Why leaving out Andy as a doper?

[musorowegudo]

There are strong comments about Albert and the lot being possibly dopped in this year's TDF, yet there seems to be cool issues about Andy. In my own opinion, if AC was on dope, then AS should be even more.

 

[sars1981]

operation puerto I think

 

[M Sport]

If Alberto is on the gear then Andy is on the gear as well, it's that simple.

You have to remember a lot of the posts here are done on the basis of a popularity contest, that's a battle AC can't win on an English speaking forum.

 

[craig1985]

'AC' is either Alberto Contador or Angel Casero, depending on which spin you want to believe. And Andy's brother Frank wired Fuentes 7000 euro for 'training advice', the only reason why Frank isn't on a two year holiday is because they couldn't quiet prove that it was for doping, but you do the math...

 

[brianf7]

If Alberto is on the gear then Andy is on the gear as well, it's that simple.

You have to remember a lot of the posts here are done on the basis of a popularity contest, that's a battle AC can't win on an English speaking forum.

They all have different Doctors these people are paid big $$$ to come up with something that isnt banned and works. there hundreds of so far legal products out there its there secret and we may never find out.

 

[M Sport]

They all have different Doctors these people are paid big $$$ to come up with something that isnt banned and works. there hundreds of so far legal products out there its there secret and we may never find out.

Oh, I agree. And will add that those same Doctors on big $$$$ have been known in the past to come up with ways to beat doping tests, and probably still are.

 

[Barrus]

To be honest there was one common thought between me and my friends, those that follow cycling at least, when we saw the final time trial. The first thought that popped into out minds was Basso who suddenly found time trialing ability prior to his suspension. Now this is by no means evidence of doping, or even an indicator of doping, it's just the first thing we tought about.

Also the Frank and Fuentes thing, I was always certain that Frank would not dope unless his little brother does it as well.

But in reality, I don't know, there is a good chance he does dope, but nothing concrete at the moment

 

[saganftw]

farmaceutical companies do always research and come up with new medicine for ill ppl...but this medicine often happen to boost something in your body that helps you fight illness,ofc they keep is as a secret coz its bussiness first but they have to test it and who is better than elite athletes...maybe in couple of years we ll know about something that todays cyclist use and we have no idea about it

 

[wattage]

Andy has been on the juice as long as he has been pro, its hardly any news.

 

[Martinello]

farmaceutical companies do always research and come up with new medicine for ill ppl...but this medicine often happen to boost something in your body that helps you fight illness,ofc they keep is as a secret coz its bussiness first but they have to test it and who is better than elite athletes...maybe in couple of years we ll know about something that todays cyclist use and we have no idea about it

as a designer, planner, conductor and physician working on clinical trials, I'd find it very unlikely that pharmaceutical companies would use pro bike athletes as gunea pigs. There are several major disadvantages using this approach:

1. Legal/public issues if found out. All clinical trials are heavily regulated and audited by FDA/EMEA/national agencies/contract research organisations etc. Setting up your own illegitemate trial is not that easy.

2. Black market gunea pigs aren't that useful when it comes to controlling the experimential conditions. When doing research you try to eliminate as many confounding factors as possible by applying a strict regimen to the subjects including restrictions on other medications, variations in life style etc. Try to sell that deal to a pro cyclist ("try this drug, but do not take any other drugs, don't go wreck yourself in a week long stage race, follow this diet, show up in our lab every week for blood samples and biopsies .... oh, and don't get caught.....")

3. Cell cultures, Animal models, phase I, phase II and phase III trials do the job in much nicer, legal, organized way

 

[BYOP88]

'AC' is either Alberto Contador or Angel Casero, depending on which spin you want to believe. And Andy's brother Frank wired Fuentes 7000 euro for 'training advice', the only reason why Frank isn't on a two year holiday is because they couldn't quiet prove that it was for doping, but you do the math...

What about Antonio Colom, or did he have a different code name?

 

[Ferminal]

'AC' is either Alberto Contador or Angel Casero, depending on which spin you want to believe. And Andy's brother Frank wired Fuentes 7000 euro for 'training advice', the only reason why Frank isn't on a two year holiday is because they couldn't quiet prove that it was for doping, but you do the math...

AC riding for LS is as strong a link to doping/Fuentes as Andy being Frank's brother.

People can make up their own mind as to what they think, but M Sport is correct in saying that both of them are either clean/dirty.

 

[Pedaaldanser]

Schleck sure looked very doped... did you see that crazed look in his eyes when he was climbing the Tourmalet? And then his performance in the TT!

 

[roundabout]

'AC' is either Alberto Contador or Angel Casero, depending on which spin you want to believe. And Andy's brother Frank wired Fuentes 7000 euro for 'training advice', the only reason why Frank isn't on a two year holiday is because they couldn't quiet prove that it was for doping, but you do the math...

