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World Championship team qualifying system

Jun 16, 2009
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After reading this article on CN, I was annoyed to find out that two very strong nations could struggle to make the cut to have the full 9 riders at the worlds this year. Other countries such as Kazkhstan, Switzerland, Germany and Luxembourg are inside the quota so they can field nine riders. I personally don't think these countries could field overly strong all round squads at these worlds. Luckily Luxembourg can only field 2 riders at these worlds so one of those countries will be able to get inside the quota. Even so I don't think this is the best system to decide which nations get the full nine riders and which nations only get 6. It would be a shame if the dutch or the french miss out on having nine riders as those countries could field stronger all round squads than the countries I listed above (Kazakhstan, Switzerland, Germany and Luxembourg).

What are your thoughts on this system? If you dislike it, what do you suggest for the future?
 
Added to that I don't see why there is any need for the top ten seeded teams to be permitted more riders. It's the World Champs so surely each nation should have equal opportunity. If one nation's team is then stronger overall, they will still have an advantage.

I don't know enough about how the UCI points ranking works to think of a valid alternative, but to ensure the best individual riders ride, surely something like going through the individual rankings and allotting the first x many nations up to 7 spots each, with each rider nominated being required to have x number of UCI points. The bigger nations will have a full team of 7 riders and be evenly matched, while individuals "outperforming" their nation can still get an entry.
 
Feb 18, 2010
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The system is beyond insane. Do you know how many Britain will get to field after last year's 9? Three. Because they're that far down in the continental ranks, since all their riders are gathered in one PT team and they have no one left in the contintental ranks (CTT guys not inc.). Because they first look at the world rank for the first ten and then switch to the continental rank for the rest, all points gathered by PT riders in non-PT or HIS races don't count. Downing's win in Tour of Wallonie? Doesn't count. Rogers' win in Cali? Doesn't count. SKY actually hampers Britain's chance in the worlds, now there's irony for you.

The UCI is bonkers. But then again, we knew that already.

Also, Luxembourg and Kazakhstan will get to send six, as they have enough riders on the continental ranks.

For the future, I suggest Pat McQuaid be replaced by a chimpanzee. That should improve things, drastically.

PS, for those wondering, the ranks at the beginning of the week were

WORLD RANK - 9 RIDERS
1 SPAIN ESP 1,528 - 24 riders
2 ITALY ITA 856 - 37 riders
3 BELGIUM BEL 849 - 16 riders
4 AUSTRALIA AUS 723 - 10 riders
5 UNITED STATES USA 568 - 8 riders
6 RUSSIA RUS 423 - 9 riders
7 LUXEMBOURG LUX 398 - 2 riders (no prizes if you guess who)
8 SWITZERLAND SUI 355 - 9 riders
9 GERMANY GER 343 - 20 riders
10 KAZAKHSTAN KAZ 340 - 2 riders

On Kazakhstan's heels (GBR not that much, but this was written for a British site originally)

11 FRANCE FRA 311 - 35 riders
12 NETHERLANDS NED 303 - 8 riders
13 SLOVENIA SLO 294 - 3 riders
14 GREAT BRITAIN GBR 255 - 7 riders

The first six nations (get to send a squad of six) in the Europe Tour (who are not otherwise qualified), are:

2 (2) FRANCE FRA 2,166.4
4 (3) NETHERLANDS NED 1,592.2
7 (6) SLOVENIA SLO 1,261
8 (9) POLAND POL 1,150
10 (11) UKRAINE UKR 598
11 (10) DENMARK DEN 575

The nations seventh to sixteenth:

12 (12) BULGARIA BUL 559
13 (21) PORTUGAL POR 559
14 (15) CZECH REPUBLIC CZE 470
15 (13) ESTONIA EST 463
16 (14) IRELAND IRL 437.66
17 (19) LITHUANIA LTU 427
18 (24) CROATIA CRO 413
20 (22) NORWAY NOR 313
21 (16) GREAT BRITAIN GBR 310.5
22 (23) AUSTRIA AUT 307
 
May 26, 2009
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Conversely, why reward countries that don't have the necessary points to be in the top 10 with more spots, just because they're "strong nations". I don't see the issue.
 
We (the Dutch) had exactly the same problem last year, when we got to field only 6 riders, but I don't really feel it hurt our chances in any way. This year it's basically the same: we'll either have 9 riders who can't win, or 6.

It becomes ridiculous when a country like Norway is in the 9 rider zone, but (like last year) can't make up the numbers and only sends 5 or so.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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theyoungest said:
We (the Dutch) had exactly the same problem last year, when we got to field only 6 riders, but I don't really feel it hurt our chances in any way. This year it's basically the same: we'll either have 9 riders who can't win, or 6.

It becomes ridiculous when a country like Norway is in the 9 rider zone, but (like last year) can't make up the numbers and only sends 5 or so.

well you guys do have bauke mollema so you do have a good chance with that guy.;)

in all seriousness, gesink would of been a reasonable chance last year or would of been up and around there.
 
