World Politics

[buckwheat]

I normally stay out of the US Politics side of things because although my passport may say USA, I would definitely say I was British. But since Healthcare is a big deal etc. I have been reading up, doing the rounds, and JESUS H. CHRIST. how does anyone take Fox News seriously?

And why is anything remotely altruistic Communist and subversive?

I mean damn. Country is more fu5ked than I thought from my time in [admittedly sheltered] situations in the States.

Sorry for interrupting the flow, but had to say something

Don't apologize. I live in Florida. I'm 45 and ready to leave the country. Your post was a breath of fresh air.

 

[Anonymous]

I normally stay out of the US Politics side of things because although my passport may say USA, I would definitely say I was British. But since Healthcare is a big deal etc. I have been reading up, doing the rounds, and JESUS H. CHRIST. how does anyone take Fox News seriously?

And why is anything remotely altruistic Communist and subversive?

I mean damn. Country is more fu5ked than I thought from my time in [admittedly sheltered] situations in the States.

Sorry for interrupting the flow, but had to say something

You are correct. The USA is completely f'ed up.


http://www.atr.org/userfiles/031810pr-ObamaCare_By_The_Numbers(2).pdf



And;

16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/16500-more-IRS-agents-needed-to-enforce-Obamacare-88458137.html?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell

 

[buckwheat]

I normally stay out of the US Politics side of things because although my passport may say USA, I would definitely say I was British. But since Healthcare is a big deal etc. I have been reading up, doing the rounds, and JESUS H. CHRIST. how does anyone take Fox News seriously?

And why is anything remotely altruistic Communist and subversive?

I mean damn. Country is more fu5ked than I thought from my time in [admittedly sheltered] situations in the States.

Sorry for interrupting the flow, but had to say something

Damn, I'm out of here. Just can't take the whining of the rich rugged individualists who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps.

 

[Anonymous]

Damn, I'm out of here. Just can't take the whining of the rich rugged individualists who pulled themselves up by their bootstraps.

Why? Your side is doing a victory lap right now. I mean, you should be thrilled.

 

[TRDean]

Why? Your side is doing a victory lap right now. I mean, you should be thrilled.

To lighten it up a little..Scott, I had an Affligem Blonde this weekend...darn that was good...what is your opinion?

 

[Anonymous]

To lighten it up a little..Scott, I had an Affligem Blonde this weekend...darn that was good...what is your opinion?

Fantastic beer. I'm a fan of everything they brew. Cool town too.

Try the dubbel.

 

[TRDean]

Fantastic beer. I'm a fan of everything they brew. Cool town too.

Try the dubbel.

Will do...thanks!!

 

[Big GMaC]

Why? Your side is doing a victory lap right now. I mean, you should be thrilled.

And this the other thing, everything politically related is so charge it becomes aggressive, confrontational. The society is bi-polar to an incredible degree on almost every issue. Us or them, Communists or Slave-Owners, no decisions made just because they are beneficial to the country, not even that, people won't even talk. My American family has be destroyed by the Rep / Dem divide. The generation above me cannot even be in the same room for 10 minutes before sh!t kicks off.

The funniest thing about it for me is, I am living over here in Shanghai right now and it has really shown how fu5ked America is. Truely. Unless they get their heads out of their asses VERY soon and realise the deep running systemic problems are more important than arguing over 'He did something I don't like therefore he's a Communist'

The progress [Not going into Human Rights issue here, but before you counter me with those try Iraq War Crimes / Illegal Interrogation] that is being made here [China] will have America On Its Knees in I guess 15 years / 30 tops. And that is before you even start on India.

Doing the Simple Math:

China @ 1600 Million
USA @ 340 Million

I know which country I will be looking at closely when I come out of college.

Finally, how is this for an anecdote:

Recently, on a night of which Tom Boonen would be proud I fell and opened up a cut above my eye. I went to Local Shanghai ER.

6 Stitches @ 6RMB each. I was in and stumbling out under 40 minutes for 36RMB and saved on anaesthetic because I couldn't feel a thing because of Mr. J.Walker and his Red Labels.

36RMB = c.$5

Same thing happened to my friend in America, although his was at a Martial Arts gym. But same type of cut.

$700 for the ER fee
$2400 for the stitches

$5 plays £3100. I see only 1 winner.

 

[Anonymous]

And this the other thing, everything politically related is so charge it becomes aggressive, confrontational. The society is bi-polar to an incredible degree on almost every issue. Us or them, Communists or Slave-Owners, no decisions made just because they are beneficial to the country, not even that, people won't even talk. My American family has be destroyed by the Rep / Dem divide. The generation above me cannot even be in the same room for 10 minutes before sh!t kicks off.

