Wiggins Discussion thread.

[icefire]

cobo was just too good. he reeled in froomes best ever attack and then counter attacked. froome would've over reached and blown up trying to stay with cobo when he was riding away on previous stages. he had team mates up the road when he was doing so and they just would've worked against him and taken turns attacking him along with Taaramae. he couldn't hold his wheel on the angliru and nothing else suggests he would've done any better. if he had been trying to hold cobo's wheel, he would've blown up on the angliru and lost even more time. cobo was unlucky not to win by more

and about froome working for wiggins. he only worked on several stages for him. I only once saw him doing more than a few kms on the front on stage 11 of the vuelta

Froome only worked on two stages: Manzaneda and Farrapona (I'll ignore la Covatilla because it was before the ITT). It was enough to lose 27 seconds in the first one. He lost the Vuelta by 13 seconds. Now, there are three kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't. Which kind are you?

 

[willbick]

would've been a bit more than a few seconds mate. wiggins would've lost over a minute if froome had continued his attack

Yr crystal ball is has a crack in it i think

 

[nick101]

Froome only worked on two stages: Manzaneda and Farrapona (I'll ignore la Covatilla because it was before the ITT). It was enough to lose 27 seconds in the first one. He lost the Vuelta by 13 seconds. Now, there are three kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't. Which kind are you?

to me that indicates he would've lost even more time trying to stay with cobo. if he can't sit on the front for a few simple kms setting tempo (which should be easy for a climber of his pedigree right??) then clearly a bigger effort required to hold onto cobo's wheel on farrapona or angliru would've seen him blow up even more spectacularly. cobo didn't even look to be trying on either of those stages. the only time I really saw him put in an effort was on pena cabarga.

as for the tour wiggins was dropped as soon as the pace increased by a few km/h and lost 10 seconds in the first 100m of froomes acceleration. not very hopeful for losing only a few seconds. it was 4kms out or 12minutes from the finish of that stage btw

 

[willbick]

He lost 10 seconds in 100m!! Surely not

 

[nick101]

watch the stage. as I said in another thread more research needs to be done as your wild claims have no basis. froome accelerated to nearly double the speed, which created a sizeable time gap within 100m

 

[will10]

cobo was just too good. he reeled in froomes best ever attack and then counter attacked. froome would've over reached and blown up trying to stay with cobo when he was riding away on previous stages. he had team mates up the road when he was doing so and they just would've worked against him and taken turns attacking him along with Taaramae. he couldn't hold his wheel on the angliru and nothing else suggests he would've done any better. if he had been trying to hold cobo's wheel, he would've blown up on the angliru and lost even more time. cobo was unlucky not to win by more

and about froome working for wiggins. he only worked on several stages for him. I only once saw him doing more than a few kms on the front on stage 11 of the vuelta

He didn't need to follow Cobo on Angliru to win the Vuelta. You're telling me he wouldn't have limited his losses to Cobo better if he hadn't had to ride looking over his shoulder trying not to drop Bradley? OK.

 

[nick101]

I never mentioned wiggins once. on the angliru, froome was given free reign as soon as brad dropped. froome never waited for wiggins on the angliru so I don't know what you're talking about. and if he'd chased cobo down on farrapona like you say he would've been out numbered 3:1 and gotten worked over by cobo and his team mate and taaremae who desperately wanted that stage

 

[willbick]

watch the stage. as I said in another thread more research needs to be done as your wild claims have no basis. froome accelerated to nearly double the speed, which created a sizeable time gap within 100m

How many times have you seen a rider attack off the front of the lead group going uphill? How many times have you seen them go what looks like a long way clear after just a few seconds? How many times have you seen the same rider get slowly reeled back by the group as the effort of his attack causes him to fatigue and slow? 500 times?! Maybe you have to see something happen 501 times before you understand...

 

[Cyivel]

Interview with Shane Sutton on Wiggins

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...e-success-that-Bradley-couldnt-deal-with.aspx

 

[nick101]

a serious attack like froome was about to make? usually only once a tour.... wiggins was flailing like a salmon after froome attacked. I said he made that gap only on wiggins and not pinot or the others. wiggins was immediately dropped

Interview with Shane Sutton on Wiggins

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...e-success-that-Bradley-couldnt-deal-with.aspx

he was one of the key team sky staff that removed their support from wiggins and placed it on froome, which caused all the controversy. He's talking rubbish as he already knew that wiggins wasn't going to race another tdf, in fact he was part of the group that caused it to happen.

 

[willbick]

Wiggins was immediately dropped because, unlike Pinot, etc he made no effort to respond to the attack of his team mate. Any rider would've been dropped in the same position as wiggins at that moment.

 

[willbick]

I was at a cycling event in July 2012 when wiggins was leading the tour and shane sutton said that he thought wiggins probably wouldn't race the 2013 tour because he didnt think wiggins would be prepared to make the same sacrifices to train as hard again. So this has been on the cards for a long time actually

 

[nick101]

Wiggins was immediately dropped because, unlike Pinot, etc he made no effort to respond to the attack of his team mate. Any rider would've been dropped in the same position as wiggins at that moment.

