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Why do you dislike Armstrong?

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Apr 21, 2009
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sars1981 said:
I saw an argument between some Jerry Springer caliber idiots the other day. It went like this:

Mindless Fanboy: "Lance is the best!"

Hater: "Lance is a doper and fraud. When he gets caught you will have no hero!"

Mindless Fanboy: "Yes I will! I will still smile every time I am reminded that an American owns the record for most victories in Europes most prized race. I am grinning ear to ear just thinking about it!"

Hater: "An American only own the most records because America has the most sophisticated doping technologies!"

Mindless Fanboy: "nonsense you French ***#got! Can't wait to kick your asses at the next Olympics. We beat you at every sport except soccer which is a total fa#s game!"


Really, this is often what is at the heart of it all.

This is totally incorrect and rude to our American sports heroes.


















The US soccer team played much better than France at the World Cup. :D
 

ThaiPanda

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Dr. Maserati said:
A typical BPC run - which is don't answer questions.

What username should we expect tomorrow?
How about 7/11, name of a former cycling team and the ratio of Armstrong/Merckx GT wins.

:D

This was an interesting read. This seven guy was really busting you guys up pretty bad. No offense, but when people trot out the troll card it usually means they are losing the argument.
 

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ThaiPanda said:
:D

This was an interesting read. This seven guy was really busting you guys up pretty bad. No offense, but when people trot out the troll card it usually means they are losing the argument.

BPC is a troll - they have been banned at least 100+ times at this stage, yet keep coming back every day around the same time.

I know some questioned the 100+ figure - they had gone through around 60 or 70 usernames until last month and then the mods got cracking down on them, over the last number of weeks they have reaapeared often going through 3 or 4 usernames a day.

I asked one question - and as always did not get a reply.

A better question for ANDY1234 - why do some people vigourously defend a rider who they believe (& often admit to that) is a doper and a fraud?

Actually -I appreciated SpartacusRox post - even though I would question many of the points they raise.
 
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ThaiPanda said:
:D

This was an interesting read. This seven guy was really busting you guys up pretty bad. No offense, but when people trot out the troll card it usually means they are losing the argument.

:D

When some new guy defends BPC, you know he is a loser.
 
Jul 17, 2010
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Had to chime in. Living in Austin, I've never thought much of the guy. He's crapped on a whole lot of folks, both here and elsewhere. But I recall when he brought Heras aboard to help him win le Tour, and he said after the win that he would return the favor by helping Roberto win the Giro - of course, he didn't.

And if you think he was right up there with the rest of the tour riders in the mid-90s, check out his gaps in the mountain stages in the '95 Tour. Compare that with his 99 and later performances, and no wonder people were talking about "two speeds."

BTW, does anyone have the late '95 issue of Velonews, the one with the story on him and Julie Furtado being named Velonews cyclists of the year? There was a sidebar interview with Lance where he was asked about Motorola's poor results that year. Lance replied that they (Motorola) would have to look at making some changes to their program to be competitive, as everyone else had gotten a lot faster. I believe at the time of the interview he had already visited the good doctor.
 

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Thoughtforfood said:
:D

When some new guy defends BPC, you know he is a loser.

I'm not defending him. I'm just saying from where I am sitting he was working you guys over pretty good. No need to get all defensive. Peace. :cool:
 
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ThaiPanda said:
I'm not defending him. I'm just saying from where I am sitting he was working you guys over pretty good. No need to get all defensive. Peace. :cool:

I guess that is because you have no clue who you are posting about. Maybe keep it in your pants next time until you do. All he did was the same thing he does every time, post nonsense and pretend it is substantial, and then he gets banned again because he is nothing but a troll. Nobody is pulling out that title for any other reason than it is exactly what he is. Stick around long enough, and you will see. Till then, you will look kind of ridiculous defending him or suggesting that he is getting anything over anyone.
 

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Dr. Maserati said:
.
A better question for ANDY1234 - why do some people vigourously defend a rider who they believe (& often admit to that) is a doper and a fraud?
.

I can guess because they think he is no worse than the others he beat that were doped as well. Doper and fraud are terms that can be spread widely over the peloton. So, taking that into account people can rationalize their biases.

I work with a guy that thinks its a waste of money like SparticasRox. It is a common thought, especially in the US where there is no such thing as sporting fraud laws. Those things are handled by the respective sports. It is not the same thing as using government money to either buy PEDs or continue to receive it by fraudulent activity. TBH, Armstrong didn't do anything more to USPS than Ullrich did to Telekom, or Basso did the CSC. He just had the wrong sponsor, and some people have some sympathy towards that and call BS because of their mindset. Doesn't make it right, but their opinions are real to them.
 
