Why Tenerife?

[CycloAndy]

I discussed this on twitter a couple days ago.

Gumball ‏@InnerTube1903 May 26
“I remember thinking, so it’s okay for him to leave and not give anybody else a hand?” If he leaves, will I have to carry his bags?” [quote from Froome's book re Wiggins]

Fleur ‏@vamosalberto May 26
@InnerTube1903 Froome comes across as a big **** in his book. Not what he was going for I would think.

Gumball ‏@InnerTube1903 May 26
@vamosalberto Nope. It really stripes away the "nice guy" persona we are so used to hearing about.

Fleur ‏@vamosalberto May 26
@InnerTube1903 yep. "But he seems like a nice guy" we always heard well I guess not

Gumball ‏@InnerTube1903 May 26
@vamosalberto I don't know how he can make himself appear the bad guy in his own book but he pulled it off. Strangely impressive.

Not so nice it seems....! Or maybe Michelle wrote the book for him, who knows.

Yeah he comes across like an arrogant p****! He must have been so far up his own *** that he failed to realise that nobody considered him to be the leader of Sky at the 2012 TdF. Especially seen as he had only just gone from an also-ran to a world-beater and Sky had planned for Wiggins to win since before they began.

 

[The_Juan]

Every time I hear about Froome's successes... the one rider that immediately comes to mind is Raimondas Rumsas. The Lithuanian also had a wife with a bit of a "mouth" problem and a skyrocketing career similar to that of Froome's: From winning the Karkonoze Tour to 3rd at the TdF in less than 3 years.

Wife spent 75 days in jail because she didn't want to testify who the ½ loaded syringes were for. Meanwhile Raimondas was back home throwing the Party of all Parties and, allegedly, enjoying multiple visits from the local ladies of the night. Doesn't get more alpha male than that.

His life would make a great movie.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If DB had told me there'd be 2 leaders at the 2012 TdF and I ended up having to baby the other one and help him, sitting in the wind for him up all the climbs, to have that molly coddled sooky lala threaten to go home because I showed my superiority on a climb, despite me helping him and him now not willing to return the favour, I would say exactly the same things as he has said in the book, and feel the same way.

Wiggo is a spoilt brat. Period.

I really don't get the hate for Froome. Incroyable.

Froome smacked Wiggo in the Vuelta the year before. Smacked him good.

 

[DonMI6]

All of which makes the idea of them riding together at this years TDF seem so unlikely to me. If I were a gambling man I would bet on Wiggins developing a 'chest infection' between now & the race start.

Being a Sky disliker (hate is too strong a word) I hope they do ride together & spend 3 weeks ******ing about while the rest of the race rides off into the distance.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yes, and he wasn't doing that before 2011, and nor was any other rider in the field. Now, all of a sudden, his six hours a day is so much better than his pre-2011 (or every other rider's program) that he transforms overnight from mediocre to the best cyclist in the world for 2 and a half years running?

Pull up your pants - your gullibility is showing.

Pretty sure Catwhoorg was just referencing an old Armstrong commercial.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

If DB had told me there'd be 2 leaders at the 2012 TdF and I ended up having to baby the other one and help him, sitting in the wind for him up all the climbs, to have that molly coddled sooky lala threaten to go home because I showed my superiority on a climb, despite me helping him and him now not willing to return the favour, I would say exactly the same things as he has said in the book, and feel the same way.

Wiggo is a spoilt brat. Period.

I really don't get the hate for Froome. Incroyable.

Froome smacked Wiggo in the Vuelta the year before. Smacked him good.

Wiggins is a complete tool, but he was a great track racer.
Froome is just a fraud.

 

[The_Juan]

maybe Froome doesn't know about these.....if the biggest mountain is important

List of highest paved roads in Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_paved_roads_in_Europe

Mt Teide is not in top 30.

I don't know where you got that list but Pico Veleta has a paved road up to 3,200 meters, and I'm pretty sure Sierra Nevada also has a paved road up to 3,000 meters, or thereabouts.

Rojas even posted a video about it HERE.

As far as the Teide goes... my understanding is that there are multiple climbs that snake up the Teide, some past 2,500 meters. It's a very rugged part of the island so, even if the WADA folks show up, you have multiple escape routes. It's not like the climb up the Stelvio or the Alpe D'Huez where the testers can show up unannounced on the way up or on the way down, even if you send a scout to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Wiggins is a complete tool, but he was a great track racer.
Froome is just a fraud.

I really don't like to split hairs, but Wiggo did a lot of track time trialing (pursuit) and not a lot of what I consider "racing" per se. ie not a lot of tactical nouse required to do the first or second fastest time in qualifying and then beat your final round opponent.

And I won't rehash my disbelief that success in a ~4 minute effort predicts success in a ~3000km effort.

 

[sniper]

I really don't like to split hairs, but Wiggo did a lot of track time trialing (pursuit) and not a lot of what I consider "racing" per se. ie not a lot of tactical nouse required to do the first or second fastest time in qualifying and then beat your final round opponent.

And I won't rehash my disbelief that success in a ~4 minute effort predicts success in a ~3000km effort.

