World Championships: Valverde In? Valverde out

[Runitout]

I give you 26 Spanish cyclists who have been found to be doping since 2004 and you give me Alan Davis. The doping problem in cycling is centred in Spain and that country is not rpepared to do anything about it.

Ha ha - no, I don't doubt that Spain has been at the forefront of sports doping since before the Barcelona Olympics. A list of sports doctors working there says all you need to know. I was merely using an example ACF94 could understand to show that the Spanish fed is not alone in looking the other way. I could mention USA in the T&F, or botero, or thousands of other examples - but my point was limited to that discrete issue.

 

[biker jk]

Ha ha - no, I don't doubt that Spain has been at the forefront of sports doping since before the Barcelona Olympics. A list of sports doctors working there says all you need to know. I was merely using an example ACF94 could understand to show that the Spanish fed is not alone in looking the other way. I could mention USA in the T&F, or botero, or thousands of other examples - but my point was limited to that discrete issue.

You do realise that it was the Spanish courts which cleared Alan Davis along with Alberto Contador in July 2006?

 

[craig1985]

In which world are you living?

AC and Piti are on the Fuentes-List. Epo-Lance was tested positive 7 times + sworn against him under oath. Those 3 are not only convicted dopers, but they still deny and lie. Thats the lowest level of human nature.

Sure Klöden, Leipheimer and all the others did dope, but they have not been convicted. You cant judge someone because you think he did something wrong. To judge one you have to have witness.

We cant stop talking about the past as long the basterds are still around. Plain and simple!!

What is your definition of a 3rd world country? Covering crimes up and being totally corrupt is my definition. And spain certainly qualifies for that.

Since when has Armstrong and Contador been banned for doping? I don't see how somebody can be a convicted doper if they have never been banned for doping. Tyler Hamilton for example, is a convicted doper.

 

[auscyclefan94]

You do realise that it was the Spanish courts which cleared Alan Davis along with Alberto Contador in July 2006?

Armstrong has cleared by the courts multiple times but does that make him clean?

 

[Runitout]

You do realise that it was the Spanish courts which cleared Alan Davis along with Alberto Contador in July 2006?

They did no such thing. They sent him a letter saying that they would not charge him with anything. Very different to being cleared of doping.

 

[biker jk]

Armstrong has cleared by the courts multiple times but does that make him clean?

I never said that Davis wasn't doping. Just made the point that it was the Spanish courts that cleared him after OP. A poster was trying to claim that all cycling Federations are as corrupt as Spain's. I don't agree.

 

[blackcat]

Ok, I will apologise as it was un called for but you must understand that calling some a "wog" is not meant in any circumstance as a racist taunt but as a general comment. Everyone use to call soccer wog ball many years a go because the italians and greeks used that word. Not meant to be derogortry.





That makes you look like a complete hipocrit calling me that because your now the racist.

it was meta, channeling your risible screed, just unnecessary to put <country (racist epithet)>

I was mocking you.

 

[rata de sentina]

Ok, I will apologise as it was un called for but you must understand that calling some a "wog" is not meant in any circumstance as a racist taunt but as a general comment. Everyone use to call soccer wog ball many years a go because the italians and greeks used that word. Not meant to be derogatory (sic).

Your point is fair enough and in Oddstralia it may not have any negative implications and used by those groups to describe themselves. But this is the internet and as pointed out earlier such usage is not universal and can cause offence. As a general rule it's best to play it safe as one man's affectionate nickname is anothers mortal insult.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Since when has Armstrong and Contador been banned for doping? I don't see how somebody can be a convicted doper if they have never been banned for doping. Tyler Hamilton for example, is a convicted doper.

I never said they were banned. That is what makes me mad (as i said before): Convicted and not penalized !! What does it mean for young pipo? You can cheat and get away with it. I really feel to vomit on the corrupt spain and UCI.

I give you another example to make my point clear: Idi Amin was a convicted mass murderer (the slaughter of Uganda), yet he never got judged/penalized.

May my english is not as good as what i try to explain. Its not my mother language.

P.S.: You forgot to name Valv-Piti. This low lifer is also a convicted doper and never was banned.

 

[biker jk]

Your point is fair enough and in Oddstralia it may not have any negative implications and used by those groups to describe themselves. But this is the internet and as pointed out earlier such usage is not universal and can cause offence. As a general rule it's best to play it safe as one man's affectionate nickname is anothers mortal insult.

It's "Australia" mate. Why be derogatory to an entire nation?

 

[Runitout]

I agree with you totally but i'm saying that spanish riders have a worse record than aussies in this case. I'm just annoyed that this case OP was brushed over so easily and not looked into enough to get rid of the cheats. They got out of it too easily.

That's all true. The cyclists were protected, and the football players and tennis stars even more so.

Why were his Canary Island offices never raided?

And who keeps training on the Canaries?

