World Politics

[ChrisE]

This argument is often used to rationalise one's actions. But the opposite is true, poor people generally have more kids. Capitalism is selecting for poverty (and mediocrity?).

Now this is an interesting discussion.

Why do stupid people have so many kids? Why do people eating dirt in Africa continue to have kids?

I waited until I was financially and mentally stable to have a child. Why people act the opposite is a question that always intrigued me.

 

[ihavenolimbs]

I'm a PC warrior!

I waited until I was financially and mentally stable to have a child. Why people act the opposite is a question that always intrigued me.

A few years ago, I had a drinking buddy -- bone-idle and with an IQ of about 75 -- and he already had four kids by 21, to three different mothers too.

So called rational people are screwed, we think about when it is the best time to breed, and how many to have. But with irrational people, every new baby is a shock. They're like, "how'd that happen?" each and every time.

Capitalism is selecting for fat, lazy retards.

 

[rhubroma]

Now this is an interesting discussion.

Why do stupid people have so many kids? Why do people eating dirt in Africa continue to have kids?

I waited until I was financially and mentally stable to have a child. Why people act the opposite is a question that always intrigued me.

It's a virility thing in Africa. One has to remember that only in the so called advanced world, where more have access to higher education and material wealth, are the people having fewer kids and much later in life then say a couple of generations ago. Given the economic advantage over the Third World, one would expect just the opposite to hold true.

Whereas among the so called primitive and underdeveloped societies, procreation has maintianed an eons old tradition as a highly regarded social status, which does not, and I must say unfortumately today, rationally consider the consequences of having many kids.

On my recent trip to Kenya while in a tent camp in the Savana, one of the Africans told myself and my girlfriend that he actually thought it was impossible for the African male not to cum inside his partner and that she wouldn't gain full pleasure from sex otherwise. We got on the topic, by the way, when I had remarked to him at my perplexion of having seen so many babies in the villages where food and water were decidedly scarce and why weren't anti-conception methods used more frequently.

Though this has nothing to do with stupidity, as it does with the tribal culture which still conditions their social behavior. The issue is thus cultural and has nothing to do with intelligence.

The arrival of Western colonialism forced such a tribal culture into modernity, without the native populations, however, in any way being prepared to handle it. As if they went from pre-history to the industriallized world in a flash, without having taken the necessary historical steps of a Classical Antiquity, Middle Ages, Renaissance, Enlightenment eras to get their. The dramatic consequenses of such a chronological mismatch are obvious for anybody who has seen it. Exploitation of the natural resources and politically sustaining whatever form of dictatorial brutality to get at them by the multi-nationals of the West has merely exacerbated an already intollerable state.

It is almost as if, before the arrival of the Westerner and therefore his material things and schemes, at least natural selection was at the basis of their struggles, now it is manmade and has led to an entire continent being a casualty of modernity.

 

[ChrisE]

A few years ago, I had a drinking buddy -- bone-idle and with an IQ of about 75 -- and he already had four kids by 21, to three different mothers too.

So called rational people are screwed, we think about when it is the best time to breed, and how many to have. But with irrational people, every new baby is a shock. They're like, "how'd that happen?" each and every time.

Capitalism is selecting for fat, lazy retards.

I'm not really following your capitalism quip. People are what they are, it's just some economic systems maybe expose them more than others.

The gift that keeps on giving in your scenario above is the idiot is bringing other idiots into the world. How smart do you think those kids are going to be? When people who are poor and who can hardly survive in third world countries keep breeding it is just mind boggling to me. That contributes to the downward spiral in those countries.

Of course, I have many wild ideas in my head to stop this madness but none of them would even remotely fly politically.

 

[ChrisE]

It's a virility thing in Africa. One has to remember that only in the so called advanced world, where more have access to higher education and material wealth, are the people having fewer kids and much later in life then say a couple of generations ago. Given the economic advantage over the Third World, one would expect just the opposite to hold true.

