Why Dont Pros get Tired?

[BigBoat]

I chose this forum on purpose and hope it directs any response that it may receive.

If I had just finished a 3 week training cycle as hard as the tdf, I would be extremely irritable, would not be sleeping properly and would be exhausted. What is it about the pros training that allows them to be out partying tonight and racing again on tuesday?

Pro riders DO NOT get as tired as often as they did before testosterone, HGH, IGF-1, insulin, female hormones, Deca Derabolin, Stanozolol, Tren enanthate, Tren Acetate, EPO, Cow blood.

 

[the truth.]

it is a question i often ask pros.
How do your legs not feel just destroyed on the 6th day in the Alps.

"tired, but after the first hour come round"

never really got a sufficient answer

 

[dominicsavio]

the simple answer

its easy to know why! Pro's do get tired but it is their only job- they have good food, good training methods, good attention from their helpers after races. Anyone who works at another job and cycles in between would not be able to do it.-a feature in pro cycling some 10 years ago explained this.

 

[beroepsrenner]

By the time you reach pro level you have usually had many years of conditioning and for at least 10 months of the year you are riding almost every day unless you are travelling. This is a job its not a hobby and believe me they do get tired, its just that they recover quickly due to the services at their disposal within the team structure. Not sure about nowdays but there was never a lot of partying going on during the racing season unless it was celebrating a big victory. Tom Boonen is an exception of course

 

[biker77]

This is a fair question for the clinic. Do you agree that people who have just finsihed the TDF should be physically exhausted? Or no, it is possible to finish the tdf and go out for a few beers? Are pro-cycling parties similiar to an octagenerians christmas do?

Tongue-in-cheek beroepsrenner, what are the "services" that the pros have at their disposal?

 

[tubularglue]

"The way this spectacle is going...We could be watching a dying business."

http://debatableland.typepad.com/the_debatable_land/2007/05/the_confessions.html

"The cycling industry just didn't think much of this was terribly important and that cycling should continue to be a law - and more importantly a culture - unto itself."

 

[dienekes88]

it is a question i often ask pros.
How do your legs not feel just destroyed on the 6th day in the Alps.

"tired, but after the first hour come round"

never really got a sufficient answer

I've spoken with ex-pros, pros, and national level racers... and the answer is always the same as you've mentioned. Actually, I've had a similar experience even though I'm just a cat. 2. You kick your leg over the bike, and the legs feel like an absolute disaster. You just start pushing those cranks, and the body responds to the mind's prodding. You get better at it the more you do it.

I doubt there's much research done on this, and if there has been research done, I doubt most bike racers know about any of it.

To compare yourself to someone who is levels and levels beyond you is ridiculous. I may actually be closer in ability to a domestic pro than a domestic pro is to a guy going to battle in the Tour de France.

 

[beroepsrenner]

I've spoken with ex-pros, pros, and national level racers... and the answer is always the same as you've mentioned. Actually, I've had a similar experience even though I'm just a cat. 2. You kick your leg over the bike, and the legs feel like an absolute disaster. You just start pushing those cranks, and the body responds to the mind's prodding. You get better at it the more you do it.

I doubt there's much research done on this, and if there has been research done, I doubt most bike racers know about any of it.

To compare yourself to someone who is levels and levels beyond you is ridiculous. I may actually be closer in ability to a domestic pro than a domestic pro is to a guy going to battle in the Tour de France.

There is a huge difference between having sore legs and being generally tired.
You often finish a stage with sore legs but with massage and a good nights rest you normally recover by the next morning and if you are still feeling it a bit you usually come good after 50 to 100 ks of racing.
Tiredness is a different condition completely and is an indication that you need to back off with your schedule of racing and/or training until you are sufficiently recovered to step it up again. Elite athletes have a high tolerence to pain and fatigue generally and mostly it is a case of mind over matter. You just push through it and sooner or later you come good again. Even the best cyclists have flat patches from time to time and PEDs dont even come into the equation.

 

[beroepsrenner]

This is a fair question for the clinic. Do you agree that people who have just finsihed the TDF should be physically exhausted? Or no, it is possible to finish the tdf and go out for a few beers? Are pro-cycling parties similiar to an octagenerians christmas do?

Tongue-in-cheek beroepsrenner, what are the "services" that the pros have at their disposal?

