Will the Tour of Switzerland ever be ?

[Gigs_98]

Re:

The racing there is better than the most one-week races.

Maybe it has something to do with the big guys skipping the race. No dominant rider.

I actually think the racing at the dauphine has often been better than in the tds. Remember the last stages of the 2014 and 2017 dauphine? Or the col de la madeleine state in 2016 (where the best part of the stage was unfortunately not broadcasted) I don't remember stages that good in recent tour de suisse editions.

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

Didn't this used to be regarded as the fourth grand tour?

Yes, there was even a period where it probably was considered more important than the Vuelta.
On the other hand recently his importance has fallen sharply.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

The racing there is better than the most one-week races.

Maybe it has something to do with the big guys skipping the race. No dominant rider.

I actually think the racing at the dauphine has often been better than in the tds. Remember the last stages of the 2014 and 2017 dauphine? Or the col de la madeleine state in 2016 (where the best part of the stage was unfortunately not broadcasted) I don't remember stages that good in recent tour de suisse editions.

...the Solden stage is always nice, particularly in '15 .

I would love a two-week TofS, reshuffle the calendar to keep that extra week like in '18 between Giro and Tour, push back La Vuelta (how far/much) and squeeze Switzerland between Tour and Vuelta, with at least two weeks (I would say 3) between Switzerland and Vuelta. That wuld make combinations interesting:

Giro-Vuelta or Giro-TofS or Giro-TofS-Vuelta
Tour-Vuelta or Tour-TofS. The Tour-TofS-Vuelta looks like too much .

Maybe like this: May week 1-2-3 Giro, July week 2-3-4 Tour, last week of August and first week of September TofS, October week 1-2-3 or 2-3-4 Vuelta.

 

[WheelofGear]

Sounds like a fantastic idea, Tonton!

With one of the stages being inspired by the great Züri-Metzgete. Instead of four laps of the final circuit, you could have two in order to make it more stage race friendly.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

The racing there is better than the most one-week races.

Maybe it has something to do with the big guys skipping the race. No dominant rider.

I actually think the racing at the dauphine has often been better than in the tds. Remember the last stages of the 2014 and 2017 dauphine? Or the col de la madeleine state in 2016 (where the best part of the stage was unfortunately not broadcasted) I don't remember stages that good in recent tour de suisse editions.

...the Solden stage is always nice, particularly in '15 .

I would love a two-week TofS, reshuffle the calendar to keep that extra week like in '18 between Giro and Tour, push back La Vuelta (how far/much) and squeeze Switzerland between Tour and Vuelta, with at least two weeks (I would say 3) between Switzerland and Vuelta. That wuld make combinations interesting:

Giro-Vuelta or Giro-TofS or Giro-TofS-Vuelta
Tour-Vuelta or Tour-TofS. The Tour-TofS-Vuelta looks like too much .

Maybe like this: May week 1-2-3 Giro, July week 2-3-4 Tour, last week of August and first week of September TofS, October week 1-2-3 or 2-3-4 Vuelta.

I think that you keep it at 9 days, but race it in mid to late May. This will mean that the race will be at the same time as the Giro, but not many riders race Swiss after the Giro currently, and if they are then they probably shouldn't. Bringing the race forward some two or three weeks will mean that TDF riders can use it as preparation, and as a proper second race to target on their schedule. It would be far enough before the TDF for riders to be able to hit a mini peak there and the standard of the TDS will rise substantially, to the level that it should be at.

The negatives to such a proposal are that the race would encounter the same weather issues as the Giro, and can TV networks broadcast two major cycling stage races at the same time (well Paris-Nice and T-A crossover so I don't see why not)?

 

[VO2 Max]

Re:

A fourth GT will never happen unless the Vuelta folds or something. Unfortunately.

Money talks. If T-Mob hadn't blown over in 2006 and some big German firm had thrown a ton of €€€ at it then it would be have been squeezed into the calendar somewhere. Of course if there really were to be a 4th GT now then it would be the Tour of the Arabian Peninsula or the Tour of 河北.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Didn't this used to be regarded as the fourth grand tour?

