Why lack of enthusiasm for Vino's return?

[R.0.t.O]

Towards the end, Vino took the piss to an extent that even casual cycling fans couldn't avoid it. His Vuelta win in 06 where they disappeared before the testers arrived; the Dauphine business in 07 where his form bounced around bizarrely; and frankly the changes to his body shape which occured after leaving TMO - in 2007 it was painful watching him pedal, his leg muscles had completely altered.

It's one thing to be obviously doping to the hard-core cycling community; it's a completely different thing when you make it so obvious to the casual fan. That's unforgivable as far as the cycling publicity machine is concerned and that's why they hit him and Kash with the full barrage of tests in 07.

 

[Izoard]

Why the lack of enthusiasm for his return? Only 10% say it's "great to see him back"? Remember, this is not the public at large, or even "Tour-only fans". These are daily velonews.com readers.

I think this is a great question and one that could be worthy of a thesis (sociology, psychology, just to name 2 areas), because he does truly seem to be one of those polarizing figures. For me it is especially interesting with the people who don't think he should be allowed back.

On the flipside, I wouldn't hold too stock much with VeloNews as a sample of all cycling fans. The angles of VN, and the comments I have seen on the VN forums, suggest a fair degree of bias.

I think when people see Lance and Wiggins doing it clean, and the fact we now know nobody doped at this years ToF, it sticks in the throat a bit to see someone who was doping recently making their comeback back at the very next grand tour a month later.

Arbiter!

every time you link Wiggins to Armstrong

Man, you really don't like Wiggins!

 

[Izoard]

Somewhere in there he shaved his eyebrows and got hold of some dope and got caught.

Funniest line of the day!

 

[**Uru**]

For me it has nothing to do with the fact that he does not speak my language. I dislike him for the very reasons that many people admired him. His attacking style was at the expense of his team and team leader (ie T-Mobile). Then when he got caught for blood doping, it became clear why he could ride that way in the first place. He was juiced to the gills. Not only juiced, but stupid to think he would not be targeted and eventually caught.

 

[_frost]

+1.
That about sums up the English speaking forum attitude.
Sella's back since last week, after only a year's ban. An Italian.
Surprised at the lack of disgust.

Time served. Carry on regardless. Folks don't have to applaud, or even watch him.

Language, familiarity, persons public image, you want your heroes to be someone you like to identify yourself with. Everyone welcomes smiling pretty boy Basso but who would like the dribbling, red nosed Vino or anorectic Rasmussen back.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Towards the end, Vino took the piss to an extent that even casual cycling fans couldn't avoid it. His Vuelta win in 06 where they disappeared before the testers arrived; the Dauphine business in 07 where his form bounced around bizarrely; and frankly the changes to his body shape which occured after leaving TMO - in 2007 it was painful watching him pedal, his leg muscles had completely altered.

It's one thing to be obviously doping to the hard-core cycling community; it's a completely different thing when you make it so obvious to the casual fan. That's unforgivable as far as the cycling publicity machine is concerned and that's why they hit him and Kash with the full barrage of tests in 07.

This makes the most sense to me. There's cheating "within parameters", and cheating "beyond parameters". Vino went way beyond cheating "within parameters".

However, he has served his time. Let's assume he will now also only cheat "within parameters", and see how things go. I, for one, am looking forward to it.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Well according to Pat and that other thread, the era of doping is at an end. The passport has swept everything squeaky clean.
So, Vino should now become as credible as David Moncoutie......
....with similar results.

 

[racerralph]

Towards the end, Vino took the piss to an extent that even casual cycling fans couldn't avoid it. His Vuelta win in 06 where they disappeared before the testers arrived; the Dauphine business in 07 where his form bounced around bizarrely; and frankly the changes to his body shape which occured after leaving TMO - in 2007 it was painful watching him pedal, his leg muscles had completely altered.

It's one thing to be obviously doping to the hard-core cycling community; it's a completely different thing when you make it so obvious to the casual fan. That's unforgivable as far as the cycling publicity machine is concerned and that's why they hit him and Kash with the full barrage of tests in 07.

I agree. And interestingly enough, he was stupid enough to use someone else's blood as his doping vehicle. Hadn't anybody told him that the anti doping authorities had long ago figured out how to detect that ancient method of doping? I think he was begging to be caught, So why the arrogance afterwards? He is just too shady a character to admire, in any way, shape or form.
Ask yourselves, if you had any close contact (ie, fellow competitor) to a person like him, would you like and admire him? The answer may tell you more about yourself than it does for that sorry sucker.