Whereas among the so called primitive and underdeveloped societies, procreation has maintianed an eons old tradition as a highly regarded social status, which does not, and I must say unfortumately today, rationally consider the consequences of having many kids.

On my recent trip to Kenya while in a tent camp in the Savana, one of the Africans told myself and my girlfriend that he actually thought it was impossible for the African male not to cum inside his partner and that she wouldn't gain full pleasure from sex otherwise. We got on the topic, by the way, when I had remarked to him at my perplexion of having seen so many babies in the villages where food and water were decidedly scarce and why weren't anti-conception methods used more frequently.

Though this has nothing to do with stupidity, as it does with the tribal culture which still conditions their social behavior.

The arrival of Western colonialism forced such a tribal culture into modernity, without the native populations, however, in any way being prepared to handle it. As if they went from pre-history to the industriallized world in a flash, without having taken the necessary historical steps of a Classical Antiquity, Middle Ages, Renaissance, Enlightenment eras to get their. The dramatic consequenses of such a chronological mismatch are obvious for anybody who has seen it. Exploitation of the natural resources and politically sustaining whatever form of dictatorial brutality to get at them by the multi-nationals of the West has merely exaserbated an already intollerable state.

It is almost as if, before the arrival of the Westerner and therefore his material things and schemes, at least natural selection was at the basis of their struggles, now it is manmade and has led to an entire continent to a casualty of modernity.

I beg to differ on your definition of stupidity. If a culture, or whatever else, promotes beliefs about cumming in a woman = sexual pleasure then that is my definition of stupid.

That can't be true because that flies in the face of all of the porn I watch, no pun intended. Maybe instead of food we should drop some dvd players and some Jenna Jameson movies on these people. Mix in some of those "Where the Boys Aren't" discs and that would even help the problem more. A country full of lesbians and women immitating Cameron Diaz's hair gel act would definitely lower the birth rate.

Do you have an opinion why "Western Society" is the one always imposing it's will upon the weak in the world? Why is the western society the one thriving?

I'm not sure I buy your whole premise.....it's not like these people were in good shape prior to this happening. And even though corruption in many of these countries keeps alot of the money concentrated with a few there still has to be more positive benefits to the population as a whole vs if there was no money at all. I'm not a trickle down promotor but that alone would do more than nothing.

Me thinks your blame is misplaced. Whether something exacerbates a situation that was brought on by stupidity in the first place is irrelevant.

 

[rhubroma]

I beg to differ on your definition of stupidity. If a culture, or whatever else, promotes beliefs about cumming in a woman = sexual pleasure then that is my definition of stupid.

That can't be true because that flies in the face of all of the porn I watch, no pun intended. Maybe instead of food we should drop some dvd players and some Jenna Jameson movies on these people. Mix in some of those "Where the Boys Aren't" discs and that would even help the problem more. A country full of lesbians and women immitating Cameron Diaz's hair gel act would definitely lower the birth rate.

Do you have an opinion why "Western Society" is the one always imposing it's will upon the weak in the world? Why is the western society the one thriving?

I'm not sure I buy your whole premise.....it's not like these people were in good shape prior to this happening. And even though corruption in many of these countries keeps alot of the money concentrated with a few there still has to be more positive benefits to the population as a whole vs if there was no money at all. I'm not a trickle down promotor but that alone would do more than nothing.

Me thinks your blame is misplaced. Whether something exacerbates a situation that was brought on by stupidity in the first place is irrelevant.

You remind me of an economist I once knew, who thought that the solution to the (rich) world's problems was to be found in there being about 3 billion to many of us. It isn't difficult to imagine the solution.

In regards to your concept of "being in good shape" and progress (through the interjection of money I suppose), it is one entirely based upon the rather elementary sense of culture you obviously possess. One cannot desire something which one doesn't know.

