Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Do we agree that one would have to be amongst the 5% biggest talents for one to be regarded as an exceptional talent?

What talents are you talking of?

The talent to:
* dope to a hct of 64?
it is known some people die from such a high hct, so, Bjarne had the talent to survive this
* to do multiple blood transfusions during the Tour
it is known drawing so much blood pre - Tour is kinda a health problem to compete, yet Bjarne won the RR and TT for the Danish Championships in 1996
* to lie and label the innocent Rodolfo Massi as the pharmacist of the peloton, in front of the camera, without even smiling?

I can go on and on and on about Bjarne, he had certain talents indeed. The talent to lead the first autobus is one of them.

Is being a [super]responder to PED's a talent?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Vayer is such a hater http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentra..., performance expert and author of Not Normal

Edit: @20 min

 

[Le Baroudeur]

What talents are you talking of?

The talent to:
* dope to a hct of 64?
it is known some people die from such a high hct, so, Bjarne had the talent to survive this
* to do multiple blood transfusions during the Tour
it is known drawing so much blood pre - Tour is kinda a health problem to compete, yet Bjarne won the RR and TT for the Danish Championships in 1996
* to lie and label the innocent Rodolfo Massi as the pharmacist of the peloton, in front of the camera, without even smiling?

I can go on and on and on about Bjarne, he had certain talents indeed. The talent to lead the first autobus is one of them.

Is being a [super]responder to PED's a talent?

You can go on and on impercinating Buncombe all you wan't but at least try and stick to the facts. Bjarne deserves the flack he gets for. What he did, but the myths don't do anything to help the credibility of those hurling it with an agenda.

56 not 64. Incidentally, natural levels have been recorded in the high 60's (genetics) at sea level and into 70's at altitude (hypoxia) without death or complication. It's all relative not absolute.

Blood transfussions? According to who? Your hero the forever honest TwoTylers?

Was Rodolfo Massi banned or not?

 

[IndianCyclist]

What talents are you talking of?

The talent to:
* dope to a hct of 64?
it is known some people die from such a high hct, so, Bjarne had the talent to survive this
* to do multiple blood transfusions during the Tour
it is known drawing so much blood pre - Tour is kinda a health problem to compete, yet Bjarne won the RR and TT for the Danish Championships in 1996
* to lie and label the innocent Rodolfo Massi as the pharmacist of the peloton, in front of the camera, without even smiling?

I can go on and on and on about Bjarne, he had certain talents indeed. The talent to lead the first autobus is one of them.

Is being a [super]responder to PED's a talent?

The talent of not getting caught before the statute of limitations
The art of giving "i did this alone" confession.
The art of writing a book after confession.
The talent of continuing in cycling without serious repercussions.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

56 not 64. Incidentally, natural levels have been recorded in the high 60's (genetics) at sea level and into 70's at altitude (hypoxia) without death or complication. It's all relative not absolute.

Blood transfussions? According to who? Your hero the forever honest TwoTylers?

Was Rodolfo Massi banned or not?

56 was at Gewiss, that only gave him third spot in Paris. 64 gave him the win. You dont have to believe Jeff d'Hondt of course, indeed not the most trustworthy person in the world of cycling, but hey, who is? Riis? Pevenage? Godefroot?

Rodolfo was a bit of a joke of me, that Casino team was so funny. A bit like Vini Fantini now, must be a coincidence.

No, I dont take Hamilton's words as a gospel, sorry. Why would he lie over such a thing? Maybe he lied, we'll never know.

 

[Bala Verde]

Does anyone have the text of the new Spanish laws against doping?

http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/06/13/actualidad/1371120767_143498.html

El Congreso de los Diputados aprobó ayer de forma definitiva la Ley Antidopaje, uno de los factores determinantes en la carrera de Madrid hacia los Juegos Olímpicos de 2020. La nueva norma entrará en vigor 20 días después de su publicación en el BOE, el 4 de julio, coincidiendo con la última presentación de la candidatura madrileña ante los miembros del COI en Lausana (Suiza), el 3 y 4 de julio

It might affect some Spanish riders preparation (wink wink), and I am even wondering how many foreigners who established themselves in Spain - good weather! - are going to move...

 

[observer]

Will Bert juice?

Does the Pope pi$$ in the woods?

I'm not sure, are bears catholic?