Feb 18, 2010
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groverjones said:
Conversely, why reward countries that don't have the necessary points to be in the top 10 with more spots, just because they're "strong nations". I don't see the issue.

Personally, my issue isn't that certain nations that should be there don't make it, but that the system in itself is flawed beyond believe.

Only points scored in ProTour of Historical races count for the world rank. For the continental rank, only points scored by riders in (pro)conti teams count. So Russell Downing wins the Tour of Wallonie (to use a recent example), but his points don't count towards anything (as Wallonie is .HC and Downing is at a PT team). But the guys who finish below him (Marcato, Vacansoleil; Mangel, Saur; Simon, Saur) do score points, as they ride for continental teams. How is that in any way sane?

And that's not even starting with what races are PT and what aren't (Tour Down Under? Seriously?), and the fact that only a handful of races matter to the UCI.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
well you guys do have bauke mollema so you do have a good chance with that guy.;)

in all seriousness, gesink would of been a reasonable chance last year or would of been up and around there.
You're joking, but you're half right: Bauke Mollema is our last chance to send 9 riders to the Worlds. He'll ride the Tour of Poland next week, and the course should really suit him. Do it for your country, Bauke!
 
The ridicolous UCI ranking rewards individual strength more than collective strength (hence, Luxemburg being up there, and France/Netherlands failing)

Compare that ranking with the CQ ranking
1. (1) [Esp] Spain Europe Riders 12652
2. (2) [Ita] Italy Europe Riders 10392
3. (5) [Bel] Belgium Europe Riders 7743
4. (4) [Aus] Australia Oceania Riders 7294
5. (3) [Ger] Germany Europe Riders 5897
6. (6) [Fra] France Europe Riders 5833
7. (9) [Usa] United States America Riders 5785
8. (7) [Ned] Netherlands Europe Riders 5355
9. (10) [Gbr] Great Britain Europe Riders 4101

10. (8) [Rus] Russia Europe Riders 4011
11. (14) [Slo] Slovenia Europe Riders 3827
12. (12) [Sui] Switzerland Europe Riders 3813
13. (11) [Den] Denmark Europe Riders 3423
14. (19) [Kaz] Kazakhstan Asia Riders 3084
15. (13) [Nor] Norway Europe Riders 2914
16. (18) [Por] Portugal Europe Riders 2432
17. (15) [Lux] Luxembourg Europe Riders 2315
18. (21) [Pol] Poland Europe Riders 2303
19. (17) [Col] Colombia America Riders 2284
20. (22) [Ukr] Ukraine Europe Riders 1848
 
Dekker_Tifosi said:
The ridicolous UCI ranking rewards individual strength more than collective strength (hence, Luxemburg being up there, and France/Netherlands failing)

There has to be some element of individual ranking taken into account, otherwise many cyclists could be struck down by George Best Syndrome. Riders like the Schlecks, Vino etc shouldn't be punished because there aren't many top cyclists from their nations, but at the same time those nations should not be allowed to enter utter donkeys on the back of one or two riders' quality.
 
Feb 18, 2010
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The Sheep said:
Also the Vuelta and the fall classics will never count towards the ranking?

Everything after 15 August doesn't matter, indeed. Including the world championships themselves, ironically.

- that is, they count towards the rankings themselves, but as they fall behind the deadline they don't count towards WC quotas.
 
Roland Rat said:
There has to be some element of individual ranking taken into account, otherwise many cyclists could be struck down by George Best Syndrome. Riders like the Schlecks, Vino etc shouldn't be punished because there aren't many top cyclists from their nations, but at the same time those nations should not be allowed to enter utter donkeys on the back of one or two riders' quality.
No they would not be punished, because even in the old ranking system (the CQ ranking I just showed you), they would have the right to go to the world championships on the basis of their individual ranking.
They just wouldn't get 6 amateurs as helpers. :rolleyes:
 
tgsgirl said:
Everything after 15 August doesn't matter, indeed. Including the world championships themselves, ironically.

- that is, they count towards the rankings themselves, but as they fall behind the deadline they don't count towards WC quotas.
Which is another ridicolous thing, because if you look at the END 2010 rankings, the Netherlans was in the top 10

But because they weren't on 15th august, they were screwed. Another one of the shortcomings of the UCI

Indeed, a chimpanzee would be a good replacement for Pat McQuack
 
May 26, 2009
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tgsgirl said:
Everything after 15 August doesn't matter, indeed. Including the world championships themselves, ironically.

- that is, they count towards the rankings themselves, but as they fall behind the deadline they don't count towards WC quotas.

So, and this is almost certainly going over old ground, why don't they determine the WC rankings based on the previous 12 months, rather than the single season up until August 15?
 
