Widar Wonderkid

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That said though, I'm not totally down and out on Nordhagen, given his (allegedly) absurd VO2 max. Maybe something hasn't quite clicked with his training or nutrition or whatever. I'll wait for another couple of years, who knows how his body develops.

He's been at Visma for years. I think it's safe to assume if any of these guys has been close to maxing out their current potential, it's going to be Nordhagen. Of the favorites in Avenir, he was the oldest. Still a very good result and he's "in the general conversation", just not the "best climber among his peers" conversation as he has been heralded for years. You never know how these guys develop (same story for guys like August) so it's safer to wait and see. But for the time being expectations should be lowered. Del Toro is only 14 months older and just podiumed the Giro, Aysuso was half a year younger when he podiumed the Vuelta, Uijtdebroeks was his age when he finished top 10 in Vuelta, Suisse, Romandie, Catalunya...

 

[ingsve]

He's been at Visma for years. I think it's safe to assume if any of these guys has been close to maxing out their current potential, it's going to be Nordhagen. Of the favorites in Avenir, he was the oldest. Still a very good result and he's "in the general conversation", just not the "best climber among his peers" conversation as he has been heralded for years. You never know how these guys develop (same story for guys like August) so it's safer to wait and see. But for the time being expectations should be lowered. Del Toro is only 14 months older and just podiumed the Giro, Aysuso was half a year younger when he podiumed the Vuelta, Uijtdebroeks was his age when he finished top 10 in Vuelta, Suisse, Romandie, Catalunya...

Where did that perception of him being generational even come from? That one stage in Eroica juniors? Or just him being a skier or something?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Where did that perception of him being generational even come from? That one stage in Eroica juniors? Or just him being a skier or something?

I don't know where it came from, i'm going mainly on impressions of other people i didn't follow him closely (still don't tbh) before he became U23. I'm also not sure whether it was just about his climbing chops or as a (GC) rider in general.

 

[ingsve]

I don't know where it came from, i'm going mainly on impressions of other people i didn't follow him closely (still don't tbh) before he became U23. I'm also not sure whether it was just about his climbing chops or as a (GC) rider in general.

Possibly also hype because Visma was targeting him already before he became a junior.

 

[Brullnux]

He's been at Visma for years. I think it's safe to assume if any of these guys has been close to maxing out their current potential, it's going to be Nordhagen. Of the favorites in Avenir, he was the oldest. Still a very good result and he's "in the general conversation", just not the "best climber among his peers" conversation as he has been heralded for years. You never know how these guys develop (same story for guys like August) so it's safer to wait and see. But for the time being expectations should be lowered. Del Toro is only 14 months older and just podiumed the Giro, Aysuso was half a year younger when he podiumed the Vuelta, Uijtdebroeks was his age when he finished top 10 in Vuelta, Suisse, Romandie, Catalunya...

No for sure, I agree. He's not in the future GT winner camp, not yet at least.

On a different note, I wonder if the hoarder teams (UAE, Red Bull, Visma) will start to lessen the load or expectations on younger riders to avoid burnout. Training and racing like a professional cyclist is a more ascetic lifestyle than that of, say, a footballer, and doing it from age 17/18 surely takes its toll. Obviously if you football style development set-ups it gets riders to their potential quicker, but it also probably sucks the joy out of life at an earlier point.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

No for sure, I agree. He's not in the future GT winner camp, not yet at least.

Well, there is a big difference between winning the TDF or the Giro/Vuelta and depending on opposition. For the moment he certainly seems close enough to be considered a potential future Vuelta winner for instance. But the same can be said for Widar and others. Carapaz, Yates, Hindley, Hart are all GT winners after all.

 

[Samamba]

Injured...

Imagine staying a devo riders with the sole reason to be able to contest Worlds to then be injured just before. Decision about starting in the TT or not will be taken tomorrow but probably not. Apparently it's worse in the TT position so hopefully he can at least still ride the road race.

 

[Berniece]

Injured...

Imagine staying a devo riders with the sole reason to be able to contest Worlds to then be injured just before. Apparently it's worse in the TT position so hopefully he can at least still ride the road race.

What happened?

 

[Samamba]

What happened?

Don't know, he's been struggling with his glutes the last 2 weeks, started when he did some intensive TT training (might have overdone it, it's not a healthy position to be in too much)

 

[Red Rick]

Staying a year at u23 just for the WC and l'Avenir is always a dumb idea IMO

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Staying a year at u23 just for the WC and l'Avenir is always a dumb idea IMO

Especially considering the fact he could have contested L‘Avenir as a pro as well, like Seixas or Øxenberg

 

[Samamba]

Staying a year at u23 just for the WC and l'Avenir is always a dumb idea IMO

It's not like his schedule would've been that much different as a pro.
I just think it's a dumb rule from the UCI cause you get kids like Widar who have to choose between a chance at being WC u23 and maybe do what's best for their development (I do think a WT stage race and some more pro races would've benefitted him this year).

Especially considering the fact he could have contested L‘Avenir as a pro as well, like Seixas or Øxenberg

Yes, not the case anymore next year tho (unless Avenir drops out of the nations cup).

