Why lack of enthusiasm for Vino's return?

[Ninety5rpm]

Wasn't sure whether this was okay under Road, so put it under Clinic just in case.

The latest velonews.com poll asks, How do you feel about Vino's return?

The answer choices, with results so far, are:


Great to see him back. 10% (27 votes)
He served his time, so he should be allowed to race, but I'm not going to root for him 62% (165 votes)
He should not be allowed to race 28% (74 votes)

Why the lack of enthusiasm for his return? Only 10% say it's "great to see him back"? Remember, this is not the public at large, or even "Tour-only fans". These are daily velonews.com readers.

Is it because people believe he is one of the few cheaters?
Or is it because he is one of the few cheaters among the many cheaters who went "too far"?

I mean, if he was cheating like everyone else, more or less, and simply got caught, that's really luck-of-the-draw stuff, and not something to hold against him, I think.

 

[Anonymous]

Wasn't sure whether this was okay under Road, so put it under Clinic just in case.

The latest velonews.com poll asks, How do you feel about Vino's return?

The answer choices, with results so far, are:


Great to see him back. 10% (27 votes)
He served his time, so he should be allowed to race, but I'm not going to root for him 62% (165 votes)
He should not be allowed to race 28% (74 votes)

Why the lack of enthusiasm for his return? Only 10% say it's "great to see him back"? Remember, this is not the public at large, or even "Tour-only fans". These are daily velonews.com readers.

Is it because people believe he is one of the few cheaters?
Or is it because he is one of the few cheaters among the many cheaters who went "too far"?

I mean, if he was cheating like everyone else, more or less, and simply got caught, that's really luck-of-the-draw stuff, and not something to hold against him, I think.

I'm glad he's back. I really appreciate his "attacking" style.

 

[biker77]

I think this is a really good question that goes to the heart of how doping is perceived. The same people voting know, in the back of their minds, what is going on, but still perceive Vino in a negative way. So do I, but have not figured out why yet.

My best theory so far, is that it is easier to percieve Vino doping for greater glory of Kazakhstan, than for a native english speaker to possibly do this to achieve sporting fraud.

Makes me a bit uncomfortable.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I think when people see Lance and Wiggins doing it clean, and the fact we now know nobody doped at this years ToF, it sticks in the throat a bit to see someone who was doping recently making their comeback back at the very next grand tour a month later. That is a natural reaction. But I think there will still be a lot of interest in him and how consistent his performances are once the tour gets underway.

Lance and Wiggins doing it clean?
Nobody doped at this year's TDF?

You're kidding, right?

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I think this is a really good question that goes to the heart of how doping is perceived. The same people voting know, in the back of their minds, what is going on, but still perceive Vino in a negative way. So do I, but have not figured out why yet.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Thanks for being honest.

My best theory so far, is that it is easier to percieve Vino doping for greater glory of Kazakhstan, than for a native english speaker to possibly do this to achieve sporting fraud.

I don't follow that.

 

[Anonymous]

Lance and Wiggins doing it clean?
Nobody doped at this year's TDF?

You're kidding, right?

Not only were they clean but McQuaid has declared the TdF to be dope free for the next several years. Isn't that great?

 

[racerralph]

I think the sticky point about Vino is the absolutely arrogant way Vino has behaved since he was busted. No remorse was ever shown, no apology was ever heard trickle from his lips. No regret for the damage he did to his sport, or the insane sponsors and Kazachs that still seem to/need to worship him, Nothing. He just reluctantly sat on the sidelines, and threatened his return mid way through what was never a proper suspension.
There are plenty of "attackers" in the peloton, it's not like he's really needed, to make bicycle racing interesting. Any body who really follows racing knows there are plenty of young talented riders that are just itching to kick ****, if only the "has beens" would just get out of the way.
I'm truly sorry if that offends anyone, but I stand by that. I look forward to the Andy Schlecks, the Edvald Boasson Hagen's, Alberto Contador's, Mark Cavendish's, Tyler Farrar's, Even the Janez Brajkovic's that Super Hog keeps refusing to acknowledge or nurture.
I don't want to keep strolling down memory lane with indignant old riders that complain and ego trip much louder than their talents are worthy of.
If you fans need riders like Vino for his attacking style, then fine. But really! Don't expect too much out of him. In my eyes he's nothing but a re tread. Sorry.

 

[Anonymous]

I think this is a really good question that goes to the heart of how doping is perceived. The same people voting know, in the back of their minds, what is going on, but still perceive Vino in a negative way. So do I, but have not figured out why yet.

My best theory so far, is that it is easier to percieve Vino doping for greater glory of Kazakhstan, than for a native english speaker to possibly do this to achieve sporting fraud.

Makes me a bit uncomfortable.