ThaiPanda said:
:D

This was an interesting read. This seven guy was really busting you guys up pretty bad. No offense, but when people trot out the troll card it usually means they are losing the argument.

No one responds to him because everyone puts him on ignore as soon as we spot him. He knows that but continues to ramble on, alleging that no one is responding when, in fact, no one can even see what he is saying.
 

ThaiPanda

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Thoughtforfood said:
I guess that is because you have no clue who you are posting about. Maybe keep it in your pants next time until you do. All he did was the same thing he does every time, post nonsense and pretend it is substantial, and then he gets banned again because he is nothing but a troll. Nobody is pulling out that title for any other reason than it is exactly what he is. Stick around long enough, and you will see. Till then, you will look kind of ridiculous defending him or suggesting that he is getting anything over anyone.

OK, I have no quarrel with you. I feel your anger coming through the internets, jumping out of my screen and scaring me. :eek:
 

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MacRoadie said:
No one responds to him because everyone puts him on ignore as soon as we spot him. He knows that but continues to ramble on, alleging that no one is responding when, in fact, no one can even see what he is saying.

OK, OK, I get it. Heck, I was accused of being this guy the other day. It's like carpet bombing new people. He's really got you people shook up, so much I am catching all kinds of shrapnel for saying he was getting the better of an argument, which is my OPINION. I see the trauma he has caused you guys so I will be more sensitive to that next time. Sorry.

BTW, if he was on ignore then why all the replies, which prompted my opinion about the state of the scrum?
 
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ThaiPanda said:
I can guess because they think he is no worse than the others he beat that were doped as well. Doper and fraud are terms that can be spread widely over the peloton. So, taking that into account people can rationalize their biases.

I work with a guy that thinks its a waste of money like SparticasRox. It is a common thought, especially in the US where there is no such thing as sporting fraud laws. Those things are handled by the respective sports. It is not the same thing as using government money to either buy PEDs or continue to receive it by fraudulent activity. TBH, Armstrong didn't do anything more to USPS than Ullrich did to Telekom, or Basso did the CSC. He just had the wrong sponsor, and some people have some sympathy towards that and call BS because of their mindset. Doesn't make it right, but their opinions are real to them.

And that is fine. I would suggest a couple of differences to him and the people you cite.

1. Neither of them ever beat everyone over the head with how much dope he didn't use. Methinks the lady doth protest too much, and I always did.

2. Neither of them aggressively pursued those who opposed his narrative in an effort to silence and hurt them on a personal level.

I have have said many times, it isn't about the doping. It is about the things he has done to hide that, and his prostitution of cancer for his selfish purposes. Show me the commercial with either Basso or Ulrich where they uses images of cancer patients with a voice over that talks about how they aren't a doper. People have cancer and it is sad = Lance didn't dope is a disgusting equation and one that entitles the person using such a rhetorical device anything that happens to them. He prostituted cancer patients. That makes him much less than a bad guy.
 
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ThaiPanda said:
OK, I have no quarrel with you. I feel your anger coming through the internets, jumping out of my screen and scaring me. :eek:

Some people mistake bluntness for anger.
 
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ThaiPanda said:
OK, OK, I get it. Heck, I was accused of being this guy the other day. It's like carpet bombing new people. He's really got you people shook up, so much I am catching all kinds of shrapnel for saying he was getting the better of an argument, which is my OPINION. I see the trauma he has caused you guys so I will be more sensitive to that next time. Sorry.

BTW, if he was on ignore then why all the replies, which prompted my opinion about the state of the scrum?

I never quoted a single post, nor responded to anything he wrote. Some did, and I am not sure why they do? He isn't here to discuss anything. He is here to troll. You seem pretty worked up about all of this yourself. Why are you so concerned with him?
 
Seven Straight said:
Wow, I'm still here.

My first post directed to Dr Maserati answered EVERY SINGLE ONE of his questions. There is no question I have not answered. But because I could not cite a name for ONE of his answers, giving him instead the context that Armstrong's activities are document far more than other riders and it is well known that deals and grudges go on in the peloton, he pretends he did not get an answer And of course, the old "troll" assertion.

Yes it does indeed mean you are losing the argument when you have to resort to something you know is not true. I'm not banned for trolling, I'm banned for being banned before.