I'd argue that the arrival of Western Civilization in Africa upset with greater force the delicate equilibrium established by the tribal cultures between man and his environment, than it did in upgrading the quality of life for those tribes. In fact, quite the opposite has been true. The inception of an economy, political structures and materialism based upon our world's model, has created much more havoc than it has done in solving "problems," which, in the way you percieve them, in reality didn't exist before colonialism. And neither did apartheid either.

The brutality of invasive colonialism has, to the contrary, generated an as yet unseen misery: whereas the appetites of our industrialists has led to for the first time in those societies an equally brutal competition for who controlls the management of those resources and, consequently, gets to profit the most from them. The disastrously corrupt political state of many African states, the wars which plague them have their basis here and not in the traditonal tribal setup.

Throw in the equally savage struggle for religious supremacy between Islam and the Christian sects, and you simply throw fuel on the fire.

In any case yours is a rather amateurish analysis, and rather convenient one too, to allow you to be content from far off with your sense of cultural and moral superiority. But is blinded and uniformed to those inconvenient realities that refute it.

 

[ChrisE]

You remind me of an economist I once knew, who thought that the solution to the (rich) world's problems was to be found in there being about 3 billion to many of us. It isn't difficult to imagine the solution.

In regards to your concept of "being in good shape" and progress (through the interjection of money I suppose), it is one entirely based upon the rather elementary sense of culture you obviously possess. One cannot desire something which one doesn't know.

I'd argue that the arrival of Western Civilization in Africa upset with greater force the delicate equilibrium established by the tribal cultures between man and his environment, than it did in upgrading the quality of life for those tribes. In fact, quite the opposite has been true. The inception of an economy, political structures and materialism based upon our world's model, has created much more havoc than it has done in solving "problems," which, in the way you percieve them, in reality didn't exist before colonialism. And neither did apartheid either.

The brutality of invasive colonialism has, to the contrary, generated an as yet unseen misery: whereas the appetites of our industrialists has led to for the first time in those societies an equally brutal competition for who controlls the management of those resources and, consequently, gets to profit the most from them. The disastrously corrupt political state of many African states, the wars which plague them have their basis here and not in the traditonal tribal setup.

Throw in the equally savage struggle for religious supremacy between Islam and the Christian sects, and you simply throw fuel on the fire.

In any case yours is a rather amateurish analysis, and rather convenient one too, to allow you to be content from far off with your sense of cultural and moral superiority. But is blinded and uniformed to those inconvenient realities that refute it.

I said no such thing; my position is that the problems of overpruduction/poor living conditions existed before colonialism or "invasion" of western civilization into these cultures. I just took issue with you writing it off as a cultural thing and not just being stupid.

And I also take issue with your blame directed toward western society. Colonialism didn't make these people drop the planned parenthood courses and toss out the birth control pamphlets, and change their diet from ribeyes to dirt.

The "brutal competition for control of their resources" lol. That would be funnier if I didn't think you really believed it. Yes, the resources that existed in these countries and would still be in the ground if it wasn't for western technology and innovation, and yes the influx of western corporations. And, the living conditions and cultural stupidity would still be there whether Exxon was there or not.

The traditional tribal states in these countries are inherently anti-democratic as well, and how you think that along with zero influence from the western world would control population is lost on me. Yes, without the big bad US and others these people would be in mansions. Right. I read your argument but you confuse the issue I brought up and you are off base of the root cause.

Regardless of how base my thinking is in your opinion opportunities do exist, to a certain degree, in the world now for people and cultures to move beyond their present poor conditions if they choose or are able to. My question to you is why they don't? Please don't blame it on something that is not the basic problem.

 

[rhubroma]

I said no such thing; my position is that the problems of overpruduction/poor living conditions existed before colonialism or "invasion" of western civilization into these cultures. I just took issue with you writing it off as a cultural thing and not just being stupid.

And I also take issue with your blame directed toward western society. Colonialism didn't make these people drop the planned parenthood courses and toss out the birth control pamphlets, and change their diet from ribeyes to dirt.