 

[King Boonen]

If I was Bertie I'd juice to the max, get beat by Froome, get caught and then point out he beat possibly the best cyclist of his generation while he was maxing out his drug stack.

 

[Coolair2970]

What talents are you talking of?

The talent to:
* dope to a hct of 64?
it is known some people die from such a high hct, so, Bjarne had the talent to survive this
* to do multiple blood transfusions during the Tour
it is known drawing so much blood pre - Tour is kinda a health problem to compete, yet Bjarne won the RR and TT for the Danish Championships in 1996
* to lie and label the innocent Rodolfo Massi as the pharmacist of the peloton, in front of the camera, without even smiling?

I can go on and on and on about Bjarne, he had certain talents indeed. The talent to lead the first autobus is one of them.

Is being a [super]responder to PED's a talent?

Riis might have done a lot of PEDs but there has never been any talk about blood transfusions.

I happened to be present at the pressconference where he admitted to doping. He mentioned a lot of different stuff he had taken, but not a word of blood transfusions.

By the way, why should he transfuse blood when he already had enough epo in there to win 3 TDFs. Like you write yourself. There where no limits in 1996.

If you then read his book, he still doesn't mention blood transfusuions. Actually the first I ever heard about Riis and bloodtransfusions where when i read Tylers book.

 

[LaFlorecita]

If I was Bertie I'd juice to the max, get beat by Froome, get caught and then point out he beat possibly the best cyclist of his generation while he was maxing out his drug stack.

Haha that would be cool

 

[Netserk]

There's a lot Riis doesn't mention. If I was him I also wouldn't admit to transfusion just after Puerto.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

There's a lot Riis doesn't mention. If I was him I also wouldn't admit to transfusion just after Puerto.

He doesn't admit to being abducted by aliens either, probably just as well considering Alien had just hit the cinema screens.

 

[hrotha]

Admitting to doing transfusions puts him in the cutting edge, which gives him an advantage over his competitors, which diminishes his win. Most dopers rationalize it as "making it a level playing field", so saying you had the best program doesn't come easy. Riis didn't admit to having boosted his hematocrit to ludicrous heights either, and he actually rejected the "Mr 60%" thing.

 

[webbie146]

Dr.Ferrari quote: "Contador will be ready at TdF.
Froome won easy the Dauphine, but history shows who is too strong or spend too much in this race will compete the TdF not the same level."

He also said that Contador is still his clear favorite going into this tdf.

The expert has spoken putting my money on contador this weekend.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

Admitting to doing transfusions puts him in the cutting edge, which gives him an advantage over his competitors, which diminishes his win. Most dopers rationalize it as "making it a level playing field", so saying you had the best program doesn't come easy. Riis didn't admit to having boosted his hematocrit to ludicrous heights either, and he actually rejected the "Mr 60%" thing.

Erm, not quite, transfusions have been around since the 17th Century, and confirmed in sport as far back as the 1970's. Hardly cutting edge, and highly likely to have been in use well before records indicate. EPO on the other hand...

Further, whats with the "most"? Sport attracts a wide cross section of society, including many personality types both introvert and extrovert. You will have a hard time convincing anybody learned about blanket personality types among dopers let alone that Bjarne is anything like Tyler or Jaksche in that regard.

There are way too many blanket assumptions upon motive and method being thrown around here. Personal, individual, institutional, national, these are not the same, and for the latter often only a small part of a greater effort to achieve political gain.

 

[hrotha]

Erm, not quite, transfusions have been around since the 17th Century, and confirmed in sport as far back as the 1970's. Hardly cutting edge, and highly likely to have been in use well before records indicate. EPO on the other hand...

Further, whats with the "most"? Sport attracts a wide cross section of society, including many personality types both introvert and extrovert. You will have a hard time convincing anybody learned about blanket personality types among dopers let alone that Bjarne is anything like Tyler or Jaksche in that regard.

There are way too many blanket assumptions upon motive and method being thrown around here. Personal, individual, institutional, national, these are not the same, and for the latter often only a small part of a greater effort to achieve political gain.

Evidence for use of transfusions in competition before Riis is scarce. There are few documented cases, the vast majority of them in one-day events, because the logistics made it hard, inconvenient and dangerous to use transfusions during a three-week race, and since they had EPO in the 90s most people didn't bother. By 1996 EPO was nearly universal and hardly anyone was using transfusions. So yes, cutting edge.