Never heard of it that way.

 

[Escarabajo]

Making space for the Tour of Switzerland between the GT's treating like it was the 4th Grand Tour is not even a serious consideration.
Sorry but no.

Additionally, I have found some nice racing at the Tour of Switzerland over the years with nice stages. Maybe the lack of the big GC contenders have made for nice racing.

The year that Cancellara won the route was almost designed for him since he was the Swiss hero and they thought that he deserved to win the home race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Almost designed? How about super designed for the sole purpose of Cancellara winning?

But we also have to remember that he was incredible strong in that race, no matter how much it was designed with him in mind.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

The racing there is better than the most one-week races.

Maybe it has something to do with the big guys skipping the race. No dominant rider.

I actually think the racing at the dauphine has often been better than in the tds. Remember the last stages of the 2014 and 2017 dauphine? Or the col de la madeleine state in 2016 (where the best part of the stage was unfortunately not broadcasted) I don't remember stages that good in recent tour de suisse editions.

...the Solden stage is always nice, particularly in '15 .

I would love a two-week TofS, reshuffle the calendar to keep that extra week like in '18 between Giro and Tour, push back La Vuelta (how far/much) and squeeze Switzerland between Tour and Vuelta, with at least two weeks (I would say 3) between Switzerland and Vuelta. That wuld make combinations interesting:

Giro-Vuelta or Giro-TofS or Giro-TofS-Vuelta
Tour-Vuelta or Tour-TofS. The Tour-TofS-Vuelta looks like too much .

Maybe like this: May week 1-2-3 Giro, July week 2-3-4 Tour, last week of August and first week of September TofS, October week 1-2-3 or 2-3-4 Vuelta.

I think that you keep it at 9 days, but race it in mid to late May. This will mean that the race will be at the same time as the Giro, but not many riders race Swiss after the Giro currently, and if they are then they probably shouldn't. Bringing the race forward some two or three weeks will mean that TDF riders can use it as preparation, and as a proper second race to target on their schedule. It would be far enough before the TDF for riders to be able to hit a mini peak there and the standard of the TDS will rise substantially, to the level that it should be at.

The negatives to such a proposal are that the race would encounter the same weather issues as the Giro, and can TV networks broadcast two major cycling stage races at the same time (well Paris-Nice and T-A crossover so I don't see why not)?

Clashes with TOC - Teams are unable to field teams for three multi-stage races that cross across each other.

 

[RedheadDane]

In 2016 they had three mountain stages in a row with average speed of 34 km/h. How is that not hard enough? Lopez final speed was 37 km/h overall after 9 stages.

Generally it's not like that. If Cancellara can win the race it can't be too mountainous generally. Other riders have also done well that are not regarded as great climbers.

Wasn't the 2009 edition ridiculously easy because the organisers wanted Cancellara to win?

 

[WheelofGear]

Re: Re:

The racing there is better than the most one-week races.

Maybe it has something to do with the big guys skipping the race. No dominant rider.

I actually think the racing at the dauphine has often been better than in the tds. Remember the last stages of the 2014 and 2017 dauphine? Or the col de la madeleine state in 2016 (where the best part of the stage was unfortunately not broadcasted) I don't remember stages that good in recent tour de suisse editions.

Pozzovivo's victory last year was one of the most unique stages I've ever watched.

They went slower downhill than uphill. Especially Woods. :lol:

I also enjoyed the strength of the Spilak-Taaramäe duo the following day. And when Spilak rode through the frozen tunnel with a chasing Ion Izagirre behind him it reminded me of a futuristic bike race.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Making space for the Tour of Switzerland between the GT's treating like it was the 4th Grand Tour is not even a serious consideration.
Sorry but no.

Meh...not my point though. Making more space between GTs makes sense, riders are free or not to race that one, which would be like the Players in golf or what the Masters used to be in tennis: not a major, but the closest thing to a major. Win-win, IMO. Two weeks, 15 stages, a race that exists on its own, instead of being a prep race, and that opens opportunities for aggressive design.

Now with regards to Suisse vs. Dauphine, true that the latter always attracts a better field of TdF contenders, it's a better race, the big guys test each other as much as they test themselves. Psycho warfare.