The "brutal competition for control of their resources" lol. That would be funnier if I didn't think you really believed it. Yes, the resources that existed in these countries and would still be in the ground if it wasn't for western technology and innovation, and yes the influx of western corporations. And, the living conditions and cultural stupidity would still be there whether Exxon was there or not.

The traditional tribal states in these countries are inherently anti-democratic as well, and how you think that along with zero influence from the western world would control population is lost on me. Yes, without the big bad US and others these people would be in mansions. Right. I read your argument but you confuse the issue I brought up and you are off base of the root cause.

Regardless of how base my thinking is in your opinion opportunities do exist, to a certain degree, in the world now for people and cultures to move beyond their present poor conditions if they choose or are able to. My question to you is why they don't? Please don't blame it on something that is not the basic problem.

If the whole cultural aspect is so far beyond you, then there is nothing I could say that would help you to see with a bit more clarity. Like I said before, completely amateurish.

PS. Compliments on your avatar, though, as it really suits you.

 

[ChrisE]

If the whole cultural aspect is so far beyond you, then there is nothing I could say that would help you to see with a bit more clarity. Like I said before, completely amateurish.

PS. Compliments on your avatar, though, as it really suits you.

Just as I would expect from you, after sifting thru your utopian victim hogwash of the last several pages. BTW that avatar is actually a mirror.

PS: Why didn't your GF correct the idiot about pleasuring a woman? Never mind.....

 

[Anonymous]

via the quote unquote death tax....you dont have to pay more NOW until you go over the 7 million dollar limit...now the republicans are fighting for that limit...to raise it to unlimited...to take a "stand" for approx. .25 percent of the population who might ever be effected...quite a revolution...

 

[Anonymous]

via the quote unquote death tax....you dont have to pay more NOW until you go over the 7 million dollar limit...now the republicans are fighting for that limit...to raise it to unlimited...to take a "stand" for approx. .25 percent of the population who might ever be effected...quite a revolution...

Nope. Unlimited deduction this year (as it should be). Drops back to $1,000,000 starting in 2011, future legislation notwithstanding.

In 2009 to get a $7M deduction was assuming a married couple with a credit/shelter or QTip trust. The individual limit was $3.5M.

So, how many times should the govt get to tax the same money?

 

[rhubroma]

Just as I would expect from you, after sifting thru your utopian victim hogwash of the last several pages. BTW that avatar is actually a mirror.

PS: Why didn't your GF correct the idiot about pleasuring a woman? Never mind.....

Don't fret I explained to the lad how things actually work.

No my utopian hogwash is simply set against the backdrop of people like yourself who have that disagreeable habit of always looking down upon the rest of the world, as if only your self-gratifying position vaunts moral and cultural acclaim.

In any case to sum up the problems as owing to blanket stupidity, is an inanity which evidences a not very well disclosed racism. To suggest, moreover, that cultural, but also anthropological, forces were/are not decisive, demonstrates an idiocy of the most base types.

That Western colonialism was merely virtuous and without its disastrous effects on the tribal culture, is a vulgar and propagandistic lie without any bearing on the real nature of the phenomenon. Like the one about Manifest Destiny not having the crime hanging over it of perpetrating the virtual extinction of a native American population, while all under the rather perverse aegis of American democracy. Other than the virtues of the Democratic State. Only worse for Africa in the post-colonial era, which created a new order where previously none such existed, has been the forging of a power vacume that ruthless dictatorship and religious fanatacism has filled all with the tacit acceptence of the Western multinationals, whose only real concern is doing business at the lowest cost.

Don't you wish it was a mirror.

 

[ChrisE]

Don't fret I explained to the lad how things actually work.

No my utopian hogwash is simply set against the backdrop of people like yourself who have that disagreeable habit of always looking down upon the rest of the world, as if only your self-gratifying position vaunts moral and cultural acclaim.

In any case to sum up the problems as owing to blanket stupidity, is an inanity which evidences a not very well disclosed racism. To suggest, moreover, that cultural, but also anthropological, forces were/are not decisive, demonstrates an idiocy of the most base types.

