Why is Cyclingnews giving LeMond a platform?

[Hangdog98]

The assumption

Sorry MacRoadie, the assumption I refer to, albeit ineloquently, is that LA took peds or blood because he knew Dr Ferrari. Surely, in a country that embraces the assumption of innocence until proven guilty, we must assume that LA is innocent until somebody either comes up with real evidence or LA makes a confession. I also feel that Ullrich and Basso were victims of media pressure and mob rule.

Tockit, in 99, when LA tested + for cortioids, wasn't that a trace amount, well below the threshhold, for a saddle sore cream? Is that the + you're referring to? Of course it is, but by omitting the last part of the sentence " presented to the UCI, thus he was cleared of any offence" shows that you are waging a smear campaign. Also to suggest that a claim made by a French newspaper about LA as being either "proof or incriminating evidence" is laughable. Claims by newspapers and trace amounts of saddle sore cream do not constitute anything more than sensationalist news by people who are seeking to discredit someone. If you, or the French media or Floymond or anyone else can bring real evidence to the table then justice will be done.

Seriously, trying to sell that sore bum cream story as a positive drug test result, I thought only L'Équipe could go that low.

 

[Paco_P]

What damns more than of the supposed positive tests are the times in which LA and friends (Ullrich, Riis, Pantani, etc...) went up big mountains. They would have been minutes ahead of Contador and Schleck (who probably are not using EPO in their training programs). It strains credulity that for a few years there were freaks of nature riding, and now there aren't.

One doesn't have to prove that LA took A or B to see that something was affecting his performance unnaturally. All the rest simply provides a context to understand how it happened.

 

[online-rider]

I too thought giving Lemond an article on Cycling News was bad judgement, particularly when the matter is being investigated by various authorities. All of what Lemond writes (and from everything I've read over the years) is simply heresay. Investigating authorities typically give this kind of third party rumor very low credibility for good reason. Rehashing the old Dr Ferrari association in the media again and again is simply a method of trying to give an assumption some credibility. Why would CN want to give airplay to a well published vexatious assumption during a proper enquiry.

Sure LA beat guys that were on the juice. How do we know? Because they got tested and got busted. LA got tested too and passed. LA was rumoured to have visited Dr Ferrari who was proven to be a doping Doctor because his riders got tested and got busted. LA got tested too, and passed. So when facts fail to convict LA they have to develop conspiracy theories like LA paying off everyone including the UCI, WADA, teammates and the media. Like LA doing a deal with the US Navy to access synthetic blood being developed for combat wounds. Like LA doing a deal with the CIA to test genetic material found at Area 51. Like LA's experimental kryptonite radiation cancer therapy that turned him into 'Radioactive Man' with super powers. Let's just stick with the facts and accept that Floymond have made their allegations and they're now being dealt with. Though I'm sure when LA is found not to have a case to answer, Floymond et al will claim that LA hypnotized the Grand Jury with his radioactive powers.

AH HA HA HA HA - I'm not going to get involved in this discussion btw

 

[hrotha]

Is it me, or Lance-huggers are becoming more and more aggressive these days? At this rate, it's going to be unbearable.

 

[badboygolf16v]

All of what Lemond writes (and from everything I've read over the years) is simply heresay.

I assume you mean heresy.

 

[Anonymous]

blah, blah, blah, <link to article>, more inane rhetoric

Why does Versus give Armstrong a platform?

I mean, without the dope, it is obvious he is average at best. I think we can clearly see this year that without exclusive rights to Ferrari, he would have finished top 20 maybe between 99 and 05, and that he is a failure in the teammate category. He never rode for anyone else on his team once. Why would anyone give a narcissist junkie like that a forum to speak?

 

[Anonymous]

I too thought giving Lemond an article on Cycling News was bad judgement, particularly when the matter is being investigated by various authorities. All of what Lemond writes (and from everything I've read over the years) is simply heresay. Investigating authorities typically give this kind of third party rumor very low credibility for good reason. Rehashing the old Dr Ferrari association in the media again and again is simply a method of trying to give an assumption some credibility. Why would CN want to give airplay to a well published vexatious assumption during a proper enquiry.

Sure LA beat guys that were on the juice. How do we know? Because they got tested and got busted. LA got tested too and passed. LA was rumoured to have visited Dr Ferrari who was proven to be a doping Doctor because his riders got tested and got busted. LA got tested too, and passed. So when facts fail to convict LA they have to develop conspiracy theories like LA paying off everyone including the UCI, WADA, teammates and the media. Like LA doing a deal with the US Navy to access synthetic blood being developed for combat wounds. Like LA doing a deal with the CIA to test genetic material found at Area 51. Like LA's experimental kryptonite radiation cancer therapy that turned him into 'Radioactive Man' with super powers. Let's just stick with the facts and accept that Floymond have made their allegations and they're now being dealt with. Though I'm sure when LA is found not to have a case to answer, Floymond et al will claim that LA hypnotized the Grand Jury with his radioactive powers.

