Why I will always be a "fanboy" and proud of it

[Dr. Maserati]

Lots is being made of this .org vs. .com livestrong stuff, but FWIW, I've never heard of anyone who thought that by buying a nike branded "livestrong" product they were supporting cancer research or anything, so I fail to see any confusion. Peopley buy those products either a) to associate themselves with Lance like they would by buying a shirt with their favorite sport teams logo on it, or b) to show some connection to a personal/family fight against cancer - not a financial fight, but just support the concept of "living strong against cancer" in their lives.

I personally think even the for profit livestrong brand has been tremendously valuable in raising awareness about cancer, lessing the disease stigma, improving people's lifestyles in hopes of them not getting cancer in the first place, increasing conversation about cancer (that increases people's donations to cancer organizations overall) and getting politicians to act as well ("lots of my constituents are wearing that livestrong crap so maybe i can score points by voting for a cancer initiative...).

But all of this really should be separate from anything Lance has done as a cyclist/doper. Unless it can be shown that he used his cancer activities in order to get the authorities to overlook positive doping tests or something like that. Otherwise, it's just stuff he does off the bike and shouldn't really be part of the discussion.

The way you distinguish the .com from the .org should be reason enough to see why people can confuse the brand as a charity.

To the highlighted point - that would be true, except it is Armstrong himself who does not separate the issues - when asked on doping/cycling, he will bring up cancer.

A quick example is from his interview in Vanity Fair announcing his comeback, in 2008.

Armstrong recognizes that the European press may very well be laying in wait for him, hoping he’ll fail. “I didn’t go out of my way to make friends with the French media,” he says. “In fact, I was combative. I was unavailable, arrogant, and I was that way to a lot of them. Anybody who wrote a negative article: Done. Never speak to them again. I won’t do that this time. I mean, these daily or weekly [phone conferences]? Everyone’s invited. From the bitterest of rivals I’ve ever had in the pressroom: Get on call. If you’ve got a question, ask it.… They’ll realize that I’m not messing around.” The difference this time, he says, is that he won’t be flaunting his Americanism in their faces. “The constituency that I represent,” he says, “is now cancer survivors.”

 

[stephens]

I don't see why that bothers you. It's not exactly using cancer to cover up doping tests. Sure, there is a connection between cancer, ego, and money for Lance: doesn't mean that he can't promote all at the same time. After all, all CEOs of charities get paid, right? And the most successful charities are those that use the tactics of business, not those that remain pure grassroots.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't see why that bothers you. It's not exactly using cancer to cover up doping tests. Sure, there is a connection between cancer, ego, and money for Lance: doesn't mean that he can't promote all at the same time. After all, all CEOs of charities get paid, right? And the most successful charities are those that use the tactics of business, not those that remain pure grassroots.

Never said it botherd me - I merely pointed out that it is Lance who brings up cancer as you said this earlier...
"But all of this really should be separate from anything Lance has done as a cyclist/doper."

You're right, it should.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

Thank you for the sentiment, Herr Brecht

Unhappy is the man who needs a hero
Pity the man that has found one.

 

[straydog]

Unhappy is the man who needs a hero
Pity the man that has found one.

Wise men make proverbs, but fools repeat them.

"Do you google?"....well done!

 

[CycloErgoSum]

I'm a reader

 

[Race Radio]

Never said it botherd me - I merely pointed out that it is Lance who brings up cancer as you said this earlier...
"But all of this really should be separate from anything Lance has done as a cyclist/doper."

You're right, it should.

The first thing Armstrong says when questioned is "I have done a lot of good". Making exploitive commercials like this only reinforce that he uses cancer to avoid questioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VfiXAaEQiY

 

[CycloErgoSum]

The first thing Armstrong says when questioned is "I have done a lot of good". Making exploitive commercials like this only reinforce that he uses cancer to avoid questioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VfiXAaEQiY

First his denials were angry, then comments like "I have done a lot of good" and "I won't participate in a witch hunt" are expressions betraying guilt and bargaining.
Soon he'll be depressed. Is that why no twitter?

A good psych can read him like a cheap novel.

 

[straydog]

I'm a reader

And if any of that reading has included any of the plays of Bertolt Brecht, then I am sure you will appreciate that Gallileo actually says: "Unhappy is the land that needs a hero" in response to the statement; " unhappy is the land that breeds no hero"....

