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Wiggo at the 2010 Tour

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Where will Wiggo finish?

  • 11th or worse

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Anonymous

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Publicus said:
LOL. Sorry, I couldn't recall who your favorite riders were in the current peloton. No offence intended.

love watching EbH ride.. and Haussler.. Lot of time for Brad, but particularly Dave Millar who just comes across as a nice bloke. Basso, Cunego, Pozzato for riding styles.. Vino for being a complete nutjob, Thomas De Ghent since the ToB, both Downings but especially Dean, Big George, Geraint Thomas, Vicki Pendleton, and grrrrrr, Lizzie Armitstead, Robbie, Stuey (see i do like some aussies)and of course Jens, but who doesnt like Jens.. Cav, but its difficult, i love watching him cross the line, its great to watch, we where in tears when he won san remo, but something makes me feel guilty about liking him, its like the wins are too easy.. I guess its not the british way, we arent used to supporting winners, something just feels, i dunno, uncomfortable..

Cant stand, Contador, or Valverde, completely indifferent to the Schlecks, think cadel is a whining old woman, and have deep down suspicions about cancellara...

think thats the lot.. :D

edit: oh i missed LA.. erm.. i think at his peak, Discovery was one of the most beautiful things to watch, theres never been a team ride at the front like they did, and some of the feuds with Ullrich, Pantani etc where legendary.. But i think cycling would be a lot better off without him.. Hes become bigger than the sport, and nobody should be bigger the sport..
 
Clemson Cycling said:
He won the Tour easily and put an old man on the podium for starters

question was about tactics. If you label someone a tactical genius one should be able to demonstrate the tactics employed and what makes them genius. Simply pointing to the outcome is only dispositive of the outcome and not the effectiveness/genius of the tactics.
 
May 27, 2009
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With such a stacked field I think Wiggins would need another breakthrough to get in the top 10 next year. I feel that Sky would be perfect for that, but then again he is losing a lot of team support. I don't see him getting top five and top ten would be a stretch for him.
 
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NickofLouse said:
With such a stacked field I think Wiggins would need another breakthrough to get in the top 10 next year. I feel that Sky would be perfect for that, but then again he is losing a lot of team support. I don't see him getting top five and top ten would be a stretch for him.

i dont understand this team support thing...

what did he have last year.. ???

Dave Millar who gave every once of sweat and blood.. and apart from that... VDV did his best but was clearly far from his best...

his support this year could be much stronger.. Chris Froome is potentially one of the best young guys around, Lofkvist has already proved himself, Barry has ridden 7 or 8 grand tours, John-Lee Augustyn climbs pretty damn well, Kjell Carlström has ridden three tours and has good experience, and dont write off geraint, the kid can climb.. there are plenty enough riders at sky who can climb enough to support him on the lower slopes, and him and lofkvist can work together on the steeper climbs..

i think the thought that sky have less GT support than Garmin is a little unfounded.. (imo)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Angliru said:
Do you or Evans ever take any responsibiliy for his failures??? For starters:
*The 2009 Dauphine was lost on Ventoux when he was dropped by Valverde giving up minutes before the finish.
*The 2009 Tour was a case of bad nerves, the flu, mental issues or any other number of reasons that have been tossed about.;) The Spaniards had little to do with it.
*I've always heard that the reason Evans lost the 2008 Tour was because of Silence-Lotto's lack of support, not because of any Spanish conspiracy.
*The 2009 Vuelta was simply a result of karma. After all the years of whining and publicly blaming his lack of Tour/grand tour success on his teammates it was bound come back and bite him in his a$$ chin.;)

By the way you can thank the Spaniards for the WC win since their and the Italians inability to work cohesively with all the talent they brought opened the door for Evans to stumble off the front, look around, notice that he had a gap and suddenly ride like he'd stolen the bike he was on to victory.:D

This is me lightening up by the way.;)

Angliru, i was having a joke about the Spainophobia. I was making the point of how many big races Cadel has come 2nd to Spainiards. Don't get so serious.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Angliru said:
Do you or Evans ever take any responsibiliy for his failures??? For starters:
*The 2009 Dauphine was lost on Ventoux when he was dropped by Valverde giving up minutes before the finish.
*The 2009 Tour was a case of bad nerves, the flu, mental issues or any other number of reasons that have been tossed about.;) The Spaniards had little to do with it.
*I've always heard that the reason Evans lost the 2008 Tour was because of Silence-Lotto's lack of support, not because of any Spanish conspiracy.
*The 2009 Vuelta was simply a result of karma. After all the years of whining and publicly blaming his lack of Tour/grand tour success on his teammates it was bound come back and bite him in his a$$ chin.;)