That Western colonialism was merely virtuous and without its disastrous effects on the tribal culture, is a vulgar and propagandistic lie without any bearing on the real nature of the phenomenon. Like the one about Manifest Destiny not having the crime hanging over it of perpetrating the virtual extinction of a native American population, while all under the rather perverse aegis of American democracy. Other than the virtues of the Democratic State. Only worse for Africa in the post-colonial era, which created a new order where previously none such existed, has been the forging of a power vacume that ruthless dictatorship and religious fanatacism has filled all with the tacit acceptence of the Western multinationals, whose only real concern is doing business at the lowest cost.

Don't you wish it was a mirror.

Then why are you wasting your time on me? FYI I usually don't listen to rambling psychotic socialists that roll around in Kenya in a tent, but I give you credit. You are an interesting one with your big words and "education", tinged with anger at the haves. Your scary talk is almost enough to make me turn into a Republican.

What's funny about this is you haven't answered my original question. That's because confronting that reality would shoot holes in the victimhood of the oppressed that you promote.

It's cool that smart people like yourself are out in the world solving all of the injustice. That way my capitalistic pig a$$ can sit here in my insulated little world and let the smart ones such as yourself sort out it all out. Just don't go to one of these places and get yourself killed. That may make CNN and hurt my stock portfolio

 

[BroDeal]

There is not enough discussion of Teabaggers in this thread.

Here is the founder, president, and Grand Wizard of the Teabagger movement. I am sure this guy is not a racist.

 

[ihavenolimbs]

I'm not really following your capitalism quip. People are what they are, it's just some economic systems maybe expose them more than others.

More wealth and/or education means less babies. A feature of the current economic system is highly-unequal distribution of wealth and education. The capitalist system is selecting for a tiny ruling elite and a majority of poor and poorly-educated. I assumed this was obvious.

 

[usedtobefast]

There is not enough discussion of Teabaggers in this thread.

Here is the founder, president, and Grand Wizard of the Teabagger movement. I am sure this guy is not a racist.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/the-tea-party-is-all-abou_b_484229.html

more on that.

 

[usedtobefast]

More wealth and/or education means less babies. A feature of the current economic system is highly-unequal distribution of wealth and education. The capitalist system is selecting for a tiny ruling elite and a majority of poor and poorly-educated. I assumed this was obvious.

more bodies to burn on the beach, if you will. economic slavery.

 

[Anonymous]

There is not enough discussion of Teabaggers in this thread.

Here is the founder, president, and Grand Wizard of the Teabagger movement. I am sure this guy is not a racist.

He didn't spell it right, so its okay. I am sure Sarah will note how it is "sarcasm" when he writes it.

 

[scribe]

Dont let the door hit you in the **** on your way out, rush....

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/the_single_best_reason_to_pass.html

 

[ravens]

Dont let the door hit you in the **** on your way out, rush....

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/the_single_best_reason_to_pass.html

Funny. You take this so called reporter/blogger/journalist/party operative's word for anything and he doesn't even read the link to his own talking points before sticking it in his blog.

Private health care is also available, very affordable, and high quality. Many doctors speak English and have received training in Europe, Canada, or the U.S. There are three large, private hospitals that most expatriates use: CIMA hospital in Escazú, Clinica Biblica in San José, and Clinica Católica in San José-Guadalupe.

Hang onto that last straw. Your ignorance precedes you.

 

[ChrisE]

Funny. You take this so called reporter/blogger/journalist/party operative's word for anything and he doesn't even read the link to his own talking points before sticking it in his blog.



Hang onto that last straw. Your ignorance precedes you.

Are you saying the Obama plan would make private health care unavailable in the US? Maybe you should read up a bit.

 

[ravens]

Are you saying the Obama plan would make private health care unavailable in the US? Maybe you should read up a bit.

I am saying that Costa Rica has an entire tourism business treating wealthy non-costa ricans, eg, Americans. I read the link provided and read the link that the author in that article cited. God only knows wtf you are trying to read into what I said.