Pretty crappy tactics Maserati. Perhaps you weren't counting on people being able to read the thread for this long? Huh?

At least you do engage a little bit in argument rather than old bulging forehead vain guy.

Rofl, Dr. Mas asked for names, in your "reply" you couldn't provide one name for the individual questions, let alone one name which qualified for all.
 
SpartacusRox said:
He is not unpopular in the peloton either and I know for a fact that all but a very few hold him in high regard.

I do not know that he is "liked"; while he was respected when at the top, it will be interesting to see how much he is liked and respected when he tries for a break later in the race. If it gets shut down, we can probably close the book on "he is not unpopular and is held in high regard".

As Vaughters said, whenever anyone gets close to him, something goes haywire. The same is probably true in the mass of the peloton as well.

-dB
 
Seven Straight said:
It was you that dodged the question by pretending I was talking about GTs and not tours.

You're the one who sets up these straw man questions - "give us the name of another person who did precisely what Armstrong did", and such like, but you don't like it when I throw it back "give us the name of who won seven tours".

Nobody has won seven tours in the glaring spot light of the modern age and internet.

But I was happy to talk about the Eddie Merckx diversion. Merckx considers Armstrong a true great in the same league as himself. Now why would that be? What do you know that he doesn't? No answer from you, of course.

Are you suggesting that winning seven TdFs pardons a person from the following:

Suggested to clean riders to leave the peloton
Has made numerous (or any) 'donations' to the UCI
Chased down a non threatening rider who vaguely implicated him
Uses Dr Ferrari as a 'trainer'.
Writes books proclaiming how clean they are
On the podium of the TdF talks about 'Im sorry you can't believe in miracles"
Or make adverts like this.
Or avoids questions like this.
 
Seven Straight said:
Yes, I've just dealt with that. Not thinking that anyone would be able to answer any of his questions, and realising he stuffed up on a few of them, like asking if Dr Ferrari had ever worked with another rider and said Armstrong had written books about denying dopoe, he focused on the one answer where I provided context rather than a specific name.

It's a straw man game he often plays. Haven't you seen it before? All he would say to some other guy was "what are the names of the people in the hospital room"? It's a tactic of his. Well it's not very impressive.

I guess he's not used to people calling him out.

Now, go and ask him why he did not answer any of my points (calling them drivel and saying I'm a troll doesn't count)

It's not a strawman at all, they are genuine questions as to why he does not appreciate Armstrong. If you could show that Armstrong was not alone then perhaps Doc would soften his dislike.

As was written in another thread, we can only form our opinions on "knowns", there are plenty of "knowns" relating to Armstrong and just because there may be more "unknowns" in relation to other cyclists it doesn't mean Armstrong is off the hook.
 
Seven Straight said:
The fact that he is chased down shows you how much he is respected. Young riders also want to make a name for themselves, to be the guy that beat Armstrong that time he tried to breakaway and win a stage.

That's sport.

I think you'd have to be blind not to recognise he is a hero to most of the guys in the Tdf.

I think you have to be blind to think he's anything but the old broken down guy they need to beat, and whose shadow of doping accusations is hanging over all of them in an uncomfortable way.

Explain to me in the alternative, in that he's lost nearly 20:00 over the last week, how being let go in a break would prove this "respect" -- is there any action that would falsify the claim that he is respected by the peloton? If not, we are left with unsupported claims. I don't take public statements of "respect" as anything but PR posturing.

Reports say the crowds around the Shack bus are way down, following the path down the GC rankings. I suggest his level of "respect" in the peloton is following a similar trajectory.

-dB
 
Seven Straight said:
Another straw man. Now proclaim you have won when I don't spend time digging out quotes from riders saying they appreciate Armstrong.

Actually there is a good one from AC on the day Armstrong was dropped.

You guys aren't really into the spirit of this debating thing, are you. At least you're doing me the decency of quoting me though - old control freak boy hates when you do that.

You made an inference with no evidence, I think it's safe to say that your claim is false.
 

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Seven Straight said:
Another straw man. Now proclaim you have won when I don't spend time digging out quotes from riders saying they appreciate Armstrong.

Actually there is a good one from AC on the day Armstrong was dropped.

You guys aren't really into the spirit of this debating thing, are you. At least you're doing me the decency of quoting me though - old control freak boy hates when you do that.

AC was ragging him. You don't think it kills LA to have AC giving him sympathy?