The funniest thing about it for me is, I am living over here in Shanghai right now and it has really shown how fu5ked America is. Truely. Unless they get their heads out of their asses VERY soon and realise the deep running systemic problems are more important than arguing over 'He did something I don't like therefore he's a Communist'

The progress [Not going into Human Rights issue here, but before you counter me with those try Iraq War Crimes / Illegal Interrogation] that is being made here [China] will have America On Its Knees in I guess 15 years / 30 tops. And that is before you even start on India.

Doing the Simple Math:

China @ 1600 Million
USA @ 340 Million

I know which country I will be looking at closely when I come out of college.

Finally, how is this for an anecdote:

Recently, on a night of which Tom Boonen would be proud I fell and opened up a cut above my eye. I went to Local Shanghai ER.

6 Stitches @ 6RMB each. I was in and stumbling out under 40 minutes for 36RMB and saved on anaesthetic because I couldn't feel a thing because of Mr. J.Walker and his Red Labels.

36RMB = c.$5

Same thing happened to my friend in America, although his was at a Martial Arts gym. But same type of cut.

$700 for the ER fee
$2400 for the stitches

$5 plays £3100. I see only 1 winner.

Two things;

China already has America on it's knees.

When you get out of college you will enter the job market and I hope you will be wildly successful in your chosen profession. Unless you get into acedemia, I'm guessing you will see the world from a different frame of reference within several years of leaving school.

 

[Big GMaC]

Two things;

China already has America on it's knees.

When you get out of college you will enter the job market and I hope you will be wildly successful in your chosen profession. Unless you get into acedemia, I'm guessing you will see the world from a different frame of reference within several years of leaving school.

Granted.

Probably. I wouldn't say I was an overly-idealistic youth, many of my friends find me to be cynical, but I just don't understand Republican logic at all. Hell, not even republican logic, most American logic, i.e. the way society is going dumbfounds me

 

[BroDeal]

Probably. I wouldn't say I was an overly-idealistic youth, many of my friends find me to be cynical, but I just don't understand Republican logic at all. Hell, not even republican logic, most American logic, i.e. the way society is going dumbfounds me

There is no logic. The Republicans are useful idiots for their corporate masters. Note the ridiculous claims that we are on the road to socialism and nashing of teeth about the cost of a watered down (and nearly useless) health care bill that the CBO estimates will lower the deficit in the first ten years. Even disregarding the income that will be brought in to more than offset the cost, the total price is less than a trillion dollars over ten years.

Before Bush left office the total cost of his wars was three trillion, none of it funded, all of it borrowed. Where were the conservatives during the last ten years? Where was the outrage about Bush turning a budget surplus into a record setting deficit? It was nowhere to be found. Yet spending a third as much on Americans instead of dumping the money into a desert wasteland is a call to arms.

That hypocrisy tells everything. This has nothing to do with socialism or even spending. The health care issue is merely a political device being used to rile up the conservative base. Most of those who are complaining won't even be affected by the bill, which is mostly designed to aid the working poor who do not have employer purchased insurance. The people bemoaning the injustice of being forced to buy insurance are the same people who already have insurance and deny there are any problems with the current system.

Scott and his hearltess ilk do a lot of complaining. I have not heard one proposal for a solution from them. Let's hear it. How would Scott and his right wingers fix the health care system, which now consumes more than 17% of the GDP, a figure that is expected to grow to 21% in ten years? Is their plan to just sit on our hands until the country faces financial disaster, much like Bush did when he was president?

 

[Oncearunner8]

Yes it does. However, understand at the true conservative's core, the solution is that these people should be denied health care until they could show proof of the ability to pay for it. If they are too poor, not intelligent enough, or weren't ruthless enough in life to make a lot of money, they they'll just have to do without, or get whatever health care from free donations from other people. The conservative's principle is "I'm not paying a single penny for anyone else, no matter how bad off they are, how much money I have, or how I got my money." Many of them also believe that a single breach of that, even on the smallest level, will lead to full collectivism.



Yes, a perfect example. Most conservatives believe these people should be turned away at medical centers and put back on the street, receiving no health care. Or better yet, arrested and deported for being in the country illegally; even if in dire need of medical assistance. They can get that back in the country they came from.

Your full of **** if you think that is what I wrote!

 

[Oncearunner8]

Wrong, car insurance.

There is no "right to drive a car" in the US constitution that I know about.

Wrong, Article 3

What about amend. 8 and 9? No room to wiggle on that?

It is for a good cause, and one that would have seen no improvement if it were left to the Republicans. It is a myth to say they would have done ANYTHING about health care left to their own devices.

This is about only thing I would agree with you on.

