Wiggins Discussion thread.

[autologous]

C**t

 

[Ripper]

I am sure Wiggins will be knighted along Brailsford.

Brailsford for service to both British track & road cycling.

Wiggins for Tour and Track as well.

Chris Hoy got knighted, I can see Wiggins knighted soon too.

Gotcha. I thought being knighted was for really big deal types of things. You know, saving lives, discovering cures to cancer, etc. I have found it funny that sports stars are now being knighted. I guess it is actually when you are really, really good at something?

 

[rhubroma]

Then you, sir, are an idiot. Neither Froome nor Wiggins would be racing in this Tour without the backing of corporate sponsorship. You postulate an impossible scenario and then agonize over it. Do you really believe that Sky (or any other team for that matter) just twiddled their thumbs over the intervening months and turned up at the Tour and said "let's just see how we get on"???

Sky, again like every other team, picked an option (and whether it was based on marketing, PR, horoscopes, etc. is neither here nor there) and stuck with it. Everyone was paid, everyone did a job. It isn't Green's Theorem.

I can't believe the inaneness here regarding Wiggo fanboys, who simply refuse to see something that to every other clear headed observer has been obvious: namely, Froome got bogged down in the morass of team politics, and all the business interests of his corporate sponsors, which inhibited his capacity to fully express his potential on the terrain that best suited him. That the best man of the Tour may thus not be the one in Yellow in Paris, that the agonistic aspect of the event has suffered as a result, if not been falsified, and that, in the final analysis, too much corporate meddling results in less spectacular racing. Look, I'm not the only one saying it. So if you insist on my idiocy, then you must also do so for that of Jalabert, Argentin, Fondriest, Pereiro, Cipollini, even Roche would largely agree.

Now you can rant and rave all you want about "being paid too do a job," that it's not "Greens Theorem" (whatever that means), "agonizing over impossible scenarios," etc: but this Tour was b-o-r-i-n-g. And had its spirit of competition falsified. Scenarios are totally decided in the corporate board room today, with no margin for fantasy on the road, by riders who are not permitted to also think for themselves, interpret, invent, create as in past epochs. This has made cycling poorer over the decades in my book. Though this is what happens when everything becomes too corporate programed, too automatonish, too remote controlled, too piloted. I have said many times before that cycling in the 80's was much better, more genuine, basic and real. It became definitively worse when the US Postal corporate model set in, which SKY has reincarnated. No fantasy, no spontaneity, no damn humanity. This is the world of big business, of global and 5-year projects, of hyper-specialization, of fanatical team work, of vapid pacing.

This Tour has been the perfect expression of all the business and publicity interests of cycling, not competition; while when too much business comes in (or let's say a certain radical corporatism), then the human side is diminished and the whole broth becomes rather insipid. Like this Tour.

 

[Morbius]

Sky / British Cycling (two sides of the same coin) don't worry about commercial or sentimental factors when deciding which cyclist to back. Look what they just did to Chris Hoy.

 

[CobbleStoner]

I don't care if Wiggo is British or a native English speaker, I love that he is a TRACKIE that won the TdF!

 

[SiAp1984]

Such a shame froome doesn't have Contador's attitude about listening to the DS when being the best man in the race

I guess that is the reason why I find Froome much more likable than AC. He did it like Ullrich in 1996. And he still has plenty of time for a GT win.

As for Wiggins, I am not sure about that. In a Tour with in-form climbers like Andy Schleck not at Sky and less ITT, he might find it difficult to finish in the toop spot. However, I think Wiggins deserves this win. Except for the attacks by Froome, he never suffered in the mountains. And he is by far the strongest time trialist in this race (I am quite sure he will go very strong tomorrow). Of course, this Tour could have been more spectacular or exciting but like the 2011 Giro, it just lacked competition: Evans wasn't in his best shape, Andy Schleck wasn't there, Frank Schleck wasn't going well and got busted, Menchov had no shape etc. Wiggins did a great Tour, supported by an extraordinary strong team which perfectly matched pace and race situation to his needs. I especially like his elegant style in the saddle - and I wish he would take of those sideburns...

 

[Nocontest]

I can't believe the inaneness here regarding Wiggo fanboys, who simply refuse to see something that to every other clear headed observer has been obvious: namely, Froome got bogged down in the morass of team politics, and all the business interests of his corporate sponsors, which inhibited his capacity to fully express his potential on the terrain that best suited him. That the best man of the Tour may thus not be the one in Yellow in Paris, that the agonistic aspect of the event has suffered as a result, if not been falsified, and that, in the final analysis, too much corporate meddling results in less spectacular racing. Look, I'm not the only one saying it. So if you insist on my idiocy, then you must also do so for that of Jalabert, Argentin, Fondriest, Pereiro, Cipollini, even Roche would largely agree.

