Wiggins/ Froome - is it just a grudge?

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Aug 3, 2009
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I think we'll see Froome try to take Contador with him on the climbs, gain enough time on Wiggins to get him out of contention, then use the team to lean on Wiggo.

If Froome loses time to AC early in some stupid fashion, Sky could easily shift to option 1a, last years champ. Especially if wiggins doesn't actually reach deep to try to capture the Giro.
 
There will be a little bit of grudge but they are professionals so they are going to get on with it.
1) There was no way Froome was going to win the TDF 2012 even if he attacked Wiggins and went away. At most he would have gained 20-40 s not enough to leapfrog Wiggins. This was apparent to both of them.
2) Wiggins was team leader and etiquette demanded that Froome stay with his leader. This is Wiggins point of view that Froome violated that.
3) Froome was stronger that Wiggins in the mountains and he wanted to win stages as much as possible. His contention was that he was not allowed to win inspite of helping Wiggins in the mountains. That is Froome's side of it.
4) TDF 2013 is mountainous. So obviously Froome will have advantage. But it is important for Sky to have backup plan with Wiggins in case Froome crashes and loses time. Besides which there is another motivation. Cancellara is not participating. Ergo the best TTer now is Wiggins. He is going to target the TTs and win them easily. He will most likely be in yellow as well for some time. It is a win-win situation for him even if he works for Froome.
It would have been decided already by SKY as to who is the leader. Come July all the team would be working for one leader.
 
Feb 19, 2013
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William H said:
Wiggins is really very bad at talking to the press. Some riders speak their minds, some speak PR speak, but Wiggins switchess between them and ends up contradicting himself.
This is so true.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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I bet Froome hopes Contador will have a very good form.

That way he'll have an excuse when Contador goes :p
 
Feb 1, 2011
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jamesmasters said:
Wiggins has shown that he is prepared to ride for other people. I remember him riding himself into the ground for Cavendish at the Olympics even though he had the TT coming up (and even after Froome had stopped pulling in the same race).
1. Cavendish is not a Grand Tour rival. It's much easier for Wiggins to support a sprinter, especially Cavendish, who was already a national hero, riding at his home Olympics.
2. Wiggins didn't "ride himself into the ground" in the road race. He did his job which was to pull when asked but make sure he didn't do anything to hurt his chances for the TT. Froome did the same or more work earlier in the race when fewer people were watching on TV.

To the larger question, it's more a natural rivalry than a grudge. Wiggins probably resents people saying that Froome is a more natural GT rider and that he won the tour on a parcours custom made for a time trialist like himself. Wiggins has an ego, like most athletes do, and would naturally resent the suggestion that he's not as good as his teammate.

He must also be thinking about a scenario at the end of the year, if Froome wins in France, but Wiggins fails to win in Italy, Froome's Grand Tour palmares will be superior to his own. Then where would he stand in the hierarchy? Would he ever be able to ride the Tour as leader again.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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I don't know if it's been discussed before, but I am curious to see who from Sky will pass the finish line first, in Nice. Big chance for yellow I suppose.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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The Hitch said:
A 1 day race, after youve won the tour de france, umm not quite the same thing as sacrificing the actual peak is it:rolleyes:

its like trying to compare someone who gives a fiver to charity with someone who flew to africa for 2 years in order to work with those in need.

Apologized for what:confused:
WTF is wrong with some people. A guy sacrifices his own dreams and devotes the form of his life to helping you win the tour de france, acheieve your dreams, and he is expected to apologize?

WTF. :confused::confused:

Some people are seriously messed up in the head.
Hehe. Some people need to improve their reading skills! I didn't say at any point that morally Froome should be apologizing to Wiggins - I meant to ask, would Wiggins drop all this if Froome stroked his ego a bit by apologizing?

Having said that I don't think Froome behaved well last year, just as Wiggins isn't behaving well now. There is a team leader. The rest are supposed to get behind him. That's the way it works. Froome certainly sacrificed himself in the Vuelta 11 and Wiggins owes him for that, but not really for the Tour.

The whole thing is completely stupid because with the Giro in his legs Wiggins has no hope of even being the 2nd best rider on the Sky team, unless .... *cough*

If he drops out of the Giro early then it will get interesting. In that situation Brailsford should tell him that Froome's the leader and that's the end of it. Brailsford can't put his leader (Froome) in a situation where he needs to keep an eye on his own train as well as the competitors. The dual pressure of competing with other teams but also having to worry about Wiggins wheelsucking the train up the mountains and then killing him in the TT could completely ruin things for Froome.
 
Jan the Man said:
Last year's route was tailor made for Wiggins. This year's route is designed for an excellent climber who can TT well.

On top of that you add the fact that the Giro has the toughest parcours of any GT. It makes the Giro Tour double extremely difficult, bordering on the impossible, in the modern era (even someone as good as Contador failed in 2011).