Noticias (from memory) on dpf had a few good posts following the trail of doping docs across sports; the crossover between cycling team docs and football teams and athletics was pretty alarming. You can almost correlate exceptional performances with the doctors they had that year.

 

[Runitout]

I never said that Davis wasn't doping. Just made the point that it was the Spanish courts that cleared him after OP. A poster was trying to claim that all cycling Federations are as corrupt as Spain's. I don't agree.

THe Spanish courts never cleared him - they merely said they wouldn't charge him. Different thing.

And my point was not that 'all cycling Federations are as corrupt as Spain'. My point is that it is a rare cycling federation that will target its own riders. Spain is not different in that regard to most of the rest of the world.

The difference in Spain is not the cycling federation, but the investigating judge and the Minister for Sport. Both have squashed any attempt to push further with OP. We can speculate the various reasons for that, but it is not directly related to either the stance of the cycling federation or the massive contribution of people like Dr Padilla to Spanish sport.

 

[cyclingmad]

Spain

I give you 26 Spanish cyclists who have been found to be doping since 2004 and you give me Alan Davis. The doping problem in cycling is centred in Spain and that country is not rpepared to do anything about it.

There has always been doping in cycling even back in days when Anquetil admitted doping was part of cycling. There is an EPO and blood doping problem in cycling in the last 20 years and the reason it is a problem is that the advantage gained is massive the danger and cost high and the knowledge of the doctor running the program makes a significant difference. The problem doesn't centre around Spain it actually started and nearly all of it can be linked back to research and doctors in Italy.
Spainish cycling isn't doing enough to prevent doping but neither are a number of other countries.
Puerto was recent and happened in Spain and that is a recent event so it has a disproportional effect on peoples opinions
Along with Italy and France it has a high proportion of the cycling population so it will have a larger number of people caught. The Spanish cycling authorities are not being effective but people shouldn't generalise the Spanish or their riders as being corrupt.
Other cycling bodies like in France, Germany and Britain for example are doing a better job of discouraging doping

 

[cyclingmad]

comments

Some riders were convicted of Operacion puerto Basso (Ita), Ullrich (Ger), Botero (Col) and Jachse (ger), Scarponi (Ita) and other were cleared (at the time) Contador (Spa), Beloki (Spa), Nozal (Spa), Paulinho (Por), Osa (Spa). I could go on tho Spain seems to have a less harsh approach to doping.

Spain doesn't have a harsh enough approach in dealing with doping.

I did enjoy discussing other threads with you especially with your obvious Cadel Evans bias. You have now made some racist comments which together with the content of a lot of your posts suggest a lot of your posts are more motivated by prejudice than being about cycling or riders.

You have now apologized which suggests you may not have intended to be offensive. You are probably quite naive and may have never left Australia but your posts about Valverde and other Spanish riders give the impression you are trying to promote some kind of anti Spanish view. I have no interest in this and suggest you might want to think what influence has disturbed you or made you think like this

 

[Anonymous]

Within the peloton and in his homecountry he is one of the most respected athletes.
If he gets an UCI-ban imo it should be the standard 2 years, starting at the end of this season and he should not be stripped of any wins.
Since he is allowed to ride at the worlds, he would be an idiot not to start. If he wins he's a very deserved champ and it will add another unbelievable story to the great history of cycling.

no it should start from the day the UCI originally wanted to ban him and the case was appealed by valverde.. had valverde not appealed than a ban would be in place by now.. he has delayed the process by appealing therefore allowing him to win the vuelta (knowing the field would be weaker) but skirting around legal fringes and rulings...

very similar situation in football.. chelsea banned from transfers in january and next summer.. decided to appeal.. the CAS in their wisdom said chelsea had 21 days to appeal.. if they got he appeal in quick CAS would have a hearing in november, if chelsea took their time then the hearing wouldnt be until february and therefore chelsea would still be able to sign players in january.. guess what chelsea chose to do...

all valverde has done is delay what i believe is the inevitable, and by bending the law and using it to his advantage has claimed a veulta and potentially the world title..

as if the original offence wasnt bad enough

 

[Anonymous]

And my point was not that 'all cycling Federations are as corrupt as Spain'. My point is that it is a rare cycling federation that will target its own riders. Spain is not different in that regard to most of the rest of the world..

erm.. do you see dave millars name on the start list for the gb team in the worlds..? i beleive that is still a hangover from his ban for epo.. he is still being made to pay the price by his own federation

 

[auscyclefan94]

Spain doesn't have a harsh enough approach in dealing with doping.

I did enjoy discussing other threads with you especially with your obvious Cadel Evans bias. You have now made some racist comments which together with the content of a lot of your posts suggest a lot of your posts are more motivated by prejudice than being about cycling or riders.

You have now apologized which suggests you may not have intended to be offensive. You are probably quite naive and may have never left Australia but your posts about Valverde and other Spanish riders give the impression you are trying to promote some kind of anti Spanish view. I have no interest in this and suggest you might want to think what influence has disturbed you or made you think like this

Not at all. i see that their are doprs from other countries to. I'm just a little against the spanish courts handling of doping incidents.