By the way you can thank the Spaniards for the WC win since their and the Italians inability to work cohesively with all the talent they brought opened the door for Evans to stumble off the front, look around, notice that he had a gap and suddenly ride like he'd stolen the bike he was on to victory.:D

This is me lightening up by the way.;)

your basically saying that all his podiums all down to his fault and his win at the worlds fell in his lap and was a fluke. Do you have anything nice to say about him?
 
dimspace said:
i dont understand this team support thing...

what did he have last year.. ???

Dave Millar who gave every once of sweat and blood.. and apart from that... VDV did his best but was clearly far from his best...

his support this year could be much stronger.. Chris Froome is potentially one of the best young guys around, Lofkvist has already proved himself, Barry has ridden 7 or 8 grand tours, John-Lee Augustyn climbs pretty damn well, Kjell Carlström has ridden three tours and has good experience, and dont write off geraint, the kid can climb.. there are plenty enough riders at sky who can climb enough to support him on the lower slopes, and him and lofkvist can work together on the steeper climbs..

i think the thought that sky have less GT support than Garmin is a little unfounded.. (imo)

A TTT. Which kept him high up in the overall. When the real mountains came, he suffered (Col de Rom/Colombiere/Ventoux), which ultimately impacted his TT at Annecy.

Next year's course doesn't offer him that buffer.
 
Jun 10, 2009
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Publicus said:
Perhaps you've not watched AC and the Schlecks race before. Maybe you missed it. Saxo sets a high tempo to shell out as many of the domestiques and contenders as possible. Once the last Saxo guy is blown up, Frank or Andy, whoever is weakest or placed lower, makes the initial attack. They expect this attack to eventually be brought back. The other brother sits on the back of the small group waiting for a lull in the action. Then attacks from the back of the small group.

They continue this yo-yo attack until one of them escapes or the other contenders cannot respond.

See Verbier, Stage 16 (forget the name of the mountain), Col d' Romme, Mt. Ventoux at this year's TdF. Now since you are so smart, can you tell me what AC did during each of those stages? Which domestiques closed the gap for him? Who shepherded him through the mountains?

I predict it will be different this year than last year, mainly because lance and AC are on seperate teams, and the route gives them oportunitys to issolate contador early, and their should be more contenders left than just the schlecks and contador by the time saxo or shack or who ever hav shelled the feild ready for andy or lance to attack. How did they manage to beat him during paris nice?
is their no chance somthing like this can happen again?
And as i said before, i dont think AC will be as good with out JB.
no need to attack my opinions mate
 
phillop said:
I predict it will be different this year than last year, mainly because lance and AC are on seperate teams, and the route gives them oportunitys to issolate contador early, and their should be more contenders left than just the schlecks and contador by the time saxo or shack or who ever hav shelled the feild ready for andy or lance to attack. How did they manage to beat him during paris nice?
is their no chance somthing like this can happen again?
And as i said before, i dont think AC will be as good with out JB.
no need to attack my opinions mate

I'm not sure what difference it will make since Lance and AC were both racing for the team. It wasn't like Lance held back, he just didn't have it. I do agree that there is the potential for more players, but I think that is to AC's advantage not disadvantage.

As for Paris-Nice: he forgot to eat. Hunger knock. There is a chance it could happen again, but it is highly unlikely. And really is that a tactic? Hope he forgets to eat?

As for your opinion, I asked a why mate. If you can't support the opinion then just admit that you don't have any reason beyond your belief. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Jun 10, 2009
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Publicus said:
Where did you get this crap from? First of all setting the tempo too high, too soon is disaster for the team setting the tempo as well. Radio Shack won't want to do that principally because Lance doesn't have that next gear that . . . Alberto or Andy has. So that seems like a waste of energy. And let's not forget two important points: (1) he rode with those cats last year--he knows their tempo and (2) he was complaining that at times he wanted them to ride at a higher tempo and they wouldn't.