 

[LMaggitti]

I think when people see Lance and Wiggins doing it clean, and the fact we now know nobody doped at this years ToF, it sticks in the throat a bit to see someone who was doping recently making their comeback back at the very next grand tour a month later. That is a natural reaction. But I think there will still be a lot of interest in him and how consistent his performances are once the tour gets underway.

Emphasis added. So far my comments on this board have tended to criticize the comments of the extreme "haters." Let me switch gears a bit to comment on this ...

We KNOW that nobody doped at this year's Tour? Really? We know that?

Words fail me. I am probably responding to a troll; no one is THAT clueless, surely? I mean, it's one thing to give riders the benefit of the doubt, something I understand (if I personally find it increasingly dificult to do so), but the combination of that level of certainly ("we know") with the comprehensiveness ("nobody") is ...stunning.

No, it has to be a troll. No one could be that clueless.

Edit - it should go without saying that there is no particular reason to focus negative feelings upon Vino specifically, while remaining "fans" of professional cyclists generally. He just happened to get caught. However, it is perfectly rational to believe that cycling as a sport should provide stiffer penalties for doping, and thus be appalled that Vino is back so relatively "soon."

Second edit - as much as I visit these forums, I guess I should know this - but as good as I usually am at telling when an internet poster is sincere, or otherwise, I can't tell with BPC. What is the consensus here? Is he serious, or a fairly elaborate troll?

 

[Anonymous]

Emphasis added. So far my comments on this board have tended to criticize the comments of the extreme "haters." Let me switch gears a bit to comment on this ...

We KNOW that nobody doped at this year's Tour? Really? We know that?

Words fail me. I am probably responding to a troll; no one is THAT clueless, surely? I mean, it's one thing to give riders the benefit of the doubt, something I understand (if I personally find it increasingly dificult to do so), but the combination of that level of certainly ("we know") with the comprehensiveness ("nobody") is ...stunning.

No, it has to be a troll. No one could be that clueless.

I don't know... Pat McQuaid said yesterday that there won't be anymore positives in the TdF for the next few years.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I don't know... Pat McQuaid said yesterday that there won't be anymore positives in the TdF for the next few years.

It's probably the only reasonable compromise. Make the parameters crystal clear (thank you bio passport) so everyone knows what they can and can't do to remain "within parameters". Now the bio passport gives the rider the detailed info that only those who were willing and able to pay expensive doctors could get before. As long as everyone stays within those parameters, there won't be any "positives", and the naive masses will come think the sport is "clean". It's a win-win!

 

[Anonymous]

It's probably the only reasonable compromise. Make the parameters crystal clear (thank you bio passport) so everyone knows what they can and can't do to remain "within parameters". Now the bio passport gives the rider the detailed info that only those who were willing and able to pay expensive doctors could get before. As long as everyone stays within those parameters, there won't be any "positives", and the naive masses will come think the sport is "clean". It's a win-win!

Perhaps, but sad-sad.

 

[Dude17]

Second edit - as much as I visit these forums, I guess I should know this - but as good as I usually am at telling when an internet poster is sincere, or otherwise, I can't tell with BPC. What is the consensus here? Is he serious, or a fairly elaborate troll?

I am relatively new to this forum, but I have to say that he comes across as a troll quite often. I think there are times that others like to poke him with a stick to get a reaction, but at times he does seem sincere.

So, like you, not entirely sure.

 

[scribe]

Second edit - as much as I visit these forums, I guess I should know this - but as good as I usually am at telling when an internet poster is sincere, or otherwise, I can't tell with BPC. What is the consensus here? Is he serious, or a fairly elaborate troll?

I think it is pretty easy to pick things out he believes vs the things he says to get a rile up. But sometimes they do both!

Every good forum has one of these kinds of posters. They keep throwing posts out and 3-4 guys at any given time will follow behind goobling up the bait. I wouldn't say he has dominated all the threads the way a bad troller does, so I mostly just get a laugh during one of his posting sessions.

 

[flicker]

Vino

Hey, if Vinos' got the ***** to go hammer a few TTs and breakaway in the Vuelta so be it.
For him to overcome the mining tailing vapor, leftover radioactivity and general toxicity of Kazakastan and become superstar cyclist so be it.
Let those who criticise his top fueling need study the sport of cycling starting in 1899.
The new breed needs to conquer the old guard and they need to show their stuff against the old guard.
Go Vino and Basso!