 

[Anonymous]

I did enjoy discussing other threads with you especially with your obvious Cadel Evans bias. You have now made some racist comments which together with the content of a lot of your posts suggest a lot of your posts are more motivated by prejudice than being about cycling or riders.

without wishing to drag it on, i will make a small point.. it is a word that while i would never used, in some parts of britain, and in some generations of people in britain it is not a word that is considered offensive.. it was still being used in the 70's and 80's on british television, alf garnett etc,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBO7FYe9BBo
personally while i would never use the word, wether or not its offensive to me depends on the context in which its used.. however, i am completely confused as to why its used to describe italians..

whatever happened to the lovely little cuddly toys you used to get on the robinsons jars.. talk about political correctness gone mad...

anywya.. thats all i have to say on the matter..

back to dissing the spanish..

 

[auscyclefan94]

without wishing to drag it on, i will make a small point.. it is a word that while i would never used, in some parts of britain, and in some generations of people in britain it is not a word that is considered offensive.. it was still being used in the 70's and 80's on british television, alf garnett etc,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBO7FYe9BBo
personally while i would never use the word, wether or not its offensive to me depends on the context in which its used.. however, i am completely confused as to why its used to describe italians..

whatever happened to the lovely little cuddly toys you used to get on the robinsons jars.. talk about political correctness gone mad...

anywya.. thats all i have to say on the matter..

back to dissing the spanish..

+234567898765432
That's how i meant it. Brits have common sense and humour.Never meant it to be offensive to anyone

 

[biker jk]

Runitout tells us it's not the Spanish cycling federation that is the stumbling block but the Spanish courts and the Minister for Sport. Cyclingmad blames the Spanish cycling federation but says Spain or its cyclists aren't corrupt. You both sound like apologists and deny the reality that Span is the centre of doping in cycling and is not prepared to fix the problem. I repeat that 26 Spanish cyclists have been caught doping since 2004.

 

[Runitout]

Runitout tells us it's not the Spanish cycling federation that is the stumbling block but the Spanish courts and the Minister for Sport. Cyclingmad blames the Spanish cycling federation but says Spain or its cyclists aren't corrupt. You both sound like apologists and deny the reality that Span is the centre of doping in cycling and is not prepared to fix the problem. I repeat that 26 Spanish cyclists have been caught doping since 2004.

Read my posts again.

I'm not apologizing for anyone- I'm simply saying you can't conflate the Cycling Federation with the courts and the athletes and the doping doctors. You singled out the cycling fed for abuse and you justified it by saying that lots of Spanish cyclists doped. There is a cognitive dissonance there.

I have no dog in this fight - I'm merely saying that the Spanish Fed is behaving like most other sports federations do in similar circumstances. That doesn't deny the fact that Spain is at the forefront of medical preparation and has been for nearly twenty years. If you read my posts,you will see I have acknowledged that.

I didn't think it was this hard to understand.

 

[rata de sentina]

It's "Australia" mate. Why be derogatory to an entire nation?

Compatriots, sometimes they're a bloody millstone in the eternal quest to raise the national norm.

 

[biker jk]

Compatriots, sometimes they're a bloody millstone in the eternal quest to raise the national norm.

I'll assume your comment isn't directed at me. Let me know if my assumption is wrong.

 

[craig1985]

the IGF-1 at Operation Puerto was from Gropep in Adelaide my info is.

I think there are some big whigs who open the doors to Gropep. Does anyone in Adelaide have any influence?

So, not sure if that was Davis' greenbacks or whatever equivalent Aus is.

Sorry, but that is something Yoda would say.

I never said they were banned. That is what makes me mad (as i said before): Convicted and not penalized !! What does it mean for young pipo? You can cheat and get away with it. I really feel to vomit on the corrupt spain and UCI.

I give you another example to make my point clear: Idi Amin was a convicted mass murderer (the slaughter of Uganda), yet he never got judged/penalized.

May my english is not as good as what i try to explain. Its not my mother language.

P.S.: You forgot to name Valv-Piti. This low lifer is also a convicted doper and never was banned.

Ah fair enough. Convicted (in English) generally means that you have been charged and found gulity in a court of law, so in that sense, Valverde is a convicted doper in the eyes of the Italians. Armstrong and Contador are probably 'blatant' dopers, it's obvious they are doing it, but have never been charged for it.

 

[skidmark]

erm.. do you see dave millars name on the start list for the gb team in the worlds..? i beleive that is still a hangover from his ban for epo.. he is still being made to pay the price by his own federation

Huh? Being made to pay what price? In the Worlds that I watched, Millar rode for GB, had mechanical problems, dropped out. Your post seems to be implying that he was blacklisted and didn't ride, but his name most certainly was on the start list.