Winless teams

[El Pistolero]

Anyone remember who was the last major team to score a win last year (say pro-tour from last season, this season and Cervelo Test)?

I seem to remember BMC was being talked about then as well before Cadel won Flèche Wallonne. Or was that the last team to win their first last year?

OPL at Amstel?

 

[kurtinsc]

OPL at Amstel?

Well... Fleche Wallone is after the Amstel Gold race, right?

 

[roundabout]

Looks like its going to be BMC then

Evans will win tomorrow.

 

[boomcie]

Well... Fleche Wallone is after the Amstel Gold race, right?

Absolutely.

 

[jaylew]

Well... Fleche Wallone is after the Amstel Gold race, right?

Yeah, it was BMC by three days, but of course, they weren't Pro Tour last year.

BMC, Omega, and Euskaltel all had to wait until April.

 

[Ryaguas]

BMC staring down the barrel of last place, for sure, now.
The only question is when will they finally score a win.
I'm thinking April............
...............2012.

Nop it cant be... 2012 remember? the movie? the aztecs predictions etc?

Arrrrrrgh.... Leotard-sht took his 1st win...

 

[Anonymous]

Evans will win tomorrow.

win what????

 

[jaylew]

Friuli, I presume.

 

[jaylew]

To be honest I don't fervently defend my theory, as I said it is only one possible explanation. I also agree that almost no one (except me ) ever seems to follow the instructions. Even Luxembourgish media (basically LEOPARD TREK's propaganda outlet) doesn't do it.

Another possibility is to blame it on Trek, since they were the ones who sent out the memo.

Shouldn't we blame it on TREK?

Anyway, I'm sure they were just referring to media outlets. We're just a bunch of guys on an internet forum, after all. Dim says Sky instead of Team Sky, Garmin fans say Garmin instead of Team Garmin Cervelo, Saxo or Saxobank instead of SaxoBank Sunguard, Euskaltel / Euskaltel Euskadi, etc...I'm sure you say Andy instead of Andy Raymond Schleck all the time, right?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You seem to be misunderstanding the fact that the press hype wasn't intended in any way to impress the likes of Marc Madiot....it was targeted towards the majority of the British public, who admittedly know jack all about cycling. This is all part of skys credible aim to inspire 1 million more people to cycle.

Which would be fine if it were just in the British press. But genuine cycling news sources such as this site were just regurgitating Sky press releases as stories, the place turned into more of a Team Sky fansite than Dim's one which is specifically called that for a while last year. Thus it irritated fans and also competition, who found themselves being ignored or circumvented, and evidently people like Madiot disliked the way cycling fans were being told about all the "innovations" Sky were doing that were actually stuff that people like him had been doing for a while.

And really, what power does Dave Brailsford have to help Nicole Cooke? It's not his cash paying for the team you know?! I would guess he would have broached the subject of possibly funding a womens team to sky. But to be honest, there just wouldn't be any return. How often do you see a womens race on TV - or even mentioned in the media full stop? (and I'm not saying this is a good thing before you start!)

I won't get into the rights and wrongs of women's cycling's low profile (because it IS, and you won't hear me argue against that), but don't you think that
a) A big media juggernaut of a team like Sky running a women's team might have actually helped just as HTC (one of the few things I like about the team) and Cervélo have been willing to push the women as far forward as all the men bar perhaps the absolute top stars in their press material?
b) Actually showing a commitment to both halves of the population may have made their commitment to cycling in Britain more effective - as it is, it could be seen by some as a men-only move (on the road at least, they've been much more forthcoming on the track).
c) If they weren't going to do anything with women's cycling and that was the decision, that it was therefore a case of poor timing and poor form to then claim credit for Nicole Cooke's Olympic gold medal?

Meanwhile over in Spain, your friends from Euskaltel sign a first year espoir to their pro team, to make sure they have at least one half decent sprinter now that Koldo is injured. That's what I call a team with a plan.

To be fair to Euskaltel, they ARE a team with a plan. The plan is, much like Sky, promoting cycling in their home region. The Fundación Euskadi is part of the running of at least 2 women's teams, a number of amateur teams, a Continental and a Pro team. Unfortunately for them, their commitment to this is far more total than Sky's, which limits the available talent pool.

Gorka Izagirre is a more than serviceable sprinter too.

Indeed, it's difficult to criticize Euskaltel in cobbled races. They're off the back before the final even starts. However, if you win the race, you've ruined it, apparently.

Nah, it's not if you win the race, it's if you win it by strangling all the life out of it. Which most teams that exist primarily to lead out sprints do. That's why I call teams like HTC and Sky race-ruiners.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Won't do much in Friuli but I think BMC have a good chance in MOnte Paschi Eroica. Why does Leopard winning mean BMC will be last?

 

[El Pistolero]

Won't do much in Friuli but I think BMC have a good chance in MOnte Paschi Eroica. Why does Leopard winning mean BMC will be last?

Perhaps a Gilbert vs Cuddles duel at Strade Bianchi

Euskaltel and Saxo will likely score in Murcia that's why.

 

[jaylew]

I don't know about that, at least for Euskaltel. One stage is likely to end in a sprint, one is a flat TT, and the other is likely to be a small group sprint. Best bet for a win from one of those teams would be Contador for GC, imo.