Why do you expect him not to be stronger next year? It's not like JB dictates his training program. Btw, what tactical genius did JB impart at this year's TdF? Serious question.

Im sure JB does dictate some programmes AC is on, and you cannot say im definately wrong there.
Look at the race smarts AC has shown, with out JB to keep it under control who knows what he will do, paris nice any one?
with out a team to help him out any weakness wil be much easier to capitilise on, and im not saying he showed any this year, im saying i dont expect him to be as strong as he was this year. for many reasons, no JB, no JB program, weak team , have you ever noticed how much faster you train when you have some one to push you?
keep trying to rubbish my opinions if you want, or you can always take them for what they are (my opinions) and remember fighting over the internets like competing in the speical olympics, even if you win your still a ***
 
phillop said:
Im sure JB does dictate some programmes AC is on, and you cannot say im definately wrong there.
Look at the race smarts AC has shown, with out JB to keep it under control who knows what he will do, paris nice any one?
with out a team to help him out any weakness wil be much easier to capitilise on, and im not saying he showed any this year, im saying i dont expect him to be as strong as he was this year. for many reasons, no JB, no JB program, weak team , have you ever noticed how much faster you train when you have some one to push you?
keep trying to rubbish my opinions if you want, or you can always take them for what they are (my opinions) and remember fighting over the internets like competing in the speical olympics, even if you win your still a ***

It's a cycling forum chief. Folks proffer their opinions and others share/rebut/discuss them. If you are that insecure about your opinions you can always not post your opinion.

The bulk of the weak team he had at Paris Nice is now with Radio Shack. JB is very good at finding talent. I don't know that he is tactically
savvy, he's been fortunate to usually have the strongest rider on his squad. He won't this year--despite all of his, Carmichael's and Armstrong's predictions that he will be (pure hype).

But I get it, you don't like AC and you want him to get his comeuppance. Just say that and stop pretending that you are offering a reasoned opinion. :rolleyes:
 
phillop said:
Im sure JB does dictate some programmes AC is on, and you cannot say im definately wrong there.
Look at the race smarts AC has shown, with out JB to keep it under control who knows what he will do, paris nice any one?
with out a team to help him out any weakness wil be much easier to capitilise on, and im not saying he showed any this year, im saying i dont expect him to be as strong as he was this year. for many reasons, no JB, no JB program, weak team , have you ever noticed how much faster you train when you have some one to push you?

I'm sure that Contador will still be the man to beat next year. Martinelli is a very experienced DS and seems to be very race savvy and I'm sure that the more experienced riders that Astana has signed such as Pereiro will be a much better influence than what Contador had at Astana/Discovery.

If the Astana squad settles into a tight unit in a similar way to Saxo-bank and Columbia and work as a genuine team then I'm certain that they have the quality for Contador to wrap up another TdF.

BTW - I'll get back to the OP. Wiggins to finish 10th-15th. My picks for the top 5 are:

1. Contador
2. A Schleck

and Gesink, Nibali and either S.Sanchez or Evans for 3-5
 
Oct 29, 2009
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I expect Wiggins to suffer from "that tricky second album". I can't see him replicate that ride on Mt Ventoux if he isn't riding on a determined euphoric high for that something very special that he never thought he'd be riding for in 2009, but just to maintain 7th or 8th place.

To be honest, I have him 8th or worse, and if you pin me down, I'll go for 10+.

1) the overall field is stronger and more competitive
2) the mountain stages will be (ought to be) far more lively than this year's neutered lot
3) no TTT
4) few TT kms
5) no riding on "heck, I can do this amazing feat!" juice, but "I have to match that performance, now with expectations from a delirious home crowd" to boot.
6) tipped-off competition that Wiggins can perform well above 2008 expectations

On the plus side
1) riding in the "national" strip
2) preparation + team support with this in mind from the outset
3) one year fitter and wiser (which only helps him against 1 of the riders who was ahead of him)

I don't expect this year's Tour de France to be anything like last year's TdF. If it is, with the new guard on the up meeting the old guard on the way down, and Contador on a weak-ish team, without a TTT, little TT kms, the mountains in a more prominent spot, then de TdF is fundamentally broken somewhere, and it will officially be my #3 one, the bemusing break between the spring classics, the Giro and the Vuelta. I suspect it already is, but it would be really officially so, with nobs on.