U have good points. But hard to deny he showed at least some above-average physical and/or mental talent, name it as u will, perhaps "winning mentality", or "ability to prepare".
And a key question still is whether or not he was doping for those track medals.

 

[blackcat]

so Froome has been in Tenerife and is now tweeting concern about the lack of OOC testing in Tenerfie.

nice.

we like our credibility

 

[blackcat]

U have good points. But hard to deny he showed at least some above-average physical and/or mental talent, name it as u will, perhaps "winning mentality", or "ability to prepare".
And a key question still is whether or not he was doping for those track medals.

ofcourse he was doping for the track.

the question should be, if the most talented athletes from the Eastern bloc had the same resources as BC, and if anyone like Mikhael Ignatiev had the same resources when they moved to Sky like Wiggo. Answer is no.

and I think the russian timetrialler/IP rider, has the same name as a Canadian politician/intellectual from Toronto. One poli who is not stuffing his face with blow or meth that is, from Canada. Can anyone confirm this. Not the blow or meth or coke part, just the name of the guy, same name as the Russian cyclist.

or not
or dont bother

 

[Ferminal]

I really don't like to split hairs, but Wiggo did a lot of track time trialing (pursuit) and not a lot of what I consider "racing" per se. ie not a lot of tactical nouse required to do the first or second fastest time in qualifying and then beat your final round opponent.

And I won't rehash my disbelief that success in a ~4 minute effort predicts success in a ~3000km effort.

Madison 2008

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Madison 2008

Yep, pay that. In my defense I did say, "not a lot", as opposed to "none".

Plenty of ordinary performances in the madison with Rob Hayles, too.

And did not realise he also raced with T-Mobile track team for a world cup, taking madison silver with Cavendish.

 

[SundayRider]

I really don't like to split hairs, but Wiggo did a lot of track time trialing (pursuit) and not a lot of what I consider "racing" per se. ie not a lot of tactical nouse required to do the first or second fastest time in qualifying and then beat your final round opponent.

And I won't rehash my disbelief that success in a ~4 minute effort predicts success in a ~3000km effort.

Exactly, not too many world class 800m-1500m runners who are also world class at the marathon is there?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Anyone know how the testers get around with medical equipment? Phlebotomy equipment is kinda full-on and I am curious how they go through customs, etc? Or do they pick stuff up when they arrive?

And if they do bring it with them, say to Tenerife, that kinda precludes too may tests for the trip, unless they brought a whole stack of it, doesn't it?

 

[spalco]

Anyone know how the testers get around with medical equipment? Phlebotomy equipment is kinda full-on and I am curious how they go through customs, etc? Or do they pick stuff up when they arrive?

And if they do bring it with them, say to Tenerife, that kinda precludes too may tests for the trip, unless they brought a whole stack of it, doesn't it?

Why would they bring any equipment like that? They just need to draw the blood and send it off to the lab.

 

[neineinei]

Anyone know how the testers get around with medical equipment? Phlebotomy equipment is kinda full-on and I am curious how they go through customs, etc? Or do they pick stuff up when they arrive?

And if they do bring it with them, say to Tenerife, that kinda precludes too may tests for the trip, unless they brought a whole stack of it, doesn't it?

Here is some info about IAAF's blood testing protocol (with the added bonus of Riccos blood values used as an example of an abnormal blood profile):

http://www.european-athletics.org/m.../DCDSeminar9-BloodTestingProtocol_English.pdf

They don't seem to need a lot of equipment.

 

[Catwhoorg]

It isn't a huge amount of equipment to set-up up a satellite lab just for biopassport checks, but then the trained personnel, and quality/audit requirements are sufficient that I don't think its viable to have a lab on Tenerife.


Local DCOs, pulled from local docs or more likely nurses is another matter.

Train them in the form filling and how to approach an athlete, then a payment each time they are asked to collect a sample(s).


Good find on that presentation

 

[jilbiker]

so Froome has been in Tenerife and is now tweeting concern about the lack of OOC testing in Tenerfie.

nice.

we like our credibility

I think Froome is concerned about competition this year. His tweet is just a red herring, perhaps a way to discredit them when they beat him. We all asked Sky the same questions the last 2 years (2012, 2013) why do you go to Tenerife to train?? All kinds of bogus answers, well now we know why. Near zero testing, no accountability. Mr Froome/Sky why were your there at all?? and previous years?

I also have my doubts about the Columbians and all the folks who go to train in countries where accountability is near zero or can be easily bought. I think if UCI put a restriction on where a Professional can train (like it must be a place where WADA/UCI can test you 2-3 times a week) we might see a more level playing field.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I also have my doubts about the Columbians and all the folks who go to train in countries where accountability is near zero or can be easily bought. I think if UCI put a restriction on where a Professional can train (like it must be a place where WADA/UCI can test you 2-3 times a week) we might see a more level playing field.

Such a restriction will never be allowed. Cyclists are people and they're allowed to go wherever they want. Besides, you can't force a cyclist to stay away from their home country where their family lives.