Now you can rant and rave all you want about "being paid too do a job," that it's not "Greens Theorem" (whatever that means), "agonizing over impossible scenarios," etc: but this Tour was b-o-r-i-n-g. And had its spirit of competition falsified. Scenarios are totally decided in the corporate board room today, with no margin for fantasy on the road, by riders who are not permitted to also think for themselves, interpret, invent, create as in past epochs. This has made cycling poorer over the decades in my book. Though this is what happens when everything becomes too corporate programed, too automatonish, too remote controlled, too piloted. I have said many times before that cycling in the 80's was much better, more genuine, basic and real. It became definitively worse when the US Postal corporate model set in, which SKY has reincarnated. No fantasy, no spontaneity, no damn humanity. This is the world of big business, of global and 5-year projects, of hyper-specialization, of fanatical team work, of vapid pacing.

This Tour has been the perfect expression of all the business and publicity interests of cycling, not competition; while when too much business comes in (or let's say a certain radical corporatism), then the human side is diminished and the whole broth becomes rather insipid. Like this Tour.

Absolute garbage. Froome is paid to do a job and that job does not entail attacking his team leader when that leader is in yellow over 2minutes up on the rest of the field, why would any cycling fan want to see something like that in a team race.

Put your cards on the table: are you honestly suggesting that Froome should have attacked his own leader and rode away from Wiggins (if indeed he could) while Wiggins was in yellow??

 

[LaFlorecita]

I thought he kept gapping Wiggins while riding a relatively steady tempo?

Yes. It wasn't an attack. Wiggo should've been able to keep up if he were just as good as Froome.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I guess that is the reason why I find Froome much more likable than AC. He did it like Ullrich in 1996. And he still has plenty of time for a GT win.

Ha! LA fan?

 

[Magnus]

I guess that is the reason why I find Froome much more likable than AC. He did it like Ullrich in 1996.

Froome was 4 seconds faster than Wiggins in the mountains this year. Ullrich was 4 minutes slower than Riis in the mountains in '96. Not really the same thing.

 

[hrotha]

I guess that is the reason why I find Froome much more likable than AC. He did it like Ullrich in 1996.

Except for the part where Ullrich respected the team hierarchy and his leader so much he was still holding back for Riis in the first mountain stage of 1997 instead of putting on pathetic shows to humiliate him.

 

[Nocontest]

Except for the part where Ullrich respected the team hierarchy and his leader so much he was still holding back for Riis in the first mountain stage of 1997 instead of putting on pathetic shows to humiliate him.

I agree with you there, Froome's display was pathetic, I lost all respect for him right there.

 

[rhubroma]

Absolute garbage. Froome is paid to do a job and that job does not entail attacking his team leader when that leader is in yellow over 2minutes up on the rest of the field, why would any cycling fan want to see something like that in a team race.

Put your cards on the table: are you honestly suggesting that Froome should have attacked his own leader and rode away from Wiggins (if indeed he could) while Wiggins was in yellow??

Absolutely yes! This Tour would have been soooo much more interesting had he done so. While SKY still would have won. Hinault did to Lemond. Now it didn't work out, but what a Tour and La Vie Claire won besides. Roche did to Visentini at the Giro, and he ended up doing the improbable triple! Now that was cycling, not the hyper-corporate facsimile we get today. Sorry, but I couldn't care less about Brailsford's investments and his PR agenda. I want great racing! SKY gave us just the opposite: a boring show and probably the best man didn't win. Where's the entertainment or integrity in that?

It's quite pathetic when the Tour de France gets decided at the boardroom table.

 

[rhubroma]

Sky / British Cycling (two sides of the same coin) don't worry about commercial or sentimental factors when deciding which cyclist to back. Look what they just did to Chris Hoy.

Now that's absolute garbage. SKY/BC has designated Wiggins from the beginning for all the commercial and sentimental factors during this London Olympic year. In fact, anyone else simply wouldn't do. No matter what. Kill the race. Who cares. Wiggins is our guy. Bravo!

 

[stampedingviking]

Now that's absolute garbage. SKY/BC has designated Wiggins from the beginning for all the commercial and sentimental factors during this London Olympic year. In fact, anyone else simply wouldn't do. No matter what. Kill the race. Who cares. Wiggins is our guy. Bravo!

You really need to grow up, this is a TEAM sport not every man for himself.

Sky have played this brilliantly AS A TEAM.

Congrats Brad Wiggins.

 

[Magnus]

Now that's absolute garbage. SKY/BC has designated Wiggins from the beginning for all the commercial and sentimental factors during this London Olympic year. In fact, anyone else simply wouldn't do. No matter what. Kill the race. Who cares. Wiggins is our guy. Bravo!