Jan 18, 2010
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tgsgirl said:
The system is beyond insane. Do you know how many Britain will get to field after last year's 9? Three. Because they're that far down in the continental ranks, since all their riders are gathered in one PT team and they have no one left in the contintental ranks (CTT guys not inc.). Because they first look at the world rank for the first ten and then switch to the continental rank for the rest, all points gathered by PT riders in non-PT or HIS races don't count. Downing's win in Tour of Wallonie? Doesn't count. Rogers' win in Cali? Doesn't count. SKY actually hampers Britain's chance in the worlds, now there's irony for you.

The UCI is bonkers. But then again, we knew that already.

For the future, I suggest Pat McQuaid be replaced by a chimpanzee. That should improve things, drastically.

Great post, cheers for that.

Its a completly dumb system to qualify riders for the Worlds. Suffice to say the people that devised this system need their heads examining.
 
Feb 18, 2010
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groverjones said:
So, and this is almost certainly going over old ground, why don't they determine the WC rankings based on the previous 12 months, rather than the single season up until August 15?

Because they're idiots.
But yes, that would be one of many improvements that should be made.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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The Sheep said:
Also the Vuelta and the fall classics will never count towards the ranking?
Well the fall classics are after the worlds so it maybe a bit unfair to have a go at them for that.
joy118118 said:
cq and uci ranking all show ACF Germany is able to take 9 men

I know they are able to take nine men but who has really done much for them this season? UCI Rankings

25 GREIPEL André GER19820716 TEAM HTC - COLUMBIA (THR) 137
55 MARTIN Tony GER19850423 TEAM HTC - COLUMBIA (THR) 69
56 VOIGT Jens GER19710917 TEAM SAXO BANK (SAX) 62
69 KLÖDEN Andreas GER19750622 TEAM RADIOSHACK (RSH) 46
87 HONDO Danilo GER19740104 LAMPRE-FARNESE VINI (LAM) 29
104 GERDEMANN Linus GER19820916 TEAM MILRAM (MRM) 16
115 CIOLEK Gerald GER19860919 TEAM MILRAM (MRM) 13
118 BURGHARDT Marcus GER19830630 BMC RACING TEAM (BMC) 12
120 FöRSTER Robert GER19780127 TEAM MILRAM (MRM) 11

Greipel won a lot in January to March but was dissapointing tbh in the giro. Martin was good in the tds but really they have not done much.

I understand that according to the UCI rankings the dutch have not done well but at least they have a rider that is actually up in the top 10 (Gesink 9th). Greipel or Hondo could do well in Melbourne but I would like to see some bright orange in the peleton at the Melbourne Worlds.

I think USA should only be allowed to put in 6 as they way the performed last year in the worlds and with the riders they have, they could of acheived a better result. It would be cool to have some nations put in two teams to the worlds. Would be interesting.
 
I don't fully understand it, but in the qualifying regulations it says:

1. The 10 first countries in UCI WorldTour classification by nation on 15 August 2013:

each country may enter 14 riders, with 9 to start. However, a nation with fewer than 9 riders classified in the individual UCI WorldTour ranking on 15 August 2013 shall start the number of riders that are classified. A nation with fewer than 6 riders classified in the UCI WorldTour ranking will, nonetheless, start 6 riders (* and **)

in UCI world tour ranking by nation GB is currently 4th, but only 7 riders scored points so far, but having a look at the asterisk...

*
A national federation ranked in the top ten on the UCI WorldTour ranking that does not achieve its athlete quota maximum because of the number of riders ranked on the individual UCI WorldTour ranking can complete its athlete quota thanks to the places it can receive on its respective continental circuit – the UCI Africa Tour, UCI America Tour, UCI Asia Tour, UCI Europe Tour and the UCI Oceania Tour - but must not, however, exceed the athlete quota of 14 riders with 9 to start obtained in the UCI WorldTour.

...and there are following requrements to get places from the continental ranking:

5. The first 14 nations of the classification by nation of the UCI Europe Tour on 15 August 2013 excluding the nations qualifying via the UCI WorldTour classification:

the first 6 nations qualifying can enter 9 riders, with 6 to start (rank 1); the nations ranked 7th to 14th can enter 5 riders, with 3 to start (rank 2)

currently GB is 18th in the continental ranking by nations, which wouldn't qualify them to start. But as far as I can see, if (for example) Thwaites continues to score points and GB moves up to 14th in europe tour ranking at least, his performance would gain them more spots, yes
 
search said:
I don't fully understand it, but in the qualifying regulations it says:



in UCI world tour ranking by nation GB is currently 4th, but only 7 riders scored points so far, but having a look at the asterisk...



...and there are following requrements to get places from the continental ranking:



currently GB is 18th in the continental ranking by nations, which wouldn't qualify them to start. But as far as I can see, if (for example) Thwaites continues to score points and GB moves up to 14th in europe tour ranking at least, his performance would gain them more spots, yes

I know last year GB had two riders who gained Britain places at the WC RR through their pro-conti performances though, I assume JTL and probably Russel Downing, but to gain a place what does a rider have to do is a 5th place in a 1.1 race sufficient, or is it cumilative over the season.