 

[King Boonen]

Can people please stop talking about Tenerife as if it is somewhere in the middle of the Amazon rain forest that's only accessible by a three day canoe journey.

It is extremely easy to get to. If teams are going there to avoid testing they either have a deal going with the relevant authorities to not test them there or they are aware the authorities are lazy. It's easier for me to get to Tenerife from Glasgow or Edinburgh than it is for me to get to the north coast of Scotland.

 

[neineinei]

Can people please stop talking about Tenerife as if it is somewhere in the middle of the Amazon rain forest that's only accessible by a three day canoe journey.

It is extremely easy to get to. If teams are going there to avoid testing they either have a deal going with the relevant authorities to not test them there or they are aware the authorities are lazy. It's easier for me to get to Tenerife from Glasgow or Edinburgh than it is for me to get to the north coast of Scotland.

Even if it is only a 2,5-3 hour flight from Madrid to Tenerife the UCI tester will probably have to make the flight the day before the testing is to take place. It is common for riders to pick a testing hour early in the morning. For the tester to be at the hotel on Teide at 7 he/she will have to be at Tenerife the evening prior to the testing, so a hotel stay will be added to the bill. If they want to test 3 riders who are staying at different hotels and all have picked an early hour for the testing more than one testing crew will be needed. If a group of riders from one team are staying in the same hotel you can't just line them up and test them in one go, they might have choosen different hours of the day for their testing, and the tester will have to stay there all day to be able to test more than one. Not to mention that they will be alerted of the testing by the teammate tested earlier in the morning.

OOC testing is expencive. Even more so at places like Tenerife. I'm sure UCI and the Spanish Anti-Doping Agency would be happy to test Froome and anyone else on Teide if they had the recourses they needed to do so. Maybe Sky and the other teams can pay a bigger chunck of the anti-doping bill?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Even if it is only a 2,5-3 hour flight from Madrid to Tenerife the UCI tester will probably have to make the flight the day before the testing is to take place. It is common for riders to pick a testing hour early in the morning. For the tester to be at the hotel on Teide at 7 he/she will have to be at Tenerife the evening prior to the testing, so a hotel stay will be added to the bill. If they want to test 3 riders who are staying at different hotels and all have picked an early hour for the testing more than one testing crew will be needed. If a group of riders from one team are staying in the same hotel you can't just line them up and test them in one go, they might have choosen different hours of the day for their testing, and the tester will have to stay there all day to be able to test more than one. Not to mention that they will be alerted of the testing by the teammate tested earlier in the morning.

The whereabouts hour of the day that they choose is only a time when they guarantee to be available, it's not the only hour of the day when they can be tested. Yes, it seems to be typically in the morning.

But testers can grab a blood sample at any time (between 6am and 10pm, I believe) - and if the riders are staying at that hotel you'd think it would be pretty easy to rock up one evening.

 

[King Boonen]

Even if it is only a 2,5-3 hour flight from Madrid to Tenerife the UCI tester will probably have to make the flight the day before the testing is to take place. It is common for riders to pick a testing hour early in the morning. For the tester to be at the hotel on Teide at 7 he/she will have to be at Tenerife the evening prior to the testing, so a hotel stay will be added to the bill. If they want to test 3 riders who are staying at different hotels and all have picked an early hour for the testing more than one testing crew will be needed. If a group of riders from one team are staying in the same hotel you can't just line them up and test them in one go, they might have choosen different hours of the day for their testing, and the tester will have to stay there all day to be able to test more than one. Not to mention that they will be alerted of the testing by the teammate tested earlier in the morning.

OOC testing is expencive. Even more so at places like Tenerife. I'm sure UCI and the Spanish Anti-Doping Agency would be happy to test Froome and anyone else on Teide if they had the recourses they needed to do so. Maybe Sky and the other teams can pay a bigger chunck of the anti-doping bill?

I'm sorry but no. You seem to be making some assumptions that just aren't true. First you are either assuming that the testers are based near the labs or in major cities. There is no proof of this. Next you are talking as if testers are based at all the possible mainland high-altitude training spots, which again there is no proof of, so the travel is still required. Different hotels? How does that differ from anywhere else?

You are also assuming that athletes generally choose early morning time slots, but it's equally likely they could choose an evening slot as they are hotel based. Do you have access to the ADAMS records or a summation of these?


Anywhere people are training at high-altitude will require either a flight, car-hire and long drive and a stay in a hotel overnight if they have to test in the morning. Tenerife is serviced by a huge number of flights, driving costs down and making access incredibly easy for the testers.

There is absolutely no evidence that it is harder or more expensive for OOC tests to occur in Tenerife. In fact, logically, the opposite is true. With huge numbers of flights, boats, hotels, a tailor made infrastructure, it should be simple for the UCI, NADO or whoever is in charge of testing people based there to get the samples.

 

[Catwhoorg]

UKAD periodically advertises for testers.

You need certain qualifications, typically be a RN or a doctor (so as to draw blood), and then they train you and pay each time they call on you.

there may or may not be a retainer as well. There isn't an open position I can verify on.