Teams & Riders Will e-bikes be the end of cycling?

[KoopaCycling]

I do think belgians need to appreciate their current champions more. Maybe i'm just being pessimistic about it all but... Wether out-and-about or in bike shops, fake bikes are everywhere. The amount of motorists pretending to be cyclists is just staggering these days. And whilst this may be good to improve car traffic jams, i can't say I like it much. And might have negative effects for our cycling future.

 

[Andre]

I do think belgians need to appreciate their current champions more. Maybe i'm just being pessimistic about it all but... Wether out-and-about or in bike shops, fake bikes are everywhere. The amount of motorists pretending to be cyclists is just staggering these days. And whilst this may be good to improve car traffic jams, i can't say I like it much.

are you talking about E-bikes?

 

[KoopaCycling]

are you talking about E-bikes?

e-bike, fat bikes, pedelecs,.. all that fake stuff. at the end of the day they are motorists riding on bike lanes. Making bike lanes feel less welcome to actual cyclists.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Nah people who like to ride will keep riding. Some people who like to ride but don't like to ride hard and don’t like to drive (or can’t drive) will stop driving to ride e-bikes. And people who can't keep up (like my wife) will ride more because they keep up with a motor. It's a net positive IMO, though I could be wrong. I personally wouldn't be caught dead owning one unless I was bike commuting every day for 10+ miles and just viewing it as transportation.

 

[Cookster15]

Nah people who like to ride will keep riding. People who don't like to ride will stop driving to ride e-bikes. And people who can't keep up (like my wife) will ride more because they keep up with a motor. It's a net positive IMO, though I could be wrong. I personally wouldn't be caught dead owning one unless I was bike commuting every day for 10+ miles and just viewing it as transportation.

Agree. Doom and gloom over e-bikes is misplaced.

 

[Extinction]

Agree. Doom and gloom over e-bikes is misplaced.

It's the effect on upcoming generations, who shall increasingly look for the easy way out. At a certain point, the mindset will refuse to ride the "old way," that is with human power. And the sport won't have enough base and so die.

 

[Berniece]

It's the effect on upcoming generations, who shall increasingly look for the easy way out. At a certain point, the mindset will refuse to ride the "old way," that is with human power. And the sport won't have enough base and so die.

There are bigger things to worry about that might be the end of the sport than e-bikes

 

[KoopaCycling]

Nah people who like to ride will keep riding. Some people who like to ride but don't like to ride hard and don’t like to drive (or can’t drive) will stop driving to ride e-bikes. And people who can't keep up (like my wife) will ride more because they keep up with a motor. It's a net positive IMO, though I could be wrong. I personally wouldn't be caught dead owning one unless I was bike commuting every day for 10+ miles and just viewing it as transportation.

I can see the point you are making but i think you are wrong about it being a net positive for cycling. Where I am at, quite a lot of people stopped enjoying taking a relaxing bike ride alongside the channel with their family these past few years. Reason being is cause that route alongside the water has been completely taking over by e-bikes zooming past at high speeds. They don't enjoy riding there anymore, and def. won't take their small kids to ride alongside them, cause they find it too dangerous. The people with the racebikes still ride there. But the families are dissapearing. And that is terrible for the future. Cause that was the place families took their children for a bike ride during spring/summer. Now they ain't taking them for bike rides anymore or a whole lot less. All you see is race bikes (20%), electric variants (75%), and teenagers on regular bikes (5%). The families and children are gone.

At the end of the day they are no different from mopeds. Don't mistake silence and the pedal movement for actual cycling. They could easily just remove the pedals and make them stationary. Add a throttle. and you get a silent electric moped. cause that is what it is.

I'll admit i'm being pessismistic. We remain a bike country. But we are a bike country until we are not.

 

[Berniece]

I can see the point you are making but i think you are wrong about it being a net positive for cycling. Where I am at, quite a lot of people stopped enjoying taking a relaxing bike ride alongside the channel with their family these past few years. Reason being is cause that route alongside the water has been completely taking over by e-bikes zooming past at high speeds. They don't enjoy riding there anymore, and def. won't take their small kids to ride alongside them, cause they find it too dangerous. The people with the racebikes still ride there. But the families are dissapearing. And that is terrible for the future. Cause that was the place families took their children for a bike ride during spring/summer. Now they ain't taking them for bike rides anymore or a whole lot less. All you see is race bikes (20%), electric variants (75%), and teenagers on regular bikes (5%). The families and children are gone.