Tested and passed? Rumoured to have visited Ferrari?

I thought Public Strategies was better than this.

I read about 2 sentences. Obviously, this guy is the weekend help at Public Strategies. That or it was written by a 12 year old on Bring your Child to Work Day.

 

[Anonymous]

LeMond has one of the fastest Tour time trials ever? How was he able to acheive this? Considering he was the only clean cyclist, didnt spend countless hours in wind tunnels and not riding $15k TT bikes. Even Cancellara with his motor bike hasn't bested LeMond. Little fishy LeMond. Of course I have no proof of this.

Just Sayin'

For a first post, this one rates about average these days. Man, you hit it at the very end too as The Uniballer is finishing up today, so it will probably also be your last.

 

[hrotha]

I read about 2 sentences. Obviously, this guy is the weekend help at Public Strategies. That or it was written by a 12 year old on Bring your Child to Work Day.

You have to admit the "Floymond" bit was good. Also bonus points for Radioactive Man.

 

[ThaiPanda]

Something interesting in the article, if you guys can take the time to actually read it:

I am not sure if the numbers are correct, but the rumor was that he was training upwards of 50 riders, most of whom were top riders.

I thought consensus was that LA had an exclusive contract with Ferrari? Now we hear that not only did he work with LA, but from FL he worked with the whole USPS team and other cyclists as well. From the article he maybe is saying that this was his clientele in the 90's; I can't really tell anything about the timeline. Maybe GL can clear that up in his next rant, I mean article.

Surprisingly Lemond knows alot about doping nowadays that he is retired. Contrast that with his allegedly clueless act when he raced pertaining to his competition doping.

I agree with the original poster, though probably alot of what Lemond says is true. It's just wash/rinse/repeat with this guy and his diatribes. Greg, we've heard all this before so settle down and let's see how this plays out. The reverence Lemond is given in the clinic is a little nauseating. Talk about fanboys.

 

[Race Radio]

Something interesting in the article, if you guys can take the time to actually read it:



I thought consensus was that LA had an exclusive contract with Ferrari? Now we hear that not only did he work with LA, but from FL he worked with the whole USPS team and other cyclists as well. From the article he maybe is saying that this was his clientele in the 90's; I can't really tell anything about the timeline. Maybe GL can clear that up in his next rant, I mean article.

Surprisingly Lemond knows alot about doping nowadays that he is retired. Contrast that with his allegedly clueless act when he raced pertaining to his competition doping.

I agree with the original poster, though probably alot of what Lemond says is true. It's just wash/rinse/repeat with this guy and his diatribes. Greg, we've heard all this before so settle down and let's see how this plays out. The reverence Lemond is given in the clinic is a little nauseating. Talk about fanboys.

Now Chris, pretending to be stupid just makes you look....um, stupid

Ferrari and Lance talked about their exclusive arrangement in Coyle's book. The exclusivity had to do with Grand Tour riders. Lance was the on Tour contender that Ferrari worked with in the 2000's

 

[Big GMaC]

 

[this_is_edie]

Is it me, or Lance-huggers are becoming more and more aggressive these days? At this rate, it's going to be unbearable.

It already is. It's not the aggressivity, it's the lack of original thoughts - they all follow the same scenario over and over again.

 

[ThaiPanda]

Ferrari and Lance talked about their exclusive arrangement in Coyle's book. The exclusivity had to do with Grand Tour riders. Lance was the on Tour contender that Ferrari worked with in the 2000's

I haven't read Coyle's book so I will take your word for it. But, you haven't addressed the USPS angle that Landis implies. Apparently it was an exclusive team deal.

 

[Big Doopie]

Something interesting in the article, if you guys can take the time to actually read it:

I thought consensus was that LA had an exclusive contract with Ferrari?...

wow, the public strategies folks are good at being willfully stupid.

ferrari (in lemond's time -- i.e. early 90s) was rumored to have 50 clients -- argentin, chiappucci, berzin, etc...

in 1999, he still had many clients (including gotti). after the 1999 tour armstrong contracted an exclusive contract -- note what happened to the careers of riders like gotti, career crash, parent's trailer found full of doping products at the giro (much like ex-team mates of armstrong the fraud). but in 1999 and 2000 there were also questions about the weakness of riders in armstrong's team. thus ferrari was quietly brought on as team hematologist (why you would need a hematologist if you are clean and not planning on blood doping i have no idea) -- aiding riders like hincapie to sprint up cols and drop riders like ullrich. thus the blue train was created. it also ushered in the arrival of spanish riders (who were used to playing ball) and the exit of riders like andreu and vaughters who were a little more conflicted.

there is a very distinct timeline that is quite easy to follow.