Why didn't he respond? because he couldn't keep up as I already said . he didn't know what on earth was going on when froome attacked and couldn't keep up. Guys in his exact position like pinot immediately responded and started trying to chase him down

I was at a cycling event in July 2012 when wiggins was leading the tour and shane sutton said that he thought wiggins probably wouldn't race the 2013 tour because he didnt think wiggins would be prepared to make the same sacrifices to train as hard again. So this has been on the cards for a long time actually

yes the 2013 tour was always uncertain, especially given his participation at such a tough giro. But until froome wrestled the leadership from wiggins, it was a forgone conclusion that he was going to do at least one more tdf.

 

[nick101]

I was at a cycling event in July 2012 when wiggins was leading the tour and shane sutton said that he thought wiggins probably wouldn't race the 2013 tour because he didnt think wiggins would be prepared to make the same sacrifices to train as hard again. So this has been on the cards for a long time actually

yes the 2013 tour was always uncertain, especially given the tough giro. But until froome wrestled the leadership from wiggins, he was always going to do at least one more tdf.

 

[willbick]

I dont think froome wrestled the leadership from wiggins. It was a team sky decision from last year that froome would be the main GC leader for le tour. Obviously you cant set plans in stone because anything can happen, froome cudda got injured or ill or whatever, but this was clearly the long term plan. You are just trying to make it sound more interesting and 'personal' by saying froome 'wrestled' the leadership.

 

[willbick]

Oh man u talk a lotta rubbish. Wiggins didnt respond because he didnt have to. He was the team leader, in yellow. It was up to guys from other teamsmto respond to the attack, not him. Im not saying he wudda definitely kept up with froome exactly but to say he wudda lost chunks of time at the finish is just ludicrous speculation.

 

[willbick]

When i said 'guys in his exact position' i meant in yellow jersey, team leader, team mate of froome. Not 'exact position on the road'

 

[nick101]

yes I agree about the tour leadership always being froomes, but brad's grand ambitions backfired on him and chris froome put a stop to them. he's essentially been demoted to 3rd at sky and if uran podiums in the vuelta, it'll likely be fourth. As for wiggins not having to chase him down - froome was under two minutes down. He could have taken a large chunk of that out of brad if his attack was allowed so brad would've had to have followed or otherwise endangered his position in yellow. he had the most to lose if froome attacked. The others had a lot to gain as they could have risen up the gc if they followed a (potential) move like froome's.

 

[oldcrank]

The end of the one-trick pony.

Three podiums in Grand Tours; numerous one week tour wins;
pursuit and team pursuit world championships, Olympic
Gold Medals and Olympic and world records; madison
world championship, Olympic medal, and six-day win
and podium; seven Olympic medals in four different
events on road and track.

 

[offbyone]

I dont think froome wrestled the leadership from wiggins. It was a team sky decision from last year that froome would be the main GC leader for le tour. Obviously you cant set plans in stone because anything can happen, froome cudda got injured or ill or whatever, but this was clearly the long term plan. You are just trying to make it sound more interesting and 'personal' by saying froome 'wrestled' the leadership.

Agreed. Wiggins was targeting the Giro and Froome the Tour which made good sense based on the routes. The problem came up when Wiggins decided he wanted to double at the Tour too this year.

Clearly though the road decided the outcome because Froome has been consistently lighting it up this year and wiggins has been floundering.

 

[martinvickers]

The end of the one-trick pony.

Are you serious?

Madisons, Pursuits, Team Pursuits, Prolouges, TT's, team TTs, National Road Race champs, the most prestigious of week long stage races and finally three GT podiums culminating in a Tour where he was frankly in the top 4 or 5 climbers.

He's not by any stretch of the imagination among the very greatest cyclists who ever lived...no sane person would suggest otherwise. But what he most surely was, was the least one-trick, one trick pony imaginable.

Sweet lord, dislike the man all you like, god knows he's dislikable - but let's not just make out fantasies to please ourselves.

 

[martinvickers]

Agreed. Wiggins was targeting the Giro and Froome the Tour which made good sense based on the routes. The problem came up when Wiggins decided he wanted to double at the Tour too this year.

Clearly though the road decided the outcome because Froome has been consistently lighting it up this year and wiggins has been floundering.

In retrospect, knowing what we now know. do you think he really saw himself doing the double? Or was it just bullsh*t for the media to amuse himself?

 

[webvan]

Are you serious?

Madisons, Pursuits, Team Pursuits, Prolouges, TT's, team TTs, National Road Race champs, the most prestigious of week long stage races and finally three GT podiums culminating in a Tour where he was frankly in the top 4 or 5 climbers.

He's not by any stretch of the imagination among the very greatest cyclists who ever lived...no sane person would suggest otherwise. But what he most surely was, was the least one-trick, one trick pony imaginable.

Sweet lord, dislike the man all you like, god knows he's dislikable - but let's not just make out fantasies to please ourselves.

Ditto! Only two GT podiums though, Vuelta 2011 and TDF 2012? Ah youre counting the 2009 TDF maybe? Don't think they changed the rankings officially though.

 

[Cyivel]

Ditto! Only two GT podiums though, Vuelta 2011 and TDF 2012? Ah youre counting the 2009 TDF maybe? Don't think they changed the rankings officially though.

They did

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/29/bradley-wiggins-tour-de-france-2009

 

[webvan]

Oh good, wonder if that's also shown on the TDF website...well the history page is offline now, so that will have to wait!