"Quoting: the act of repeating erroneously the words of another..."

And since you have read some of his plays, i am sure you aslo understand the nature of a flawed heroe very well without my input.



And "need" in my post was italicised....but yes I probably should have put it in "quote"-ations.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

Teach me, I need you like you need...oh nevermind.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

and please stop talking to me

 

[CycloErgoSum]

I have zeroe need for a heroe, Neroe

 

[Anonymous]

Your first paragraph....I agree....a point well made.

Find for me another rider....Landis...remember the late night calls to Greg?....Roche very vocal in his "cleanliness", and in his reaction and threatened litigation to Kimmage....The entire Festina team (and a significant proportion of the then peloton) with Bassons....I could go on and use plenty of examples of those who reacted in a "bullying" manner to people who had "spat in the soup"....so yes....I certainly do not single LA out.

You have to come up with a gaggle of people to equal the efforts of one man. Thanks for making my point!

I am also offended at the lies and deceit he has used in regards to his cancer efforts.....how exactly do you think he has used lies and deceit in his effort to raise cancer awareness?....and surely the salient point is that he is raising cancer awareness....An admirable endeavour surely?.

This maybe: http://www.livestrong.com/

That there is a for profit site that gets 8x the number of visitors. (he used to just have the .org) I wonder if they know it goes to buy things like this:

I call someone like that scum. Pond scum.

He uses other people's cancer to deflect doping accusations....He reacted to kimmage calling him a "cancer" to cycling....do you really think anyone with any direct experience of cancer would not react to that expert piece of "trolling"? That deliberately insulting use of the word "cancer"? i don't think that is deflection....I think it is called being genuinely p*ssed off.

I have direct experience with cancer and it didn't offend me. I think it is called a metaphor.

Now, look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VfiXAaEQiY

Sorry, it is hard to find the message of "cancer awareness" in that commercial. Maybe it is subliminal or something? To me it looks like a douchebag using images of suffering people to justify his life. That is deliberately using the suffering of cancer patients. I find Kimmage to be much less offensive. He used a word. Armstrong used cancer patients.

....who SET HIMSELF UP as the biggest name in the sport....who hasn't gone into competitive sports and not hoped to make a name for themselves?

And RR...Phillippe is too modest to respond to my babble....

I am sure he is very grateful for your wise contribution and defence....His CV sounds mightily impressive....I am especially jealous of the frequent flyer points....that must make him very knowledgeable and worthy of your adoration....and he even does the occasional sportif in France and Belgium? Until you mentioned them I had never heard of those countries, let alone taken the three hour trip from my home in london to visit them.

He saw his first road race before i was born?....that dude must be very very old....his posts make more sense now that you have put them in context....i will try to be more patient with him in future

And after saying all that RR....I apologise, but i am going to have to add you to my ever growing ignore list....not because your "babble" about the things you know about me, has upset me....or even been risible....cos at least then i would have been laughing....but simply, because I find your input into any discussion genuinely tedious to read.

He was a European pro...unlike you. You could also then surmise that he knows what he is talking about. You? Not so much.

 

[Anonymous]

Straydog, I agree with some of your points, not so sure on some of the others...

I think you are making a mistake engaging with some of these guys. They are commenting on something that may as well be taking place on Mars, given the actual contact they have had with the subject matter.

This obviously does not apply to all the posters on the thread, but for those it does, leave them to it.

......I'm just going to find myself a baseball forum to crash. A couple of DVDs and wikipedia should be all I need to get myself up to speed.....

Oh sorry, I was not aware that you were a Pro Tour rider...

 

[Anonymous]

The .com is for personal enrichment. The .org is for raising awareness of the Armstrong myth and paying for jet fuel.

In the combined audit report of the livestrong family of charities the 2009 travel expenses total almost $2 million ($1,922,995). For comparison, the National Cancer Coalition, with 5 times as much money raised on the most recent tax form, only claimed $108,559 in travel expenses

Great minds think alike.

 

[Anonymous]

The first thing Armstrong says when questioned is "I have done a lot of good". Making exploitive commercials like this only reinforce that he uses cancer to avoid questioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VfiXAaEQiY

X2..................