 

[ChrisE]

I am saying that Costa Rica has an entire tourism business treating wealthy non-costa ricans, eg, Americans. I read the link provided and read the link that the author in that article cited. God only knows wtf you are trying to read into what I said.

If you read and comprehended the link (which I highly doubt), it stated CR has universal healthcare as well as a private choice.

Are you that dense?

 

[ravens]

One of the 'bi-partisan' ideas that the empty suit Obama had to endure having offered to him was tort reform. Of course he couldn't implement it since he lawyers own one of the strings in their Obama marionette. Costa Rica operates their health care system with the acceptance that health care providers do occasionally make mistakes. The difference in their system is that if a mistake occurs by a doctor, nurse or other party involved in providing health care services, legal claims are limited by the injured party to the actual cost of the procedure and nothing more. By taking out the cost of malpractice insurance, huge awards, litigation and compensation to these unfortunate few, their health care system is not supporting huge expenses paid through litigation. This eliminates a number of costs that we incur in the US, attorney fees, malpractice insurance costs, awards paid to injured parties for pain, lost wages and survivor benefits, etc. It also discourages the need to over test; over administer drugs and remedies, i.e. testing to find every possible malady, again out of fear of malpractice in the event some rare issue gets missed. Doctors in the US are so afraid of malpractice that they test for everything, exposing patients to unneeded surgeries, potentially lethal drugs and unnecessary expenses. This cost is passed on throughout our health care system by the hospitals, the staff, the increased use of equipment, over prescription of potentially lethal medications and the hectic pace that this over testing and fear based system requires.

Costa rica has lawyers, not guys who went to college in order to game the system and line their own pockets (see Edwards, John.)

 

[rhubroma]

Then why are you wasting your time on me? FYI I usually don't listen to rambling psychotic socialists that roll around in Kenya in a tent, but I give you credit. You are an interesting one with your big words and "education", tinged with anger at the haves. Your scary talk is almost enough to make me turn into a Republican.

What's funny about this is you haven't answered my original question. That's because confronting that reality would shoot holes in the victimhood of the oppressed that you promote.

It's cool that smart people like yourself are out in the world solving all of the injustice. That way my capitalistic pig a$$ can sit here in my insulated little world and let the smart ones such as yourself sort out it all out. Just don't go to one of these places and get yourself killed. That may make CNN and hurt my stock portfolio

I never have claimed to be "smart," though do believe to be objective and allow myself to percieve, consequently, those uncomfortable realities caused by so-called virtuous society and its hypocrisies, which many prefer to simply ignore; because to do otherwise would be too devestating to their consciences and sense of world order. And I am ruthlessly self-critical, so much so that every idea of mine must be deconstructed, if not completely extinguished, before arriving at any personal comprehension of a particular matter.

In any case to answer your original question: it is caused by ignorance, not stupidity, and a culture which has continued to be based upon natural selection, even within a new order (imposed upon the old one with colonialism) which is antithetical to such tribal mores, and thus anti-nature.

Don't lacerate your mind trying to figure that out, nor worry excessively about my future well being. However I would suggest that you actually get out there and see the world, because there is no better means to fabricate valid ideas on complex issues, and therefore not superficial ones, than from that which real experience teaches.

And it, furthermore, dispells so many unhelpful myths - and mistifying prejudices. It also permits you to get off of your fat a$$, relieves you of your isolation, and thus acts as a useful anecdote against that provincial mentality which atrophies the mind as only one living in their miniscule reality becomes mortally afflicted with.

That you might risk switching to the republican party from the democrat side of the ideological fence, because of me, is an unexpected honor that you have unwittingly bestowed upon me. Because one less anti-social justice democrat, may help the party, even though I naturally highly doubt it, wake up from its ideological slumber which has virtually annihilated the credibilty of the left wing in America today. This, yes, I would gladly take credit for, though it has nothing to do with being smart. Cheers