At the end of the day they are no different from mopeds. Don't mistake silence and the pedal movement for actual cycling. They could easily just remove the pedals and make them stationary. Add a throttle. and you get a silent electric moped. cause that is what it is.

I'll admit i'm being pessismistic. We remain a bike country. But we are a bike country until we are not.

Even though it's not like riding a regular bike, it's still interpreted as riding a bike. People don't seem to have any interest in changing such a bike for electric mopeds. So that part won't influence the sport.

BUT those bikes making it more dangerous and thus less children riding a bike for fun will.

 

[Extinction]

There are bigger things to worry about that might be the end of the sport than e-bikes

Like traffic and parents not wanting their kids to risk their lives to practice the sport. But, here me out, e-bikes are the bane of cycling.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nah people who like to ride will keep riding. Some people who like to ride but don't like to ride hard and don’t like to drive (or can’t drive) will stop driving to ride e-bikes. And people who can't keep up (like my wife) will ride more because they keep up with a motor. It's a net positive IMO, though I could be wrong. I personally wouldn't be caught dead owning one unless I was bike commuting every day for 10+ miles and just viewing it as transportation.

More people are getting some exercise because of e-bikes than before, I believe. Since my wife got one, she goes to work with it, while previously she took the car. It also means less cars on the road. But also (over)crowded bikelanes.
I don't think it will impact the actual sport. People who like cycling because of the sport, will still do so. People are still running marathons even though bikes, cars, trains, busses, subways exist.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

If the first few posts here seem a bit unfocussed, it'll be because they were a tangent in the Evenepoel thread that I have forked into its own discussion, which might develop into interesting discussion.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Even though it's not like riding a regular bike, it's still interpreted as riding a bike. People don't seem to have any interest in changing such a bike for electric mopeds. So that part won't influence the sport.

BUT those bikes making it more dangerous and thus less children riding a bike for fun will.

Isn't that more a psychological thing than a physical thing. People been riding their bycicles their whole lives. Just about everyone at one point owned a bycicle and learned to ride one. Only a few rode mopeds. Plus the optics of it all. The way I see it, people just want to keep up the illusion that they are riding a bike. But i'll give you that if psychologically speaking everyone continues to see it as riding an actual bike, the part of them not riding real bikes won't impact the sport much.

I do think you agree about the part where e-bikes make the environment less hospital for regular cyclists (family and children). Not so much for those already bitten by the sport, and riding racebikes. Children are the future however. And if families are stymied as a result, it does not bode well for cycling. Cause it is within families that the love for cycling is usually nurtured. Maybe not on the professional level but on the level of simply wanting to go and ride your bike.

Unless you are 70+ years old, and/or suffering from muscle problems, i would say people riding an electric bike are barely doing anything useful when it comes to exercising. Just movement. I know you can choose different settings and all. But at the end of the day i genuinely believe most are threading air. So I don't quite follow the exercise logic.

People aren't riding e-bikes for exercise but out of convenience imo. If you ride an e-bike you are not tired when you reach your destination. You ain't sweaty. You can easily go longer distances. People tend to not want to reach their work all tired and sweaty in the morning. They rather cruise to it. The e-bike is basically on alternative for people who dislike being stuck in car traffic (& cheaper 2), bus/trains are usually no good in this country. I don't see those people pushing the needle when it comes to stimulating the future. But i will say given that psychologically speaking people tend to equate e-bikes with actual bikes. Maybe the children of such commuters will see their parents riding a 'bike', and think postitive about cycling in general. I would love for someone to start up some statistics. Cause whilst I understand the point people are trying to make, and that they therefore believe e-bikes are a net positive. I believe they are a net negative.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I was at a bike event a couple of weeks ago and chatting to a guy who described himself as just like a car driver, but on a bike. He uses it to get to work, short distance socials, small shopping trips. That is going to be the market for e-bikes on the whole, and encouraging people to become part of that group is what most of our town centre cycling infrastructure is about. They have, hereabouts at least, been taken up massively by food delivery bikes: when the law catches up with e-scooters, the two will fill roughly the same niche.