 

[Race Radio]

I haven't read Coyle's book so I will take your word for it. But, you haven't addressed the USPS angle that Landis implies. Apparently it was an exclusive team deal.

please provide a link to support this exclusive team deal claim.

 

[ThaiPanda]

wow, the poblic strategies folks are good at being willfully stupid.

ferrari (in lemond's time -- i.e. early 90s) was rumored to have 50 clients -- argentin, chiappucci, berzin, etc...

in 1999, he still had many clients (including gotti). after the 1999 tour armstrong contracted an exclusive contract -- note what happened to the careers of riders like gotti, career crash, parent's trailer found full of doping products at the giro (much like ex-team mates of armstrong the fraud). but in 1999 and 2000 there were also questions about the weakness of riders in armstrong's team. thus ferrari was quietly brought on as team hematologist (why you would need a hematologist if you are clean and not planning on blood doping i have no idea) -- aiding riders like hincapie to sprint up cols and drop riders like ullrich. thus the blue train was created. it also ushered in the arrival of spanish riders (who were used to playing ball) and the exit of riders like andreu and vaughters who were a little more conflicted.

there is a very distinct timeline that is quite easy to follow.

I know what he did in the 90's but Lemond's article wasn't clear on the timeline of the exclusive deal with LA. It caught my eye, that is all. RaceRadio cleared that up. Does that make me "willfully stupid"? No, I must be just plain stupid because I surely wasn't trying to be.

You put alot of effort into this post and I am impressed with your knowledge. Will you be writing a weekly column on CN? Also, if you could point out where Hincapie dropped JU in a tour mountain stage I would appreciate it.

 

[ThaiPanda]

please provide a link to support this exclusive team deal claim.

I don't have a link. I am just concluding from what Landis said. He said he trained with LA and Ferrari I believe, when Ferrari would follow them in the car. Also FL says that LA was doing transfusions with the team. FL says LA supplied him with PEDs.

I think it is being "willfully stupid" to say none of Ferrari's work was with the team. Somebody was advising this whole program and it had to be Ferrari. You and your buddy big dumpie need to get on the same page because he says it is with the team as well. He wrote:

thus ferrari was quietly brought on as team hematologist...

That allowed

aiding riders like hincapie to sprint up cols and drop riders like ullrich. thus the blue train was created.

I don't mean to get you guys all worked up in a circular firing squad. Between all the troll battling you guys have been a little lax with a consistent story. I'm just here to help.

 

[Big Doopie]

I know what he did in the 90's but Lemond's article wasn't clear on the timeline of the exclusive deal with LA. It caught my eye, that is all. RaceRadio cleared that up. Does that make me "willfully stupid"? No, I must be just plain stupid because I surely wasn't trying to be.

You put alot of effort into this post and I am impressed with your knowledge. Will you be writing a weekly column on CN? Also, if you could point out where Hincapie dropped JU in a tour mountain stage I would appreciate it.

you question the "willfully stupid" but you don't argue the connection with public strategies.

hincapie and several other disco riders dropped ullrich on the final climb of the first mountain top finish in 2005, i believe. there was a reason the blue train existed post-2000 -- when not one or two, but many team riders were still with the front group starting the last climb...this would correlate exactly with when ferrari was brought on as team hematologist.

interesting also how hincapie has never climbed again as well since leaving the hog and ferrari.

however, kudos to you for now understanding and accepting the clear timeline of drugs and team blood doping that went on under ferrari at armstrong's team.

as for your request that cn contract me to write for them -- it would help if you put in that request yourself. you are right, you have much to learn from my knowledge.

 

[ThaiPanda]

you question the "willfully stupid" but you don't argue the connection with public strategies.

hincapie and several other disco riders dropped ullrich on the final climb of the first mountain top finish in 2005, i believe. there was a reason the blue train existed post-2000 -- when not one or two, but many team riders were still with the front group starting the last climb...this would correlate exactly with when ferrari was brought on as team hematologist.

interesting also how hincapie has never climbed again as well since leaving the hog and ferrari.

however, kudos to you for now understanding and accepting the clear timeline of drugs and team blood doping that went on under ferrari at armstrong's team.

as for your request that cn contract me to write for them -- it would help if you put in that request yourself. you are right, you have much to learn from my knowledge.

Hey I volunteered to be the Public Strategy troll on another thread. I am still waiting for them to contact me and start paying me for this shyt.

2005? That's now how I remember Courcheval. Here is what the CN ticker says:

16:51 CEST
Rasmussen and Valverde look relatively comfortable; Vinokourov has dropped to the back of the group.