I knew someone would jump to the wrong conclusion with that comment.
I was referring to the team soigneurs. These guys are invaluable to a professional cyclist especially during a stage race. You can climb off the bike and be half dead but by the time you have had a good massage you can feel completely new again. A good one can tell how you are by what he feels through yor muscles and knows what to do to push out the lactic acid and soften them up again. He usually has a suit case full of creams and special remedies for just about any ailment you may have. Yes they used to be the dispensors of all things illegal as well but I think that todays doping is way over the heads of these guys. These days with the bigger budgets the teams employ their own doctors and chiropractors etc to ensure that riders are in peak condition. Physical condition is constantly monitored with training and racing adjusted to cope with peaks and troughs in performance.

 

[BigBoat]

With IGF-1 or HGH tiredness during stage races for the top pro guys is all but eliminated as long as they are also jacked at 59% with blood doping. As the other poster mentioned being an amateur cat 2 rider is much different if you are on not medication and doing a stage race.

A normal rider will have much slower, and much "heavier" sensations 5 days into a race then a JACKED Tour rider on some heavy $hit like ACTH, testosterone, etc. Basically its like not having a turbo charger, or being supercharged versus having it. Sustainable power is less, and average racing intensity is higher % of threshold due to this. More damage is done during the stage race, and recovery from that damage is slower.

 

[blackcat]

they are not jacked at 59 anymore, they get chaperoned after stages when tested, no one tests at 59.

They do however, have the gross hemoglobin and O2 carrying capacity, like Pantani and Riis' day, otherwise, how do Contador and Andy Schleck climb the way they do?

 

[beroepsrenner]

With IGF-1 or HGH tiredness during stage races for the top pro guys is all but eliminated as long as they are also jacked at 59% with blood doping. As the other poster mentioned being an amateur cat 2 rider is much different if you are on not medication and doing a stage race.

A normal rider will have much slower, and much "heavier" sensations 5 days into a race then a JACKED Tour rider on some heavy $hit like ACTH, testosterone, etc. Basically its like not having a turbo charger, or being supercharged versus having it. Sustainable power is less, and average racing intensity is higher % of threshold due to this. More damage is done during the stage race, and recovery from that damage is slower.

I often wonder how you come to be so knowledgable on the subject of doping???
Many people interested in cycling come to this forum to gain knowledge of the sport, yet to read your posts alone many of these people must go away thinking that all pros dope and thats the only reason that they are so good. I have tried to address this thread with some genuine insights into what goes into recovering from the fatigue of constant racing at pro level and all you do is continually quote doping data that would mean nothing to most pro cyclists themselves. Its no wonder the layman is left with the belief that its all about dope only.

 

[blackcat]

I often wonder how you come to be so knowledgable on the subject of doping???
Many people interested in cycling come to this forum to gain knowledge of the sport, yet to read your posts alone many of these people must go away thinking that all pros dope and thats the only reason that they are so good. I have tried to address this thread with some genuine insights into what goes into recovering from the fatigue of constant racing at pro level and all you do is continually quote doping data that would mean nothing to most pro cyclists themselves. Its no wonder the layman is left with the belief that its all about dope only.

I dont think that is right BR.

I think most here, taking alot of BB stuff with only a grain of truth.

But if we are truthful, know one here knows if it is most riders doping, or just a substantial part of the peloton. I think it oscillates, between the two poles, depending on the year, and the back channel messages from the UCI, and crackdowns. These last two years, I think it shifted for the worse.

 

[beroepsrenner]

I dont think that is right BR.

I think most here, taking alot of BB stuff with only a grain of truth.

But if we are truthful, know one here knows if it is most riders doping, or just a substantial part of the peloton. I think it oscillates, between the two poles, depending on the year, and the back channel messages from the UCI, and crackdowns. These last two years, I think it shifted for the worse.

What you say is true but there is a whole lot more to cycling than just doping. Too many people get on here and try to explain everyones performance or lack of from a doping perspective as if nothing else even matters. I have been involved in cycling all my life and there is so much that could be talked about in the clinical forum than just illegal substances. Some of the questions I have tried to address from an insiders perspective are genuine attempts by by newbies to the sport to gain knowledge yet inevitably someone will jump on to it turn it into a doping debate.