In 2009, with the TTT under his belt, Wiggins got where he got because he was climbing with only a depleted handful of the normal GT best, most of who were on 1 team (in two halves, with matters settled early, to the frustration of the weaker rider). None of these riders were really attacking each other at all. And when the fireworks were scheduled, we were watching a neutralised fight for 3rd up, which quickly became a fight for 4th, when Lance proved able to match or better Wiggins. What the entire Tour boiled down to was almost a one-stage fight for the first vulnerable rider in GT: his spot. With the race pace being set to suit the guy who came behind Wiggins in the GT. A fight he, somehow, just won. Clinging on for dear life. On what I think will be the race of his life, and one he can rightly be proud of.

I expect Contador to do what he did in the Pyrenees this year (halfway up the hill, not at the end), get antsy himslef after a few jabs by others, and decide to take this early climb, see who can follow him, and plant his marker. I think he will be too nervous not to. I expect him to do that more than once, and I would not be surprised if he overdid it somewhere and pays a price on one of the climbs this year, against 1 key rider, probably Andy. If he doesn't bomb somewhere, we'll all be watching a fight for scraps again.

I hear a lot of people expecting far more attacks, an much earlier, on Contador. What I can't see is why any of the other riders can afford to let the gap appear either. That "let Contador do it" scenario only materialises if the other riders are behind in GC on the escapee, and their only remaining hope is to capitalize on Contador's effort.

Contador can make up the gap to anyone on another ride, at least that's how most of them will read it, I think. I can't think of any other GT contenders who can be confident that he can do the same, with the possible exception of Andy.

I'd say, if anything, it is actually only Contador who can really afford to let an escape from a GT contender succeed. If I had his legs, on the first attack against me, and I felt they were looking at me, I'd sit back look up at the rest, and say, "OK, I'm not gonna, now what? Are you that confident you can afford it"?

I suspect the sharp end will be a lot sharper this year, with more GT contenders who need to do "something" in the mountains. And whoever is able to follow most and put in a good "limit the damage" ride on the stage where they are not, will be at the front.

To be frank, I think that Wiggins ended up fourth, because being part of that "limit the damage" group throughout, was actually enough to be fighting for 3rd up. This year that will mean that you end up much further down the field, as there will be better climbers who will match that, but also be away with the sharp end on at least one day, if not more.

I don't have Wiggins down as someone who can do that too. He'll have to be one class better than he was in 09. And sorry Dim, I just can't see where that would come from (this year?). In a 2010 field where far more riders would have to be disappoint us if they were not up to that task. Wiggins would have to surprise. Again.

Even if he surprised, all he would do is finding himself actuallyride for the same spot. Riding for fourth gave him that something special for the key ride. Will just be in a UK jersey be enough to replicate that special something feeling?

I think the moment he feels that the second time round is much harder, he'll cave on at least one occasion, and won't recover. And slip to a spot that we would think of as a decent accomplishment. If he hadn't gone ahead and put in an amazing #4 ride.

If the field I expect shows up, than I think he would do well to come in in the top 10, barring accidents. So given that he has the millstone of last year around his neck, I'm going for just outside.

Then with the old guard truly gone, and the new guard still gaining strength around him, but with a stronger team, and lower expectations, 2011 will be the year he might match something akin to 2009. And if he actually does it, I'd be impressed.
 
Dec 11, 2009
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As it looks like now I don't think Team Sky will be invited.

But if they do, I'd say there are at least 10 guys who can finish above Wiggins. Of course, can doesn't mean they will.

Contador, Schleck x2, Armstrong, Menchov, Evans, Basso, Sastre, VDV, Leipo, Gesink, Sanchez (not in that order ;)) come to mind.
 
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Pedaaldanser said:
As it looks like now I don't think Team Sky will be invited.

But if they do, I'd say there are at least 10 guys who can finish above Wiggins. Of course, can doesn't mean they will.

Contador, Schleck x2, Armstrong, Menchov, Evans, Basso, Sastre, VDV, Leipo, Gesink, Sanchez (not in that order ;)) come to mind.

and why dont you think they will be invited...

major new sponsor, who is around for the long haul and has a good history of supporting cycling.. some very good riders in the side, strong (at least on the surface) anti doping policy.. who also come from a group that has a lot of media power.. i cant see the aso saying no.. murdoch is probably one of the most powerful corporations in the world..
 
