anyone who said he never doped in the first place. In the trade it's called a straw man.

Ahh good I'm glad youre admitting he's a a doper. When even the fanboys are admitting this, I consider the battle nearly won. All that's left is for the UCI and perhaps a magistrate to admit it. The clock ticks!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Fans of cycling understand 'tour' to mean the tour de france. But the mind boggles as to what they're be saying about Merckx on twitter in those days.

Whilst we're on Merchx, who many believe was the greatest cyclist of all time, do you believe someone like him believes Armstrong is a fraud? Or does he understand the deal and considers Armstrong a fellow great?

I think you know the answer - he does indeed consider Armstrong a great. Now why would that be?

You are correct, my sincere apologies for not going along with your tight "7 Tour wins" to bypass the question.

Now that I understand your rules -may I ask can you name a bigger fraud and not nice person who has won seven straight Tours? Thanks.

Merckx introduced Armstrong to Dr Ferrari - he knows he is a fraud.

 

[Hawkwood]

Merckx won 11 GTs - Hinault won 10 GTs.

And Merckx's strike rate was pretty good as well:

Giro - rode 8, won 5
Tour - rode 7, won 5
Vuelta - rode 1, won 1

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Right, I've had a good run. Guess I've have to retire before a control catches me!

A typical BPC run - which is don't answer questions.

What username should we expect tomorrow?
How about 7/11, name of a former cycling team and the ratio of Armstrong/Merckx GT wins.

 

[sars1981]

I saw an argument between some Jerry Springer caliber idiots the other day. It went like this:

Mindless Fanboy: "Lance is the best!"

Hater: "Lance is a doper and fraud. When he gets caught you will have no hero!"

Mindless Fanboy: "Yes I will! I will still smile every time I am reminded that an American owns the record for most victories in Europes most prized race. I am grinning ear to ear just thinking about it!"

Hater: "An American only own the most records because America has the most sophisticated doping technologies!"

Mindless Fanboy: "nonsense you French ***#got! Can't wait to kick your asses at the next Olympics. We beat you at every sport except soccer which is a total fa#s game!"

Really, this is often what is at the heart of it all.

 

[Ferminal]

I saw an argument between some Jerry Springer caliber idiots the other day. It went like this:

Mindless Fanboy: "Lance is the best!"

Hater: "Lance is a doper and fraud. When he gets caught you will have no hero!"

Mindless Fanboy: "Yes I will! I will still smile every time I am reminded that an American owns the record for most victories in Europes most prized race. I am grinning ear to ear just thinking about it!"

Hater: "An American only own the most records because America has the most sophisticated doping technologies!"

Mindless Fanboy: "nonsense you French ***#got! Can't wait to kick your asses at the next Olympics. We beat you at every sport except soccer which is a total fa#s game!"

Really, this is often what is at the heart of it all.

How incorrect, everyone knows that Michele Ferrari is an Italian 7 time Tour champion