 

[blackcat]

start some new threads, sure we are interested in some interesting anecdotes of yours.

thanks BR

 

[dienekes88]

What you say is true but there is a whole lot more to cycling than just doping. Too many people get on here and try to explain everyones performance or lack of from a doping perspective as if nothing else even matters. I have been involved in cycling all my life and there is so much that could be talked about in the clinical forum than just illegal substances. Some of the questions I have tried to address from an insiders perspective are genuine attempts by by newbies to the sport to gain knowledge yet inevitably someone will jump on to it turn it into a doping debate.

I hear where you're coming from. I think there are a few characters who push the doping agenda more than others. It's falling on a very receptive crowd, because very few people understand the differences in ability, determination, and mental strength between individuals.

 

[beroepsrenner]

start some new threads, sure we are interested in some interesting anecdotes of yours.

thanks BR

Ok. I'll give that some thought and come back to you

 

[BigBoat]

they are not jacked at 59 anymore, they get chaperoned after stages when tested, no one tests at 59.

They do however, have the gross hemoglobin and O2 carrying capacity,

That is not totally true. The UCI takes urine samples from the riders but blood cannot be taken for atleast 2 hours post racing. The Chaperone doesnt mean $hit for for that length of time, thats in my opinion.

Now I agree with you blackcat, but the UCI need to spend an hour having coffee with the Astana team staff while the riders are out back. Their blood doping with their own blood and hemodiluting every morning like before . If you follow cycling for some time you notice things never really 'change'. Di Luca came into the 2009 Giro blood doping with his own blood and using guess what, CERA to keep his rectics up.

Certainly there are other 02 carrying hemoglobin drugs. You cannot put out 6.5 watts per kilo at FTP or in Contra-dopers case 6.8 with just autologous blood doping. But that gives the biggest bang. If you put somebody on JUST hemopure and HGH they might not get top 25.

 

[TheArbiter]

But they do get incredibly tired - so tired that they're not even nervous anymore. They will still feel it in the legs a week after the tour has finished, but if they have other events lined up then they will keep doing. They are paid to turn up and will simply go through the motions for the most part.

I don't think they will be overdoing it at the after party. A couple of beers and off to bed for most of them.

 

[BigBoat]

But they do get incredibly tired - so tired that they're not even nervous anymore. They will still feel it in the legs a week after the tour has finished, but if they have other events lined up then they will keep doing.

I don't think they will be overdoing it at the after party. A couple of beers and off to bed for most of them.

They do get 'tired' out to some degree. It depends on how heavily doped they are and other genetic factors. I remember Lance once saying at the end of the Tour (the final road stage) he felt like he could keep doing that for another week at the same level. I'll try and dig that interview up later.

Not 100% all are doped though, and if anything most of them only 'train' 4 days a week, the other 3 are for recovery rides or an off day. But the 'load' one can take on HGH, IGF-1, slin is a lot higher than what somebody can do clean. It might take a clean rider 5 days to recover from a 7 hour ride up a moutain and back home, somebody like Lance that is totally JACKED and a super responder to drug therapy might be ready to do it again the next morning. Which is F-d up big time.

 

[TheArbiter]

The very elite guys who the top cyclists in the world, so of course they get into a rythme. They will still be extremely tired. What they generally mean is they feel less tired than other riders, so could go on beating them for another week.

Now that they have blood passports I don't believe most of the riders are doped. It's now at the margins.

 

[BigBoat]

Now that they have blood passports I don't believe most of the riders are doped. It's now at the margins.

All who finished the Tour were on something like HGH or IGF-1. But many teams cant blood dope even their top couple of riders. The gains from recovery drugs is still significant. Its doping.

 

[biker77]

How hard does the last guy have to work to beat the time limit on a tdf mountain stage?

 

[TheArbiter]

Like I said, they do get incredibly tired and run down. This from an interview with Bradley Wiggins in today's British Guardian newspaper...

"...Wiggins talks about feeling so poorly, with his depleted body no longer able to fight the sniffles, sore throat and muscle-eating fatigue that followed his drastic weight-loss and ravaged immune system. He shed 20 pounds before the Tour started so that he could swap his power on the track for a skeletal lightness in the mountains. It is just one consequence of his epic tilt at sporting greatness. "I've been running at 4% body fat the last few weeks – and that's quite dangerous. I'm starting to get sick now, a little ill, just from being run down. I'm just glad I'm now free to put a few pounds back on."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/aug/04/bradley-wiggins-interview-donald-mcrae

 

[scribe]

That's a great article. Thanks for posting that.