Pushing the Vuelta back also means colder (but still warm) weather. TOC? Who cares? The bigger thing would be scheduling the Worlds very, very late in the season: after the GDL?

 

[OlavEH]

I guess the TDS is easier that it could be partially because they don't want to scare off too many riders before TDF, but they could still create a better route. Rettenbachferner is a great climb, but Switzerland has so many great climbs that using an Austrian climb severaly years in a row, feels a bit "lazy".

I miss using the climbs around Andermatt/Meiringen (Grimsel, Susten, Furka, Nufenen) in a more decisive way, and the same applies to the many climbs around Sion (Anzere, Veysonnaz, Ovronnaz, Lein, etc). The latter part of the country is mostly used with an single-climb MTF in Crans or Verbier. Why not use a combo of 2-3 of the mentioned climbs, or have a MTF at Thyon 2000?

 

[movingtarget]

In 2016 they had three mountain stages in a row with average speed of 34 km/h. How is that not hard enough? Lopez final speed was 37 km/h overall after 9 stages.

Generally it's not like that. If Cancellara can win the race it can't be too mountainous generally. Other riders have also done well that are not regarded as great climbers.

Wasn't the 2009 edition ridiculously easy because the organisers wanted Cancellara to win?

Seems that way but maybe the weather limits too many of the really hard climbs ? TDS and the Dauphine used to be much harder but it seems most of the Tour riders now favour the Dauphine as they also get to preview some of the Tour stages.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

The racing there is better than the most one-week races.

Maybe it has something to do with the big guys skipping the race. No dominant rider.

I actually think the racing at the dauphine has often been better than in the tds. Remember the last stages of the 2014 and 2017 dauphine? Or the col de la madeleine state in 2016 (where the best part of the stage was unfortunately not broadcasted) I don't remember stages that good in recent tour de suisse editions.

...the Solden stage is always nice, particularly in '15 .

I would love a two-week TofS, reshuffle the calendar to keep that extra week like in '18 between Giro and Tour, push back La Vuelta (how far/much) and squeeze Switzerland between Tour and Vuelta, with at least two weeks (I would say 3) between Switzerland and Vuelta. That wuld make combinations interesting:

Giro-Vuelta or Giro-TofS or Giro-TofS-Vuelta
Tour-Vuelta or Tour-TofS. The Tour-TofS-Vuelta looks like too much .

Maybe like this: May week 1-2-3 Giro, July week 2-3-4 Tour, last week of August and first week of September TofS, October week 1-2-3 or 2-3-4 Vuelta.

I think that you keep it at 9 days, but race it in mid to late May. This will mean that the race will be at the same time as the Giro, but not many riders race Swiss after the Giro currently, and if they are then they probably shouldn't. Bringing the race forward some two or three weeks will mean that TDF riders can use it as preparation, and as a proper second race to target on their schedule. It would be far enough before the TDF for riders to be able to hit a mini peak there and the standard of the TDS will rise substantially, to the level that it should be at.

The negatives to such a proposal are that the race would encounter the same weather issues as the Giro, and can TV networks broadcast two major cycling stage races at the same time (well Paris-Nice and T-A crossover so I don't see why not)?

Clashes with TOC - Teams are unable to field teams for three multi-stage races that cross across each other.

Good point. Maybe teams shouldn't have to send a team to every race though? If you had representation from at least a third of the world tour teams in each stage race then the standard would still be quite high.

Of course if you freed up the rules in such a way, then teams may only send riders in such a scenario to the Giro and TDS. You would have to ensure that some teams still went to the TOC.

In regards to the TDS again, I've always felt that some/more riders could use the event as a main target in their season, and combine it with the Vuelta. If you're a guy who is maybe about the 11-20th best stage racer in the world, then you could win TDS and possibly podium the Vuelta. In between times you could be sent to the TDF, but not go all out, just ride as a super domestique in selected stages. Seems like the perfect schedule for guys like Thomas (if Froome is not banned), TJVG, Fulgsang, either of the OGE brothers, etc.