The "most" is warranted by the empirical evidence, you just have to look at the confessions we've got. Everything else is just obfuscation.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

Evidence for use of transfusions in competition before Riis is scarce. There are few documented cases, the vast majority of them in one-day events, because the logistics made it hard, inconvenient and dangerous to use transfusions during a three-week race, and since they had EPO in the 90s most people didn't bother. By 1996 EPO was nearly universal and hardly anyone was using transfusions. So yes, cutting edge.

The "most" is warranted by the empirical evidence, you just have to look at the confessions we've got. Everything else is just obfuscation.

Sorry Hrotha, but this patently false. Further, your closing statement is cringeworthy in both naiveté and misdirection. Sport was founded under a veil, and has continued as a medium of control ever since. Don't insult individuals caught between the power plays of world politics to the benefit of foot soldiers and policy makers running shod over public good-faith for gains of domestic control or national ambition.

 

[Race Radio]

Sorry Hrotha, but this patently false. Further, your closing statement is cringeworthy in both naiveté and misdirection. Sport was founded under a veil, and has continued as a medium of control ever since. Don't insult individuals caught between the power plays of world politics to the benefit of foot soldiers and policy makers running shod over public good-faith for gains of domestic control or national ambition.

No, Hrotha is correct. This has been discussed over and over. Certainly transfusions were used in controlled environments but prior to Riis there is no solid evidence of them being used in GT's

 

[M Sport]

No, Hrotha is correct. This has been discussed over and over. Certainly transfusions were used in controlled environments but prior to Riis there is no solid evidence of them being used in GT's

Moser in the 1984 Giro. There are some pretty reliable statements about that.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

No, Hrotha is correct. This has been discussed over and over. Certainly transfusions were used in controlled environments but prior to Riis there is no solid evidence of them being used in GT's

What evidence against Riis? Who mentioned GT's? Controlled environments and legal technicalities make the 84 olympics acceptable? And we all remember the "miracle" in 80 don't we... Just one of many ways to make sure the "just" flag tops the podium in the spirit of fair sport...

 

[Race Radio]

Moser in the 1984 Giro. There are some pretty reliable statements about that.

No there isn't. In fact the opposite. Moser, and Conconi, have talked about how they used blood doping for the hour record but also have been clear they did not use it in the Giro.

 

[Race Radio]

What evidence against Riis? Who mentioned GT's? Controlled environments and legal technicalities make the 84 olympics acceptable? And we all remember the "miracle" in 80 don't we... Just one of many ways to make sure the "just" flag tops the podium in the spirit of fair sport...

I suggest you read Hrotha's post again.

Transfusions in the sport have been discussed over, and over, and over here.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

I suggest you read Hrotha's post again.

Transfusions in the sport have been discussed over, and over, and over here.

No thanks. His origional aspursion was based upon a profound assumption of unified phycological profiling based on "confessions". In short, 'everybody stoped doping in 2006'.

 

[hrotha]

No thanks. His origional aspursion was based upon a profound assumption of unified phycological profiling based on "confessions". In short, 'everybody stoped doping in 2006'.

The what now?

Controlled environments and legal technicalities make the 84 olympics acceptable?

Who said it was morally acceptable to use blood doping for one-day events? That's not what was being discussed here. We're discussing transfusions in GTs as an advantage Riis allegedly had over his competitors. The 84 Olympics are irrelevant, as is Moser's hour record.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

The what now?

A pattern that may or may not be convergent thinking.

Who said it was morally acceptable to use blood doping for one-day events? That's not what was being discussed here. We're discussing transfusions in GTs as an advantage Riis allegedly had over his competitors. The 84 Olympics are irrelevant, as is Moser's hour record.

Actually we're discussing off topic conjecture introduced in an off topic post, based on testimony of hearsay from a member of a camp know to have institutionally abused a methodology of advantage, then being retroactively applied to a third party as an example of convergent thinking and subsequently presented as evidence in support of that conjecture, all the while dismissing the reality that motive isn't subject to a form of monotheism, while surmising that the source of the hearsay has given full disclosure despite that being contextually highly unlikely, but the subject of it has not.

Mild hysteria at best, and neither on topic or particularly relevant to the thread topic which ironically is in itself loaded by being based on an assumption and conjecture. The only thing being resolved is the degree of partisanship existing here, which is unfortunate, because progress is clearly hampered by that partisanship feeding hysteria by focussing on the wrong issues.