 

[Ryaguas]

I can see Ballan winning in Monte Paschi... I have a feeling

 

[Mambo95]

Which would be fine if it were just in the British press. But genuine cycling news sources such as this site were just regurgitating Sky press releases as stories, the place turned into more of a Team Sky fansite than Dim's one which is specifically called that for a while last year. Thus it irritated fans and also competition, who found themselves being ignored or circumvented, and evidently people like Madiot disliked the way cycling fans were being told about all the "innovations" Sky were doing that were actually stuff that people like him had been doing for a while.

I'm sure you're aware that this is a British website. So the (mainly British) writers have better links and access to Sky than any other team. So you see more of them than FdJ, for example. I'm sure there's more emphasis on the French teams on the French equivalent.

Also, what Madiot and many fans fail to grasp is that cycling teams are in the advertising industry. The more mentions of their name in a good light*, the better. Upseting a few luddite cycling fans won't bother Sky.


*Or even a bad light. Festina's sales jumped up by 25% in late 1998.

 

[Andy99]

I'm sure you're aware that this is a British website. So the (mainly British) writers have better links and access to Sky than any other team. So you see more of them than FdJ, for example. I'm sure there's more emphasis on the French teams on the French equivalent.

Also, what Madiot and many fans fail to grasp is that cycling teams are in the advertising industry. The more mentions of their name in a good light*, the better. Upseting a few luddite cycling fans won't bother Sky.


*Or even a bad light. Festina's sales jumped up by 25% in late 1998.

Exactly. I rest my case (It's really not worth the hassle)

No matter what sky et al do, for those with irrational grievances, it will never be enough.

Race winner = Race ruiner. Excellent logic that.

 

[hatcher]

Nah, it's not if you win the race, it's if you win it by strangling all the life out of it. Which most teams that exist primarily to lead out sprints do. That's why I call teams like HTC and Sky race-ruiners.

Are you sticking with your contention that Sky ruined KBK by having bunch sprint as option #1?

 

[Havetts]

Sure as hell they made KBK boring together with Lotto.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Time to take Leopard-Trek off the list.

Nice to see Ulle's secret brother win.
Time to post the first losers.
Game over for:

Andy99, Buffalo Soldier, Chef_Vodnik, craig1985, El Pistolero, Ferminal, Granville57, Huffsa, jraama, L29205, Met de Versnelling, MrContador, NickBVK, nickel999, Ryaguas, sometriguy, sosososik, stefrees, Straßenrennen, theswordsman, togo95, will10

 

[Met de Versnelling]

Are you sticking with your contention that Sky ruined KBK by having bunch sprint as option #1?

KBK was worse than most of the Tour down Under.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Race winner = Race ruiner. Excellent logic that.

No, you're wilfully misconstruing my point.

Winning races is not ruining races.

What ruins races is having multiple teams who are keen for a sprint, and so make sure that the break never gets far enough up the road to even dare to dream. What ruins races is sending a ridiculously over-strong team to smallish races to pad your win count by taking half-or more-of the stages (eg HTC at the '09 Tour of Britain or '10 Tour of Turkey) because you know nobody can match you in a sprint. You don't have to WIN the race to ruin it - the 2010 Tour of Turkey was quite an interesting race, but only because ISD were so determined to make it interesting. HTC's plan was to have a prologue and seven bunch sprints.

If any race can be fully summarised in real time, with everything you need to see, in 90 seconds, then it has been ruined.

 

[hrotha]

The point about sending overkill squads to minor races is fair, but as for the other one, I'd rather blame the other teams letting them control the race so neatly.

 

[Anonymous]

And really, what power does Dave Brailsford have to help Nicole Cooke?

To be honest, if Sky ever do stump up the cash to sponsor a womens team, I hope Nicole Cooke has nothing to do with it, and Im not the only british fan who thinks so.

my opinion of her is not one of a team player. Or a humble person. Its going to be very interesting how her team do this year with so many "personalities"

 

[Andy99]

To be honest, if Sky ever do stump up the cash to sponsor a womens team, I hope Nicole Cooke has nothing to do with it, and Im not the only british fan who thinks so.

my opinion of her is not one of a team player. Or a humble person. Its going to be very interesting how her team do this year with so many "personalities"

Yep, I'd heard that too. Hence why even as world champ, she didn't have a team. There was also a lot of b i t c hing about the national RR last year, and the fact that cervelo had the audacity to work against her..

Must admit though, that whenever I have spoken to her, the opposite seemed true!

I guess anyones personality can be warped when the 'race face' is on...

 

[Andy99]

No, you're wilfully misconstruing my point.

Winning races is not ruining races.

What ruins races is having multiple teams who are keen for a sprint, and so make sure that the break never gets far enough up the road to even dare to dream. What ruins races is sending a ridiculously over-strong team to smallish races to pad your win count by taking half-or more-of the stages (eg HTC at the '09 Tour of Britain or '10 Tour of Turkey) because you know nobody can match you in a sprint. You don't have to WIN the race to ruin it - the 2010 Tour of Turkey was quite an interesting race, but only because ISD were so determined to make it interesting. HTC's plan was to have a prologue and seven bunch sprints.

If any race can be fully summarised in real time, with everything you need to see, in 90 seconds, then it has been ruined.

Maybe slightly

I sort of agree with you, but if a team is strong enough and the course is suited to that kind of tactic, surely you can't begrudge teams for playing to their strengths?

I agree it would be great if every race was a complete attackfest, though sadly in certain races that will never be the case.

Still, the spring classics are coming up soon - we will then see some proper racing!