World Championship 2024 - Mixed Team Relay: Zürich-Zürich (53.7km)

[RedheadDane]

but I would much rather see the mixed relay as a regular road race.

How would that work... with the swap... how?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

How would that work... with the swap... how?

Like in the CX/MTB relays, I´d imagine.

 

[RedheadDane]

Like in the CX/MTB relays, I´d imagine.

How do they happen there?

I'm just imagining a full men's peloton, and then Pogacar goes solo...

 

[tobydawq]

How would that work... with the swap... how?

Well, it would have to be something similar to what it is now (no physical contact between the riders, and they start from a separate place from the finish (perhaps just a parallel road)).

If you're thinking that the problem is that a whole peloton would have to line up at the same time for the relay, I don't really think that would be a problem. It could be solved like in biathlon or 4x400m running with riders lining up in the order it looks like the teams will cross the line. And it won't be that crowded if you only allow actual cycling countries in.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

How do they happen there?

I'm just imagining a full men's peloton, and then Pogacar goes solo...

I don't think 180 or more countries will participate.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Time splits for World Championships - Mixed Relay TTT 2024 Team Time Trial

www.procyclingstats.com

Isn't that accumulated times?

 

[Danskebjerge]

Official Website | Tissot Timing

Discover and follow all the results of the most important cycling competitions on the official Tissot Timing website.

www.tissottiming.com

How do you see the separated times for men and women there?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Isn't that accumulated times?

The ones I had selected, were the times for the men on the left and the women on the right.

 

[Danskebjerge]

The ones I had selected, were the times for the men on the left and the women on the right.

Thanks - I ordered the men's part, like this:

Time splits for World Championships - Mixed Relay TTT 2024 Time trial

www.procyclingstats.com

And then the women here:

Time splits for World Championships - Mixed Relay TTT 2024 Team Time Trial

www.procyclingstats.com

(Hope I didn't go wrong somewhere in the process ...)

 

[Valv.Piti]

Aint nobody care, just scratch it

Real racing starts tomorrow, finally, god damn man. Hard to get hype for a Worlds week when they serve up races that aint nobody give a *** about.

 

[LTNN87]

How do you see the separated times for men and women there?

I realised now that you cant. Sorry my mistake.

 

[Danskebjerge]

I realised now that you cant. Sorry my mistake.

No problem. I think we found the solution.

 

[Lequack]

 

[theyoungest]

Aint nobody care, just scratch it

Real racing starts tomorrow, finally, god damn man. Hard to get hype for a Worlds week when they serve up races that aint nobody give a *** about.

It was a good race today. Doesn't matter if you care, what matters is the racing.

 

[RedheadDane]

Aint nobody care, just scratch it

Real racing starts tomorrow, finally, god damn man. Hard to get hype for a Worlds week when they serve up races that aint nobody give a *** about.

You don't think people care about the ITTs?

 

[broppo]

I like seeing the event. I like how you need

And I think that the concept of relays, except in 4x100 where the changeover is a key skill, is fundamentally flawed. I see the value of the concept at club level, where the sport is largely about social links and bonding, but at elite level, it should be about who is the best, not who has the least weak weakest link.


Does anyone believe that, on the strength of their performance alone, the Australian women deserve those jerseys/medals/watches more than the German women?
Is anyone going to argue that the men and women had any meaningful integration of their efforts or mutual influence such that they meaningfully acted as one team?

As I said earlier, one may as well give bronze medals to Tarling and Henderson on the basis of their combined times earlier in the week. They were no less teammates than those competing in different circuits today.

What a bunch of crap. The race was about which country has the combined best team. Australia won fair and square.

I find it really enjoyable to watch the mixed races. Teams having a relatively weak men's or women's squad makes the race more unpredictable and fun imo. Germany was 41/1 odds to win today for example and they nearly won. It was a thrilling race and I hope in the future other countries will put their best riders in. Even though that wil never happen unfortunately.

 

[tobydawq]

I like seeing the event. I like how you need

What a bunch of crap. The race was about which country has the combined best team. Australia won fair and square.

I find it really enjoyable to watch the mixed races. Teams having a relatively weak men's or women's squad makes the race more unpredictable and fun imo. Germany was 41/1 odds to win today for example and they nearly won. It was a thrilling race and I hope in the future other countries will put their best riders in. Even though that wil never happen unfortunately.

Italy certainly put their best male riders in. Riders who have all gotten medals at international championships this fortnight.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I like seeing the event. I like how you need

What a bunch of crap. The race was about which country has the combined best team. Australia won fair and square.

I find it really enjoyable to watch the mixed races. Teams having a relatively weak men's or women's squad makes the race more unpredictable and fun imo. Germany was 41/1 odds to win today for example and they nearly won. It was a thrilling race and I hope in the future other countries will put their best riders in. Even though that wil never happen unfortunately.