So a team has a potential tour winner. Backs him all the way and he wins the tour. What's wrong with that? So IF Froome didn't puncture and IF they had backed him and IF he had been able to put more time into Wiggins in the mountains than he will loose in the tt's he could have won the tour.

But after the first tt Froome was minutes behind Wiggins with another TT to come and not a gazillion mtf's. What's wrong with backing Wiggins then, when he has the time advantage and the rest of the parcour is partly suited to Wiggins and partly to Froome?

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Now that's absolute garbage. SKY/BC has designated Wiggins from the beginning for all the commercial and sentimental factors during this London Olympic year. In fact, anyone else simply wouldn't do. No matter what. Kill the race. Who cares. Wiggins is our guy. Bravo!

We saw who was the best today. Bad luck but you have been shown to be wrong.

 

[webvan]

Well that ITT was impressive! No "it's a done deal let's play it safe" like Hinault/85, Riis/96 or Ulle/97, etc...one has to conclude that Brad reads this thread and was losing sleep over rhubarb's relentless simplistic rhetoric, thanks for taking care if that Brad, now we can move on...

Fact oriented people will have noted that like during the first ITT Froome (and TJVG) had some "sustainability" issues (T1 vs T2, T2 vs T3) at least compared to Wiggo, something he (they) will have to work on if they want to beat the master ;-)

 

[Jan the Man]

We saw who was the best today. Bad luck but you have been shown to be wrong.

I don't really follow this logic it is natural that Wiggins should beat Froome in his domain. It is after all his specialism.

Sky were correct in supporting Wiggins at Le Tour as the course was tailor made for him, he will never have a course which suits him as much.

The fact of the matter is we simply do not know whether Froome would've beaten Brad had the roles been vice a versa.

An observation we can make with certainty is that Froome was stronger than Wiggins (who was admittedly returning from injury) at the Vuelta last year as he finished above him despite being his lapdog in the mountains.

 

[rhubroma]

We saw who was the best today. Bad luck but you have been shown to be wrong.

We saw the best time trialist. Congratulations to him.

The Tour route left much to be desired.

As far as growing up is concerned: when somebody mature enough around here has anything to actually debate about what I critically said, not just about SKY, but today's cycling in general, I'm all ears. But then again I realize most are clinging to their puerile motives.

Final analysis, a great time trialist won a boring Tour. Hopefully next year's course presents us with an attacker's race, in which case Wiggins will have to excel himself.

Post Scriptum: Saw a clip of Chiappucci's famous win at Sestriere 92: 5 cols, the Iseren (the roof of Europe), Sestriere, 7 hours 45 minutes winning time. Now that's a course worthy of the Tour. Keep the long time trials, but give us real mountain stages too. And by the way, Indurain, the super time trialist, won that Tour.

 

[Machu Picchu]

You really need to grow up, this is a TEAM sport not every man for himself.

Sky have played this brilliantly AS A TEAM.

Congrats Brad Wiggins.

Using your logic shouldn't you have congratulated sky rather than wiggins? as you are correct that without the team to carry him up the climbs wiggo wouldn't be in yellow.

We saw who was the best today. Bad luck but you have been shown to be wrong.

Yes as many predicted that froome would take time out of wiggins today.

 

[Carols]

Chapeau Wiggo!!! Team Sky has been totally dominant and Wiggo rode the final ITT like the TdF champion he now is! Good on you mate!!!

 

[doperhopper]

Absolute garbage. Froome is paid to do a job and that job does not entail attacking his team leader when that leader is in yellow over 2minutes up on the rest of the field, why would any cycling fan want to see something like that in a team race.

Put your cards on the table: are you honestly suggesting that Froome should have attacked his own leader and rode away from Wiggins (if indeed he could) while Wiggins was in yellow??

Well, in any case, there are two men who caused that Froomey lost the Tour - Bertie and Andy. With them Wiggo would be probably dropped by 1-2 min in every mountain stage.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Using your logic shouldn't you have congratulated sky rather than wiggins? as you are correct that without the team to carry him up the climbs wiggo wouldn't be in yellow.



Yes as many predicted that froome would take time out of wiggins today.

Probably the most stupid post I have ever seen on here, Wiggins beat Nibali by 6 minutes and 19 seconds for Christ's sake. I still haven't stopped laughing!

 

[dgodave]

I am sure Wiggins will be knighted along Brailsford.

Brailsford for service to both British track & road cycling.

Wiggins for Tour and Track as well.

Chris Hoy got knighted, I can see Wiggins knighted soon too.

If its "Sir Wiggins".... does he have to ride with armor and a Lance?
.