Interesting post. On one hand I would like think that Vino served his time so he should be able to (now) continue his profession. On the other hand I know nothing has changed in the sport except how much better the cheaters are and how corrupt the system is that is charged with catching said cheaters. To that end most will conclude that Vino will dope but be more careful. Sad, eh?

 

[Anonymous]

I think the sticky point about Vino is the absolutely arrogant way Vino has behaved since he was busted. No remorse was ever shown, no apology was ever heard trickle from his lips. No regret for the damage he did to his sport, or the insane sponsors and Kazachs that still seem to/need to worship him, Nothing. He just reluctantly sat on the sidelines, and threatened his return mid way through what was never a proper suspension.
There are plenty of "attackers" in the peloton, it's not like he's really needed, to make bicycle racing interesting. Any body who really follows racing knows there are plenty of young talented riders that are just itching to kick ****, if only the "has beens" would just get out of the way.
I'm truly sorry if that offends anyone, but I stand by that. I look forward to the Andy Schlecks, the Edvald Boasson Hagen's, Alberto Contador's, Mark Cavendish's, Tyler Farrar's, Even the Janez Brajkovic's that Super Hog keeps refusing to acknowledge or nurture.
I don't want to keep strolling down memory lane with indignant old riders that complain and ego trip much louder than their talents are worthy of.
If you fans need riders like Vino for his attacking style, then fine. But really! Don't expect too much out of him. In my eyes he's nothing but a re tread. Sorry.

I was being sarcastic. I agree with you. I'm sick of the old guard. Just go away already.

 

[David Suro]

Penty of people used to cheer for Vino back in the T-Mobile days. Ullrich would be locked onto Armstrong (or at least try to be) for three weeks in July and Vino seemed to have carte blanche to attack whenever he felt like it. As one of the strongest men not to be a GC contender, when he attacked it usually meant a splintered peleton. It was exciting and fun to watch.

Then he got his own team. It is a team that was very confusing to most cycling fans. Has there ever been another cycling team sponsored by a city?

Somewhere in there he shaved his eyebrows and got hold of some dope and got caught.

Add to the confusion the fact that the city was having trouble paying the cyclists it sponsored this year. They decided to wear muted uniforms in a form of protest. The kits were hideous.

Then, all of the sudden, Vino announces his return to the team in a press conference right before Johan's press conference about the future of the team. Vino announces, (paraphrase) " I am back, I am the man in charge, anyone who doesn't like it can take a hike".

Even without the doping suspension, the whole story is just to wierd. His grasp of english is limited to the point that he cannot tactfully express himself, proclaim his regret for his mistakes, assert his new-found cleanliness. In other words, his wierdness is wrapped in mystery.

The guy is hard to relate with, which makes him hard to root for.

 

[Dude17]

Lots of things to not like about Vino. But for some reason, I'm glad he's back. I can't explain why. He's been a jerk on more than one occasion (the pre-Tour press conference was a jerk move, for example). So, why am I glad he's back? Something about redemption and he's served his time? F*** no. He has been unrepentant. Maybe it was all the attacking that made things interesting on any given day (unlike this year's Tour). Am I willing to put up with a doper to get those attacks? Hell no.

So, I'm glad he's back, but I really can't explain why.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Great to see him back. 10% (27 votes)
He served his time, so he should be allowed to race, but I'm not going to root for him 62% (165 votes)
He should not be allowed to race 28% (74 votes)

Why the lack of enthusiasm for his return? Only 10% say it's "great to see him back"? Remember, this is not the public at large, or even "Tour-only fans". These are daily velonews.com readers.

Im my view it is pretty easy to see why so many are not rooting for him.

It is because he continues to deny he has doped - obviously I wouldn't expect him to admit to doping but he could have gone the Basso route.

Both Rasmussen and Vino have suffered more from many fans of the sport for their constant denials then their actually doping - it is one thing to be a doper another to assume the fans or stupid and to treat them with contempt.

 

[blackcat]

I think when people see Lance and Wiggins doing it clean, and the fact we now know nobody doped at this years ToF, it sticks in the throat a bit to see someone who was doping recently making their comeback back at the very next grand tour a month later. That is a natural reaction. But I think there will still be a lot of interest in him and how consistent his performances are once the tour gets underway.

every time you link Wiggins to Armstrong, you indict Wiggins. Surprising JV has not told you to shut up, ohhh, JV already did it. In the third week, JV said something about Wiggins on Armstrongs wheel, before they went to the Alps, he said "Bradley on Lance's wheel, its a metaphor". Yeah, no $hit JV, it WAS more than a frickin metaphor.

 

[Cobber]

Im my view it is pretty easy to see why so many are not rooting for him.

It is because he continues to deny he has doped - obviously I wouldn't expect him to admit to doping but he could have gone the Basso route.