I contrasted myself to him as a jogger, who aims to do occasional marathons, but on a bike. In that culture, e-bikes that are road-bike style are occasionally appearing: I know that some of the guys in my Sunday morning ride group have one that they use if riding in much hillier areas than my part of the country, and one was used on the club ride the other week (a member even older than me), almost as a social experiment, but was essentially a heavier bike to push around apart from on the small number of hills when it was advantageous.

I can see younger people who are use an e-bike/e-scooter as a mini-city-car being encouraged by that to get a "real" bike, having developed a taste for that type of openness. And if the e-bike can open the joys of country lane cycling to more people, I see that as a good thing: they do not have to reduce the exercise element to zero, and maybe will make bike outings as a family (some self-propelled, some battery-assisted) a more realistic option for some (admittedly, not a very cheap option). From such beginnings, can the interests of the children grow to the competitive years.

So no, I don't see the existence of e-bikes as a negative at all. (Now the way food delivery guys ride them: that's a different issue)

 

[jmdirt]

My $.01: If it has a motor, its a motorcycle.

Positive: people who ride motorcycles may be more aware of two wheelers when they are driving their cars.

Concern: In my neck of the woods there are a lot of 10-15 year olds riding their motorcycles all over without any regard for pedestrians or cars (or an understanding of traffic laws). I think that there will be an increase in accidents, hopefully none serious or fatal.

I also think that there is a legal discussion here: riding a motorcycle 20, 25, 30 mph on residential streets requires a license that most (none) of these kids don't have.

I'll come back later if I remember, and discuss how I feel about motorcycles on non motorized trails.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

My $.01: If it has a motor, its a motorcycle.

Positive: people who ride motorcycles may be more aware of two wheelers when they are driving their cars.

Concern: In my neck of the woods there are a lot of 10-15 year olds riding their motorcycles all over without any regard for pedestrians or cars (or an understanding of traffic laws). I think that there will be an increase in accidents, hopefully none serious or fatal.

I also think that there is a legal discussion here: riding a motorcycle 20, 25, 30 mph on residential streets requires a license that most (none) of these kids don't have.

I'll come back later if I remember, and discuss how I feel about motorcycles on non motorized trails.

E-bikes, here in the UK, are meant to be speed limited to 15.5 mph (25 km/h): they can be ridden without licence/insurance etc (as a bike). Electric motor bikes also exist, but would be subject to the laws for motorbikes; however, there are certainly those who would take advantage of police not immediately knowing what official designation their machine comes under.

 

[Unchained]

E-bikes have opened up bicycling and 2 wheel transportation like nothing else in 100 years. Many people use them for commuting. I know of stories ( some first hand) of riders of limited abilities participating in cycling because of E-bikes.
Riders who would otherwise not ride a bike because of physical issues now can get as much or as little boost as needed. Riders who are 50,60 can level the playing field with riders half their age.
As Dirt points out, calling something with a motor a bicycle is fuzzy for sure. I share that view, but I also think that anything that gets people out from behind the wheel and out in the open air on 2 wheels is good overall.
In Southern California, there are thousands of Ebikes and millions of horror stories, you name it, Ebikes on hiking trails, Ebikes on sidewalks, Ebikes able to go with 40+ mph traffic, pedestrian accidents, many many communities passing laws, many of them emergency laws about problems with Ebikes..so it's not all roses.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Myp90HUELGU&pp=ygUUZSBiaWtlIGxhd3MgY2FybHNiYWQ%3D

 

[red_flanders]

My main experience with them is mountain biking. We had a great, active group of avid MTB dudes, but we're aging. One guy got and eBike and started following the group up the climbs, which for him, was fine as he was the slowest climber in the group. Fast on the downs. Then another guy got one, and then the dominoes started to fall. Out of a group of 10 who were very active, we're down to 4 who don't have an eBike. The group has fractured into motorized and "analog" (I just call them mountain bikes), and we don't ride together as much as we used to. It's neither positive or negative, it's just change. I'll get one at some point I guess, maybe when I hit the next decade. Ridden them a few times, but just not a thing I desire, and I need to WANT something to spend that kind of coin on it.