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I agree. And interestingly enough, he was stupid enough to use someone else's blood as his doping vehicle. Hadn't anybody told him that the anti doping authorities had long ago figured out how to detect that ancient method of doping? I think he was begging to be caught, So why the arrogance afterwards? He is just too shady a character to admire, in any way, shape or form.
Ask yourselves, if you had any close contact (ie, fellow competitor) to a person like him, would you like and admire him? The answer may tell you more about yourself than it does for that sorry sucker.

Pure spectulation on my part here, but perhaps Vino ran out of his own blood - due to his crash - and had to move on to his dad's.

And as for Vino being shady... Didn't he mention at or around his retirement that he had a big bag of dirty secrets from the sport that he'd share with us some day? If so, I guess we're still waiting.

 

[flicker]

vino

Vino is indeed shady in a Barry Bonds and those special Dodgers kind of way.
Let him ride and if he is bad he will pay the consequences/ its kinda like life.

 

[biker77]

Vino has a weird foreign sounding name and not only was he caught doping but he also doesn't speak English. Should have been a lifetime ban tbh.

Now David Millar is another story. Sure he won big when doped, I don't care Vino only won a timetrial doped, David Millar has a proper name and is an anglo saxon so he was rightfully welcomed back with open arms. Amen.

Ninety5rpm, this is what I was getting at with my original post.

Vino is perceived as arrogant because he looks hard as nails. His doping is no different than basso or millar or any of the dopers, yet the perception is that he is worse for the sport than any other cheat coming back from suspension (amongst VN readers).

Why do you think that is?

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Ninety5rpm, this is what I was getting at with my original post.

Vino is perceived as arrogant because he looks hard as nails. His doping is no different than basso or millar or any of the dopers, yet the perception is that he is worse for the sport than any other cheat coming back from suspension (amongst VN readers).

Why do you think that is?

You think it's because he's not "one of us" English speakers?
I haven't detected that sentiment from anyone who was serious.
It also does not square well with him being quite popular among English speaking fans prior to being busted for the doping, despite him being just as "foreign" then.

Perhaps you're suggesting allegiance to cyclists is thinner by English speaking fans when the cyclist is not English speaking? Maybe, but the reaction does not seem to be all that different from that to Hamilton and Flandis (once their guilt was accepted, finally). Look at the lack of enthusiasm expressed for the possibility of Flandis joining Armstrong at The Shack.

And Basso is not exactly an English speaker either.

You also say he "looks as hard as nails" and is arrogant. Well, there does seem to be some repulsion to arrogance among cycling fans, but I think it's more of an excuse than real. Look at how arrogant Cavendish is, yet he seems to be reasonably well liked by even those who claim their dislike for Armstrong and Vino is due to their arrogance.

What a conundrum.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Ninety5rpm, this is what I was getting at with my original post.

Vino is perceived as arrogant because he looks hard as nails. His doping is no different than basso or millar or any of the dopers, yet the perception is that he is worse for the sport than any other cheat coming back from suspension (amongst VN readers).

Why do you think that is?

Actually it has been alleged that riders have been using Viagra eye drops for years.

It doesn't do anything sexually for you or increase performance- but it makes you look hard.

 

[scribe]

Actually it has been alleged that riders have been using Viagra eye drops for years.

It doesn't do anything sexually for you or increase performance- but it makes you look hard.

I believe Roger Clemens used something similar or the real pill deal.

The doping control test for viagra is real simple.

 

[Izoard]

blah blah blah

Arbiter!!!

 

[biker77]

I agree it is a conundrum. Amongst the people who are serious, I would argue that Vino has been singled out more than others. Still don`t know why. I still feel it is because it easier to believe that he really did dope than other cyclists.

I don`t think many cyclists take viagra, although one clinic post claimed it could help recovery from altitude training ( if I remember correctly). Can you claim a TE for furrowed eyebrows?

 

[scribe]

I don`t think many cyclists take viagra, although one clinic post claimed it could help recovery from altitude training ( if I remember correctly). Can you claim a TE for furrowed eyebrows?

Not even for saddle-induced ED?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Not even for saddle-induced ED?

Viagra as a PED? ......well it must be hard not too.

(ok, I willl show myself out of this discussion)