Pereiro is caught.

Hincapie drops off, just Popovych left for Armstrong now.

16:54 CEST 11.5km/169.5km to go
Vinokourov is being dropped on one of the steeper sections (big climbs always gets steeper through villages, where the engineers have less space to play with), along with Pereiro who was hanging in there for a bit.

16:57 CEST
Popovych is putting in a kick, to launch Armstrong, and suddenly it's down to half a dozen: Basso is on Armstrong's wheel, but Ullrich is dropped - T-Mobile are out of it. Rasmussen, Valverde are up there as are Mancebo and Evans. Valverde moves through to take up the pace.

So, JU drops 6 minutes after Hincapie. And, Popo was the only one left when JU dropped.

C'mon big dumpie. You can do better than this. Stop being willfully stupid.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't have a link. I am just concluding from what Landis said. He said he trained with LA and Ferrari I believe, when Ferrari would follow them in the car. Also FL says that LA was doing transfusions with the team. FL says LA supplied him with PEDs.

I think it is being "willfully stupid" to say none of Ferrari's work was with the team. Somebody was advising this whole program and it had to be Ferrari. You and your buddy big dumpie need to get on the same page because he says it is with the team as well. He wrote:

That allowed

I don't mean to get you guys all worked up in a circular firing squad. Between all the troll battling you guys have been a little lax with a consistent story. I'm just here to help.

You are not making sense Chris.

 

[ThaiPanda]

You are not making sense Chris.

No, you and big dumpie need to get your story straight because big dumpie agrees with me on the team thing, and he has admitted he has alot of knowledge.

It's called deductive reasoning skills, surf. You've had a little mental vacation the last couple of months but now it is time to get your A game back on.

Will you please confirm to him that I don't work for Public Strategies? Thanks. And, please stop calling me that name. You and others really want to believe I am that Chris guy.

 

[Race Radio]

No, you and big dumpie need to get your story straight because big dumpie agrees with me on the team thing, and he has admitted he has alot of knowledge.

It's called deductive reasoning skills, surf. You've had a little mental vacation the last couple of months but now it is time to get your A game back on.

Will you please confirm to him that I don't work for Public Strategies? Thanks. And, please stop calling me that name. You and others really want to believe I am that Chris guy.

Right, you are not Chris. You are Alphonse, Armstrong's assistant in those Radioshack commercials

 

[ThaiPanda]

Right, you are not Chris. You are Alphonse, Armstrong's assistant in those Radioshack commercials

Thank you for admitting I am not Chris, but I am not that Alphonse guy either. My name is Mongkut and I am originally from Bangkok. Why you need to have such a vivid imagination is beyond me.

I do understand your dilemma here with his conversation so it is understandable you are trying diversionary tactics.

 

[Big Doopie]

oh, chris, 2005 or maybe it was 2004 on the way up to mongie. several of the fraud's teammates were still with him when ullrich got dropped. i believe hincapie was one of them because i remember clearly there being a huge debate about it at the time.

no matter, you are using the tactic of grabbing one thing to try and discredit everything. kinda like public strategies does in arguing each doping allegation one by one but never taking in the mountain of allegations and heresay and evidence that exits in totality.

no matter -- the point is you accept my clear timeline. ferrari was training several top riders up through 1999. in the next two years or so armstrong had an exclusive contract to keep his little secret of fraud and ensure dominance. there was an article about it in velo magazine where an american rider actually requested that armstrong tell him how he can get in touch with ferrari. armstrong's reply was to say "I could give you his number but he won't work with you because I have an exclusive contract".

as armstrong -- in his patholigical insecurity -- felt he needed a better team, he began to twist arms of his team mates. accept help from ferrari individually so that they could assist him better in the tour. that eventually developed into a team wide blood doping program administered by ferrari.

that ferrari connection continued despite armstrong publically disassociating himself with the expert hematologist when he was convicted. and it continued when ferrari was consulted on his comeback. armstrong was assured that he could return to dominance because ferrari knew how to keep him testing clear and the uci would turn a blind eye and have a cup of coffeee if requested. had contador not been on the team -- armstrong would have no doubt (and incredibly!) won the tour in 2009 -- no wonder he was so annoyed at contador.

this year, no longer assured of the uci testers complicity and with greater scrutiny, we have been treated to the armstrong of old (i.e. 1992-1996), the one that can't recover, that was never a GC contender. armstrong should never have even been top ten in any tour and yet he is (at least for the time being) the record holder.

he is a fraud. a vicious sociopathic a$$hole who has harmed many people's lives -- has even gone about actively destroying innocent people's lives. i hope justice will be served and that he will go behind bars for a long time, his fraudulent empire will crumble, and his name will become a punchline.