You would need a lot of spin to put Casero or Colom on the "training" schedule for Liberty Seguros,

 

[gloryb141]

'AC' is either Alberto Contador or Angel Casero, depending on which spin you want to believe. And Andy's brother Frank wired Fuentes 7000 euro for 'training advice', the only reason why Frank isn't on a two year holiday is because they couldn't quiet prove that it was for doping, but you do the math...

Or Antonio Colom who is currently suspended.

 

[Big Doopie]

anyone who thinks contador somehow stayed clean while dominating a tour with a whole team full of the hog's patients lives in a dream world.

anyone who thinks shlecklet is clean when his beloved brother is paying a doping doc is also in a dream world.

 

[red_flanders]

anyone who thinks contador somehow stayed clean while dominating a tour with a whole team full of the hog's patients lives in a dream world.

anyone who thinks shlecklet is clean when his beloved brother is paying a doping doc is also in a dream world.

We have a winner!

 

[skidmark]

Schleck sure looked very doped... did you see that crazed look in his eyes when he was climbing the Tourmalet? And then his performance in the TT!

Man, I'd have a crazed look climbing the Tourmalet if I was going up at 7km/h. The mountain is HARD.

And the TT performance wasn't really that good so much as Contador's was not very good.

Anyway, agree with the consensus that he's on whatever Conti/everyone else is, but I'm not really convinced that a 'crazed look' or an average TT is evidence.

 

[saganftw]

as a designer, planner, conductor and physician working on clinical trials, I'd find it very unlikely that pharmaceutical companies would use pro bike athletes as gunea pigs. There are several major disadvantages using this approach:

1. Legal/public issues if found out. All clinical trials are heavily regulated and audited by FDA/EMEA/national agencies/contract research organisations etc. Setting up your own illegitemate trial is not that easy.

2. Black market gunea pigs aren't that useful when it comes to controlling the experimential conditions. When doing research you try to eliminate as many confounding factors as possible by applying a strict regimen to the subjects including restrictions on other medications, variations in life style etc. Try to sell that deal to a pro cyclist ("try this drug, but do not take any other drugs, don't go wreck yourself in a week long stage race, follow this diet, show up in our lab every week for blood samples and biopsies .... oh, and don't get caught.....")

3. Cell cultures, Animal models, phase I, phase II and phase III trials do the job in much nicer, legal, organized way

oh you misunderstood,or i wasnt precise in my post ...i didnt say pharm companies offer athletes new medicine to test it, but some doctors who work with athletes have acces to new medicine and they can give it to athletes as a PED...if im not mistaken it was the case with ferrari and some of his "patients"

 

[ThaiPanda]

If Alberto is on the gear then Andy is on the gear as well, it's that simple.

You have to remember a lot of the posts here are done on the basis of a popularity contest, that's a battle AC can't win on an English speaking forum.

AC has alot more support here than you think. Remember LA was mean to him so that won him alot of fans.

Yours Truly,
Mongkut (special CN forum troll/unpaid Public Strategy plant)

 

[Escarabajo]

as a designer, planner, conductor and physician working on clinical trials, I'd find it very unlikely that pharmaceutical companies would use pro bike athletes as gunea pigs. There are several major disadvantages using this approach:

1. Legal/public issues if found out. All clinical trials are heavily regulated and audited by FDA/EMEA/national agencies/contract research organisations etc. Setting up your own illegitemate trial is not that easy.

2. Black market gunea pigs aren't that useful when it comes to controlling the experimential conditions. When doing research you try to eliminate as many confounding factors as possible by applying a strict regimen to the subjects including restrictions on other medications, variations in life style etc. Try to sell that deal to a pro cyclist ("try this drug, but do not take any other drugs, don't go wreck yourself in a week long stage race, follow this diet, show up in our lab every week for blood samples and biopsies .... oh, and don't get caught.....")

3. Cell cultures, Animal models, phase I, phase II and phase III trials do the job in much nicer, legal, organized way

Good post.

I didn't understand what that poster meant with his comments either.

 

[Mainerider]

To be honest there was one common thought between me and my friends, those that follow cycling at least, when we saw the final time trial. The first thought that popped into out minds was Basso who suddenly found time trialing ability prior to his suspension. Now this is by no means evidence of doping, or even an indicator of doping, it's just the first thing we tought about.

Also the Frank and Fuentes thing, I was always certain that Frank would not dope unless his little brother does it as well.

But in reality, I don't know, there is a good chance he does dope, but nothing concrete at the moment

I had a simliar reaction to his TT. He loses 42 seconds over five miles, but it takes him thirty miles to lose 31 seconds ??I like the guy and really hope he doesn't disappoint us.