 

[Brullnux]

Staying a year at u23 just for the WC and l'Avenir is always a dumb idea IMO

I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a slower approach. Can prevent mental + physical fatigue, and even though it means you fall behind someone like Seixas in the short term I don't think there's any reason that it slows you down in the long term.

Obviously social media doesn't paint a very honest photo of someone's life, but it does seem like Finn has been able to relax a lot more than Seixas this year – holidays, days off, etc. I think there's absolutely a benefit to this at their age

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a slower approach. Can prevent mental + physical fatigue, and even though it means you fall behind someone like Seixas in the short term I don't think there's any reason that it slows you down in the long term.

Obviously social media doesn't paint a very honest photo of someone's life, but it does seem like Finn has been able to relax a lot more than Seixas this year – holidays, days off, etc. I think there's absolutely a benefit to this at their age

It's just physical load managment, which should happen for all riders. But if you go and race below your level, I don't think that's very helpful.

Seixas has fewer race days this years, but they're gonna be much higher quality, and I think he's gonna improve much faster as a result. It enables better periodization and structure than Widar's schedule.

IMO riders should race what they can handle and still recover well. And certainly not below that. And by not going pro, you put a very hard ceiling on what you can put on your schedule.

The only reason for me to spend an extra year as a u23 is hoping your pro contract is gonna be bigger if you farm the u23 schedule hard, and that to me is not exactly backing yourself for your pro career.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Kid needs to get a hold on his nerves if wants to come good. apparantly barely slept from the stress, and ruined his chances before the race even began.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Kid needs to get a hold on his nerves if wants to come good. apparantly barely slept from the stress, and ruined his chances before the race even began.

Impossible to say what caused this. Slept bad all week, had physical issues which made him sign off for the ITT and also had cramps during the race.

 

[Netserk]

Kid needs to get a hold on his nerves if wants to come good. apparantly barely slept from the stress, and ruined his chances before the race even began.

Vingegaard was even worse in that regard than Widar today. A good team around him can help a lot. And something outside the sport that he cares about (but I guess Widar won't become a father soon).

 

[KoopaCycling]

Just won U23 EC title. The competition wasn't quite on WC level though, i don't think. Not sure.
Don't know these young riders that well. Still nice to have won this one after last week failure.

 

[Samamba]

Just won U23 EC title. The competition wasn't quite on WC level though, i don't think. Not sure.
Don't know these young riders that well. Still nice to have won this one after last week failure.

7 out of the top 10 of Worlds was at EC. Nothing to do with competition, no one in the u23 category can follow him if he's feeling good and if you bring him to a explosive final climb. His 3min numbers are unmatched in that category.

 

[Berniece]

Still a shame of his WC, but it doesn't matter that much in the long run. Any professional win means more. Looking forward to his first pro win next season.

 

[yaco]

WIDAR and Novak are the two riders from the under 23's that I believe can win races in 2026.

 

[Samamba]

Well I just typed about his planned schedule for next year (if he ofc is still a Lotto rider, you never know nowadays) but looked like it changed already compared to what was the plan 2 months ago.

He won't be riding the Vuelta, but he will ride the Giro. Interesting! He also seems to be more enthusiastic again about his classics potential than his GT potential and I personally like that, cause I still don't really see him as a future GT winner and he should never neglect his 3-5min strength to try to do better in insane mountain stages.

Then if his first part of the season hasn't changed (not sure given the GT change) he should ride Algarve-Drome-Ardeche-Catalunya-Fleche Wallone-Liège. So very WT heavy. Austria in the summer if I remember correctly. Foia and Malhao should suit him perfectly in Algarve tho, could come close to winning a stage there depending on who else is there.

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

Widar said yesterday in an interview he had diarrhoea the day before the WC, but before / after the WC he didn't mention this, and after the WC he said he simply wasn't good enough / had cramps. He could easily have used the excuse of not sleeping well and his stomach bug, but he didn't. It takes a mentally strong mind to take up responsibility, apologise towards the team that worked the whole day for you... without something to show for.
He answered with the pedals, a week later, and that must be the best and most rewarding feeling.

 

[hayneplane]

Just won U23 EC title. The competition wasn't quite on WC level though, i don't think. Not sure.
Don't know these young riders that well. Still nice to have won this one after last week failure.

Similar field. Big difference was race duration. Only around 120km for a championship race is a joke.

Shows he is a really good rider but still doesn’t answer the endurance question that he will need to pass to make a strong impact in the pro scene in bigger races.

 

[Samamba]

Similar field. Big difference was race duration. Only around 120km for a championship race is a joke.

Shows he is a really good rider but still doesn’t answer the endurance question that he will need to pass to make a strong impact in the pro scene in bigger races.

hard to say if his engine is really big BUT he's won plenty of 160-180km races (so normal distance for u23) this year, like Ardennaise en LBL, so I don't think using Worlds to say it isn't is fair (last year he was really good as a first year). Plenty of reasons why he could've been that bad there, injury, sickness,stress, just a bad day, the heat/humidity circumstances in Rwanda, and yes maybe a hard all day up and down day isn't where he's best.