Even they are both equal leaders and even if Wiggins is in Yellow after the TT. If both arrive at Plateau de Bonsacre there will be attacks from someone (Purito/Contador if not initiated by Froome) I know who from Froome and Wiggins I'd be backing to be the best bet and it's not the knight who's got a Giro in his legs.
Going back to the Giro/ Tour double as nearly impossible, I am not so sure it is right to say that. In sports there is always somebody who will break the records. I know.. you spoke of modern era and mentioned 2011. But I am not convinced that what killed Contador's chances was the terrain or the competition but bad luck in the first week ( three nasty crashes) and some questionable administrative decisions by the organizers. IMO Wiggins, if he ride the tour at all, has to honor his title and do the best he can to win. Froome has to be much better if he wants to show he is capable of winning. In all fairness, Wiggins has one tour and Froome none yet.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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IndianCyclist said:
There will be a little bit of grudge but they are professionals so they are going to get on with it.
1) There was no way Froome was going to win the TDF 2012 even if he attacked Wiggins and went away. At most he would have gained 20-40 s not enough to leapfrog Wiggins. This was apparent to both of them.
2) Wiggins was team leader and etiquette demanded that Froome stay with his leader. This is Wiggins point of view that Froome violated that.
3) Froome was stronger that Wiggins in the mountains and he wanted to win stages as much as possible. His contention was that he was not allowed to win inspite of helping Wiggins in the mountains. That is Froome's side of it.
4) TDF 2013 is mountainous. So obviously Froome will have advantage. But it is important for Sky to have backup plan with Wiggins in case Froome crashes and loses time. Besides which there is another motivation. Cancellara is not participating. Ergo the best TTer now is Wiggins. He is going to target the TTs and win them easily. He will most likely be in yellow as well for some time. It is a win-win situation for him even if he works for Froome.
It would have been decided already by SKY as to who is the leader. Come July all the team would be working for one leader.
:confused: Tony Martin?
 
Jul 19, 2010
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maltiv said:
Keep in mind that Froome lost 1:30 or so due to a crash on stage 1.
Isn't he lost like 3 minutes at the end or something? So even if he didn't loose 1:30, he still couldn't win it anyway. The hierarchy at sky team last year has been decided. So discussing to a nauseum that Froome could win it, it's the same thing as saying would da, could da, should da. I would be curious on how wiggin comes out from the Giro. People talks about Giro/Tour double as impossible these days, but maybe wiggin and his guru kerison know something that no one knows. We'll who da thought last year that wiggin could peak all year long and won TDF plus Olympic? At this time, wiggin can say anything he wants I guess...

Froome/Wiggin battle on the press --- guess who's having a fun time? Contador, Purito and Valverde are sitting on the couch right now holding beer with their feet on the table, saying: "Let them duke it out. May the best ego prevails...":D
 

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Nov 12, 2012
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Jelantik said:
...

Froome/Wiggin battle on the press --- guess who's having a fun time? Contador, Purito and Valverde are sitting on the couch right now holding beer with their feet on the table, saying: "Let them duke it out. May the best ego prevails...":D
They should jump on their bikes and think: "Damn! One Skyborg is too much, what we're gonna do with two?!... AIM FOR OUR HOME RACE!"
 
willbick said:
You cant 'wheel suck' up a mountain. They go slower up mountains so the drafting effect is negligable
I wouldn't say negligible where gms of weight are said to make a big difference.
It requires 5% energy to overcome air resistance without drafting. If one is drafting behind that will become 4%. This 1% difference is what makes the difference between winning and losing. The difference of power between the top riders is 1-2% only. Which is why they attack to distance their rivals and are cross when someone doesn't contribute to pacing even on the mountains.
 
Jelantik said:
Froome/Wiggin battle on the press --- guess who's having a fun time? Contador, Purito and Valverde are sitting on the couch right now holding beer with their feet on the table, saying: "Let them duke it out. May the best ego prevails...":D
this may work in elections or something but I doubt its a good idea in cycling.
 
Afrank said:
I consider this a more accurate assessment of where they stand in relation to each other in the TT.
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=21145
Wiggins was coming off his top peak form in the Tour (+ it was his home race) and Martin crashed out of the Tour with a broken wrist in addition to multiple other injuries that year.
In the clinic someone did a calculation of wattages Wiggins Olympics and Martin world's. Wiggins was way higher bit of course valkenberg tt was harder. Nevertheless I don't know if even top form Martin could match it. Of course if Wiggins wanted to peak for a individual tt rather than do it full chicken anorexic mode while also riding mountains, he could probably put minutes into Martin.
 
willbick said:
You cant 'wheel suck' up a mountain. They go slower up mountains so the drafting effect is negligable
Drafting effect is reduced, but not negligible. It is afterall proportional to the square of (speed + head_wind). It is definitely significant enough that Skytrain can be effective in the first place.
 
May 26, 2009
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willbick said:
You cant 'wheel suck' up a mountain. They go slower up mountains so the drafting effect is negligable
Nonsense, sheer and utter nonsense. And everyone here who rides a bicycle can easily check it's nonsense :rolleyes:

The pro's do about 25-30 kmph on the straights on the average mountains and 18-25 on the really hard parts. Add to this when they are attacking. And everyone can check how much drafting helps at those speeds... it's very, very noticable, especially at the higher speeds.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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wwabbit said:
Froome could have taken maybe 1'30" at La Toussuire.
Sorry I just don't buy that - that's a big gap and there is no basis for it on what we saw in their performances
 
The Hitch said:
In the clinic someone did a calculation of wattages Wiggins Olympics and Martin world's. Wiggins was way higher bit of course valkenberg tt was harder. Nevertheless I don't know if even top form Martin could match it. Of course if Wiggins wanted to peak for a individual tt rather than do it full chicken anorexic mode while also riding mountains, he could probably put minutes into Martin.
TT wattage calculations are even more stupid than mountain ones - do the clinic freaks have access to Wiggin's CDA in any given wind condition, or do they take off the shelf assumptions which clearly won't reflect an autistically perfected position. I've seen silly 7W/Kilo numbers from this sort of rubbish - if that was the case Froome wouldn't even be arguing back about Wiggin's Tour leadership.
 

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