Dec 11, 2009
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Simply because competition for entry into the 2010 is very tough. But I suppose they may pick Sky over Katusha (when I posted that I thought Katusha was sure of a spot but I stand corrected).
 
Jul 23, 2009
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phillop said:
... remember fighting over the internets like competing in the speical olympics, even if you win your still a ***

I love it when people make simple spelling errors while calling another person a ***. Absolutely brilliant. No, not brilliant... ***.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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phillop said:
Im sure JB does dictate some programmes AC is on, and you cannot say im definately wrong there.
Look at the race smarts AC has shown, with out JB to keep it under control who knows what he will do, paris nice any one?
with out a team to help him out any weakness wil be much easier to capitilise on, and im not saying he showed any this year, im saying i dont expect him to be as strong as he was this year. for many reasons, no JB, no JB program, weak team , have you ever noticed how much faster you train when you have some one to push you?
keep trying to rubbish my opinions if you want, or you can always take them for what they are (my opinions) and remember fighting over the internets like competing in the speical olympics, even if you win your still a ***

Did you follow Paris-Nice. Yeah Contador had an issue one day and lost time. The next day he broke away from the peloton and was only pulled in near the end by a few riders Franck Schleck and Luis Leon Sanchez, whose entire teams, Saxo and Caisse worked together to get them to Contador. Contador tore chunks out of everyone that day. JB pushing Contador? Maybe in the peace and sanity stakes but nothing else. Did you hear the bile spewing from Bruneel and Armstrongs mouths during the Tour? It wasn't constructive in nature, but a destructive tone.
 
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blackcat said:
I reckon Wiggins can win. He is the only one that can beat Contador, until Cancellara loses 8 kgs. But I dont think 2010 is his year. '11.

Schleck will need 90 seconds on Contador, for the final tt. Wiggins could pull back 60 seconds on Contador.

Watch the Australians "claim" him as their own. Since his late father was an Australian pro, whenever the Australian's unearth "foreign talent" like Russell Crowe, they always put their hand up, and make them their own. With Sunderland and Sutton, they will claim a win.

Whilst Aussies do like to 'claim' non-australians who have adopted out lifestyle, I can almost guarantee you that we will not be claiming Wiggins. Maybe Mike Tomilaris from SBS will, but not the aussie fans, or serious cycling fans (like us on the forums).

One thing aussies don't do, is have any kind of fondness for British people. Ever heard of the Ashes? Greatest cricket rivalry in the history of the sport. Even tho the Twig has an Aussie father, the fact that wiggins is British, that's a no no. no claiming there. When it comes to sport, Britain/England and Australia do not mix. Especially if wiggins is knocking off our man Cadel from a tour podium (which he won't, but "if"), the aussies will be behind the guy from Katherine, Australia rather than the guy from Gent, Belgium - hey maybe the belgians will claim him?
 
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Mountain Goat said:
Whilst Aussies do like to 'claim' non-australians who have adopted out lifestyle, I can almost guarantee you that we will not be claiming Wiggins. Maybe Mike Tomilaris from SBS will, but not the aussie fans, or serious cycling fans (like us on the forums).

One thing aussies don't do, is have any kind of fondness for British people. Ever heard of the Ashes? Greatest cricket rivalry in the history of the sport. Even tho the Twig has an Aussie father, the fact that wiggins is British, that's a no no. no claiming there. When it comes to sport, Britain/England and Australia do not mix. Especially if wiggins is knocking off our man Cadel from a tour podium (which he won't, but "if"), the aussies will be behind the guy from Katherine, Australia rather than the guy from Gent, Belgium - hey maybe the belgians will claim him?

An interesting comment. It would seem that Australians tend to back the underdog, the bloke who is punching above his weight, you may find Wiggo in this category next year, and maybe, just maybe Aussie fans will support him, and claim him as their own.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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msjett said:
An interesting comment. It would seem that Australians tend to back the underdog, the bloke who is punching above his weight, you may find Wiggo in this category next year, and maybe, just maybe Aussie fans will support him, and claim him as their own.

If Cadel isn't there, then yes that will be the case.