They do result in MANY more laps at our local spot, UCSC. There is now the constant hum of motors on the climb, and one is constantly being passed, sometimes in an unsafe and certainly discourteous manner. That's a negative. They also pound the crap out of the trails, beating in braking bumps and tearing up berms at more than double the rate at which it happened before the eHordes came along. That's negative.

It also brings change in terms of WHO is riding. It used to be a dedicated group of fairly hard-core men and women who dedicated significant time to the sport in terms of staying fit. Now dilettantes with little to no experience fill the trails, and the unavoidable conflicts around passing, bike-handling, and trail maintenance come up. I don't love it, but it's here to stay. eBikes now outnumber bikes on the main trails I ride.

On the other hand my wife and I can ride together with her on an eBike and me on my analog. That's very positive. I like my wife.

 

[jmdirt]

Mountain bikes still out number emotorbikes in the Boise front (85/15 weekdays, 75/25 weekends). They definitely hammer the trails more (heavier bikes, mostly less skilled riders...), and 95% of emotorbike riders have nearly zero trail etiquette. The other thing is that more riders are able to get to the trails that were once only accessible to people with higher levels of fitness, the problem with that lies in that it also requires more skill to get back out/down.

The first time that a guy in old skate shoes, mesh basketball shorts and a full face helmet passed me on a tough climb going twice the speed that I was it irked me, but I got over that pretty quickly because I have plenty of stress in my life, I'm not adding that.

I also own an ICE motorcycle (a small displacement dual sport). I've been riding moto since 1973, mountain bikes about 15 years less than that. I've learned to avoid saying never, but it's highly unlikely that I will ever own an electric, bicycle based motorcycle.

Side note to that: a guy who I used to ride dirt bikes with has a $15,000 Specialized S-Works Turbo emoto that he takes to the ORV parks nearly every weekend, and he insists that its more fun than dirt bikes. Replacing a dirt bike makes more sense to me than replacing a mountain bike. The big BUT there though is the reason I sold my last dirt bike and eventually bought a dual sport is because I was done driving every time that I wanted to ride. My driveway to the trailhead is a 10 minute spin, the drive to an ORV area is 50-80 minutes.

 

[jmdirt]

E-bikes have opened up bicycling and 2 wheel transportation like nothing else in 100 years. Many people use them for commuting. I know of stories ( some first hand) of riders of limited abilities participating in cycling because of E-bikes.
Riders who would otherwise not ride a bike because of physical issues now can get as much or as little boost as needed. Riders who are 50,60 can level the playing field with riders half their age.
As Dirt points out, calling something with a motor a bicycle is fuzzy for sure. I share that view, but I also think that anything that gets people out from behind the wheel and out in the open air on 2 wheels is good overall.
In Southern California, there are thousands of Ebikes and millions of horror stories, you name it, Ebikes on hiking trails, Ebikes on sidewalks, Ebikes able to go with 40+ mph traffic, pedestrian accidents, many many communities passing laws, many of them emergency laws about problems with Ebikes..so it's not all roses.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Myp90HUELGU&pp=ygUUZSBiaWtlIGxhd3MgY2FybHNiYWQ%3D

I'm definitely not 'opposed' to emoto on the roads, but IMO users should be required to have a license just like with other motor vehicles, and they should follow the same traffic laws as all other motor vehicles. That likely wouldn't eliminate any adults who would benefit. I could also see a 'learners permit' type provision for younger users so that a kid who can't get to (fill in the blank) can ride their emoto there.

EDIT: I knew that I typed this, but I just couldn't find it (this was from a "Are emotos worth it' thread):
Anecdotal example of 1: My brother in-law lives near the top of a hill so the end of every ride is a difficult climb. He started driving to a parking lot near the bottom (which he hated doing). Then other climbs in his various loops got harder so his loops got more limited. He bought an ebike and he could ride all of his loops AND make the climb back to his house. Better mentally and physically for him. FYI, he got a hardtail mountain bike and put slicks on it because he needed the more upright position due to neck/shoulder/back issues.

 

[red_flanders]

Mountain bikes still out number emotorbikes in the Boise front (85/15 weekdays, 75/25 weekends).

Nice to hear. Same up in Humboldt County.

I think a lot of it is a bay area thing. Just a ton of money floating around in these parts.