Both Rasmussen and Vino have suffered more from many fans of the sport for their constant denials then their actually doping - it is one thing to be a doper another to assume the fans or stupid and to treat them with contempt.

I don't really like Vino but he does make the races interesting that he participates in. It'll be interesting to see how he rides in the upcoming Vuelta.

 

[usedtobefast]

it seems a wait and see attitude is there. his act following his ban, was over the
top. i think that is his way. i was turned off by it, but well, show us what you got is where i am at. if he rides like he used to, and with the new controls, i will be impressed.

 

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[Anonymous]

Do you have a link for that? The cool people need links.

If true I'm sure he was refering to how Wiggins is following the foot steps of a great.

No dude, the onus is on you.

 

[racerralph]

Yeah, Riccardo Ricco is desperate to come back to take the challenge to the old guard.

Yeah, right. With all due respect. Maybe you ought to be watching lacrosse

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Im my view it is pretty easy to see why so many are not rooting for him.

It is because he continues to deny he has doped - obviously I wouldn't expect him to admit to doping but he could have gone the Basso route.

Both Rasmussen and Vino have suffered more from many fans of the sport for their constant denials then their actually doping - it is one thing to be a doper another to assume the fans or stupid and to treat them with contempt.

Well, are the same people who hate Armstrong for continuing to deny he doped and being an arrogant *** the same ones who are not so thrilled with Vino's return? I don't think so. I think there are many LA Lovers who are anti Floyd/Tyler/Vino... all the ones who have been caught.

It's almost like they believe there is a significantly high correlation between those who dope, and those who are caught doping. For the public at large I would not be surprised; but for daily velonews readers? That surprises me.

 

[Galic Ho]

Im my view it is pretty easy to see why so many are not rooting for him.

It is because he continues to deny he has doped - obviously I wouldn't expect him to admit to doping but he could have gone the Basso route.

Both Rasmussen and Vino have suffered more from many fans of the sport for their constant denials then their actually doping - it is one thing to be a doper another to assume the fans or stupid and to treat them with contempt.

There is a difference between denying doping and acknowledging you did dope. One implies you cheated. One proves scientifically you did but don't want to fess up. Vino is the latter, not the former as you said. Not a big issue. Unless someone has some quotes from Vino, I'd go as far as saying he kept his mouth shut for most of his ban (as far as I'm aware). There is also a big distinction between the bans The Chicken and Vino sat through. But this is the clinic, so one lying and the other testing positive for humulguous blood doping might as well be the same thing, ie: your not fooling anyone except the suitably named trolls.

Personally and this may be because I was a big fan of how they both rode, I say let them back in. Rules are rules and they broke them and were punished. Test them, regulate them, but be fair and let them race. Its not like most posters in the clinic don't assume the majority of GC riders are jacked with enough PED's to make an elephant run like a cheetah. Two busted riders should be allowed to race again. Basso is. Millar to. Basically all of Team Rock Racing. At least Vino and Rasmussen will be entertaining.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Well, are the same people who hate Armstrong for continuing to deny he doped and being an arrogant *** the same ones who are not so thrilled with Vino's return? I don't think so. I think there are many LA Lovers who are anti Floyd/Tyler/Vino... all the ones who have been caught.

It's almost like they believe there is a significantly high correlation between those who dope, and those who are caught doping. For the public at large I would not be surprised; but for daily velonews readers? That surprises me.

I don't know as you would have to ask someone who hates Armstrong.

I have no problem with a rider coming back after serving a suspension.
While I do like Vinos attacking style - I wont be jumping up and down if Vino is in contention for the overall GC in the Vuelta.

 

[yourwelcome]

Maybe Vino just talks, rides and looks that one tiny bit too much like a hyper aggressive 'hole to appeal to even road cycling fans?

 

[cromagnon]

Vino has a weird foreign sounding name and not only was he caught doping but he also doesn't speak English. Should have been a lifetime ban tbh.

Now David Millar is another story. Sure he won big when doped, I don't care Vino only won a timetrial doped, David Millar has a proper name and is an anglo saxon so he was rightfully welcomed back with open arms. Amen.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Vino has a weird foreign sounding name and not only was he caught doping but he also doesn't speak English. Should have been a lifetime ban tbh.

Now David Millar is another story. Sure he won big when doped, I don't care Vino only won a timetrial doped, David Millar has a proper name and is an anglo saxon so he was rightfully welcomed back with open arms. Amen.

+1.
That about sums up the English speaking forum attitude.
Sella's back since last week, after only a year's ban. An Italian.
Surprised at the lack of disgust.

Time served. Carry on regardless. Folks don't have to applaud, or even watch him.

 

[Sheltowee]

With Vino in the race at least there's a reason to watch.