By all means disagree with me, but do not tell me that my opinion (that athletic effort is better rewarded be giving medals to cyclists on the basis of the result that they are responsible for) is crap.

I know what the race *was* about, I was talking in terms of what I think it should have been about.
Do you believe that the Australian women deserve gold more than the German women? Is the achievement of holding the same passport as men who were better really just grounds for putting the second best performing women's team on the top step of the podium? I don't think it is.

The net result of this way of doing things might have ended up in an interesting denouement, but to my mind sporting intrigue should not be secondary to sporting integrity, and that is what I believe this form of event lacks.

 

[Wyndbrook]

At last managed to catch up, really enjoyed it ,cracking race.
Just needs UK, Belgium and Netherlands to shape up and get those entries in again.
Must say I disgree with the majority of the previous negative comments, many who seem to think bike racing begins and ends with the men's road race.

 

[broppo]

By all means disagree with me, but do not tell me that my opinion (that athletic effort is better rewarded be giving medals to cyclists on the basis of the result that they are responsible for) is crap.

I know what the race *was* about, I was talking in terms of what I think it should have been about.
Do you believe that the Australian women deserve gold more than the German women? Is the achievement of holding the same passport as men who were better really just grounds for putting the second best performing women's team on the top step of the podium? I don't think it is.

The net result of this way of doing things might have ended up in an interesting denouement, but to my mind sporting intrigue should not be secondary to sporting integrity, and that is what I believe this form of event lacks.

I don't really get your point. You are dividing between the women and men now. You might as well then stop with the whole team thing. Because then you might as well assess on an individual basis. Do you think Brown deserves the gold more than O'Connor or any of the other australian women because she was clearly the strongest link in the chain.

And Niedermaier was doing all the work for the German women. Maybe give Niedermaier the gold?

What is even the point of dividing teams based on their nationality. Luxemburg has less then 1 million citizens how are they supposed to compete against the US?. You could go on and on with your sporting integrity nonsense

 

[search]

I know what the race *was* about, I was talking in terms of what I think it should have been about.
Do you believe that the Australian women deserve gold more than the German women? Is the achievement of holding the same passport as men who were better really just grounds for putting the second best performing women's team on the top step of the podium? I don't think it is.

I see your point, but I don't think this is what it should be about, no. Not in this kind of event.

And it's also very common for all type of team event. In the last Winter Olympics Johannes Strolz won Gold in the Alpine Mixed despite losing every single race, for example. If one of us had participated instead of him, the result would have been exactly the same.

 

[tobydawq]

I see your point, but I don't think this is what it should be about, no. Not in this kind of event.

And it's also very common for all type of team event. In the last Winter Olympics Johannes Strolz won Gold in the Alpine Mixed despite losing every single race, for example. If one of us had participated instead of him, the result would have been exactly the same.

Also, things like Ryder Cup, Solheim Cup, Davis Cup, Billie Jean King Cup, Thomas Cup, Sudirman Cup etc. would all fall foul too because there is no 'real' cooperation between teammates.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I don't really get your point. You are dividing between the women and men now.

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing. I am expressing a preference for separate TTT results for men and women. Because those are the results that the riders have responsibility for.

You might as well then stop with the whole team thing.

No, I am not arguing against the concept of TTTs, but against relays.

And Niedermaier was doing all the work for the German women. Maybe give Niedermaier the gold?

What is even the point of dividing teams based on their nationality. Luxemburg has less then 1 million citizens how are they supposed to compete against the US?. You could go on and on with your sporting integrity nonsense

Please deal with the point I am making if you wish to discuss it, not with notions that nobody is talking about

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Also, things like Ryder Cup, Solheim Cup, Davis Cup, Billie Jean King Cup, Thomas Cup, Sudirman Cup etc. would all fall foul too.

Yes, they would. They are applying the social principles of club sports to the elite level in a way that I, at least, do not think fits elite level sport. At that level, sportspeople should be rewarded according to the results that they are responsible for. If something is not intrinsically a team sport, I see no merit in trying to turn it into one.

I don't expect everyone to agree: I haven't seen anyone provide any meaningful rebuttal to the principle.

 

[42x16ss]

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing. I am calling for separate TTT results for men and women. Because those are the results that the riders have responsibility for.


No, I am not arguing against the concept of TTTs, but against relays.




Please deal with the point I am making if you wish to discuss it, not with notions that nobody is talking about

But TTTs will have the same "flaw" you're complaining about now - someone on the winning team isn't as strong as the strongest on another team.

The only way to achieve what you say you want is to only have the ITT