 

[Anonymous]

And if any of that reading has included any of the plays of Bertolt Brecht, then I am sure you will appreciate that Gallileo actually says: "Unhappy is the land that needs a hero" in response to the statement; " unhappy is the land that breeds no hero"....

"Quoting: the act of repeating erroneously the words of another..."

And since you have read some of his plays, i am sure you aslo understand the nature of a flawed heroe very well without my input.



And "need" in my post was italicised....but yes I probably should have put it in "quote"-ations.

Look everyone: Google

 

[CycloErgoSum]

I call someone like that scum. Pond scum./QUOTE]

I'd go as far as calling him a pigeon-toed SOB as well. He shoulda tried football. They also have a taste for EPO.

 

[andy1234]

Oh sorry, I was not aware that you were a Pro Tour rider...

That's ok. I wasn't, but I was an international amateur, and then worked for a pro tour team

 

[Anonymous]

That's ok. I wasn't, but I was an international amateur, and then worked for a pro tour team

What is the term I am looking for...hmm......no, not that....AHH YES!!...wanna-be! Yea, that is what I was looking for. Funny, your comment made it seem like you were in a position to know what you are talking about.

 

[straydog]

You have to come up with a gaggle of people to equal the efforts of one man. Thanks for making my point....brevity.

Find for me another rider who is as vocal about his cleanliness who has also bullied people in the manner he has in an effort to hide it.....You asked for another rider....I provided another 2 plus a fair few others in the peloton


I have direct experience with cancer and it didn't offend me...ok and i have no desire to offend you now, so I will reverse the following question onto myself....If someone on this forum referred to me as a "cancer" on this forum,would i find it offensive?....Yes i would........but then maybe you believe that my direct experience of cancer is something else I have made up for the internet

Great minds think alike....oh dear god....I have actually found some of your posts on other threads interesting and genuinely funny....please don't tar yourself with his brush....

 

[CycloErgoSum]

I fear the words 'never-was' and 'right back at ya' are going to appear soon

 

[andy1234]

What is the term I am looking for...hmm......no, not that....AHH YES!!...wanna-be! Yea, that is what I was looking for. Funny, your comment made it seem like you were in a position to know what you are talking about.

We were all wanna bees at some point, otherwise we wouldn't have been doing it. I'm terribly disappointed that you wanted someone with more experience, but why don't we compare records offline and see where we stand?

 

[Anonymous]

Find for me another rider who is as vocal about his cleanliness who has also bullied people in the manner he has in an effort to hide it.....You asked for another rider....I provided another 2 plus a fair few others in the peloton


I have direct experience with cancer and it didn't offend me...ok and i have no desire to offend you now, so I will reverse the following question onto myself....If someone on this forum referred to me as a "cancer" on this forum,would i find it offensive?....Yes i would........but then maybe you believe that my direct experience of cancer is something else I have made up for the internet

Great minds think alike....oh dear god....I have actually found some of your posts on other threads interesting and genuinely funny....please don't tar yourself with his brush....

Again, you have to put together a number of people who have combined to do the things a single man has done.

Past that, the one thing I will give you is this: You recognize and do not hide from the fact that Armstrong did what he did, and you are still a fan. Honestly, I can respect that because the world is a big place, and has lots of people. My opinions are mine, and if the world believed and acted the way I wanted, I would be happy...possibly. Hey, for you, his efforts in the area of cancer are laudable. I have known a lot of other people who I admire much more, who also have done much in terms of cancer philanthropy. I admire them because of who they are however, not what they did. I BELIEVE (yes, I recognize the subjective nature of that word) his primary motivation in any endeavor is self aggrandizement. Do the ends justify the means? Not to me in this case, though I can cite others where I believe they do, so again, it is subjective. I am also perfectly fine with being a hypocrite. I am certain that it is the one trait we all carry as humans.

 

[Anonymous]

We were all wanna bees at some point, otherwise we wouldn't have been doing it. I'm terribly disappointed that you wanted someone with more experience, but why don't we compare records offline and see where we stand?

Not my point. Your point was that you are somehow superior in reference to these things because we are all non-pro wanna-be couch surfers with no right to post.

As for comparing records off-line, I am sure that your cycling record is far superior to mine. Wanna cookie? Heck. maybe you can best me in every endeavor we choose. So what? As far as I can discern, I don't care what your opinion is of my right to post anything I choose.