 

[Anonymous]

From your posted article;

Taxes and fees

Drug makers face annual fee of $2.5 billion (rises in subsequent years).

Taxes and fees

New Medicare taxes on individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and couples filing jointly earning more than $250,000 a year.
Tax on wages rises to 2.35% from 1.45%.
New 3.8% tax on unearned income such as dividends and interest.
Excise tax of 2.9% imposed on sale of medical devices

Requirement begins for most people to have health insurance. Subsidies begin for lower and middle-income people. People at 133% of federal poverty level pay maximum of 3% of income for coverage. People at 400% of poverty level pay up to 9.5% of income. (Poverty level currently is about $22,000 for a family of four.)

Taxes and fees

Employers with more than 50 employees that don't provide affordable coverage must pay a fine if employees receive tax credits to buy insurance. Fine is up to $3,000 per employee, excluding first 30 employees.
Insurance industry must pay annual fee of $8 billion (rises in subsequent years).

Taxes and fees

Penalty for those who don't carry coverage rises to 2.5% of taxable income or $695, whichever is greater

Taxes and fees

Excise tax of 40% imposed on health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage.

Yea, unlike Republicans who pay for things with tax cuts...oh wait, that never works...what was it Reagan said about deficits? Guess that only works when you are privatizing the profit of your real constituents...you know, so that you can socialize their losses.....where was I?...well, in this case they collecting the money to pay for the law. Good for them.

 

[Anonymous]

Bad analogy TFF. No one forces you to buy car insurance if you don't drive. Huge difference.

My guess is that the federal Govt will be sued within minutes of Obama signing this legislation and we are gonna find out if it passes constitutional muster.

Uh, no it isn't. You made the statement "Well, for starters, for the first time in the history of the USA it's citizens are being compelled to purchase a product." and I showed you that your statement was incorrect. That was no analogy.

 

[Anonymous]

I normally stay out of the US Politics side of things because although my passport may say USA, I would definitely say I was British. But since Healthcare is a big deal etc. I have been reading up, doing the rounds, and JESUS H. CHRIST. how does anyone take Fox News seriously?

And why is anything remotely altruistic Communist and subversive?

I mean damn. Country is more fu5ked than I thought from my time in [admittedly sheltered] situations in the States.

Sorry for interrupting the flow, but had to say something

Don't apologize, you are right on the mark.

 

[Anonymous]

Two things;

China already has America on it's knees.

When you get out of college you will enter the job market and I hope you will be wildly successful in your chosen profession. Unless you get into acedemia, I'm guessing you will see the world from a different frame of reference within several years of leaving school.

Why, that cannot be true, communism doesn't work...

 

[Oncearunner8]

Granted.

Probably. I wouldn't say I was an overly-idealistic youth, many of my friends find me to be cynical, but I just don't understand Republican logic at all. Hell, not even republican logic, most American logic, i.e. the way society is going dumbfounds me

not me .... **** china and its society.

 

[Anonymous]

There is no logic. The Republicans are useful idiots for their corporate masters. Note the ridiculous claims that we are on the road to socialism and nashing of teeth about the cost of a watered down (and nearly useless) health care bill that the CBO estimates will lower the deficit in the first ten years. Even disregarding the income that will be brought in to more than offset the cost, the total price is less than a trillion dollars over ten years.

Before Bush left office the total cost of his wars was three trillion, none of it funded, all of it borrowed. Where were the conservatives during the last ten years? Where was the outrage about Bush turning a budget surplus into a record setting deficit? It was nowhere to be found. Yet spending a third as much on Americans instead of dumping the money into a desert wasteland is a call to arms.

That hypocrisy tells everything. This has nothing to do with socialism or even spending. The health care issue is merely a political device being used to rile up the conservative base. Most of those who are complaining won't even be affected by the bill, which is mostly designed to aid the working poor who do not have employer purchased insurance. The people bemoaning the injustice of being forced to buy insurance are the same people who already have insurance and deny there are any problems with the current system.

Scott and his hearltess ilk do a lot of complaining. I have not heard one proposal for a solution from them. Let's hear it. How would Scott and his right wingers fix the health care system, which now consumes more than 17% of the GDP, a figure that is expected to grow to 21% in ten years? Is their plan to just sit on our hands until the country faces financial disaster, much like Bush did when he was president?

Yea, if you read what the Republicans say it is (European style socialized medicine) and then actually read what it does, you have to wonder what planet they live on.

It is a watered down mess that does some good...which is more than would have ever happened under Republican "leadership."

 

[Oncearunner8]

Yea, unlike Republicans who pay for things with tax cuts...oh wait, that never works...what was it Reagan said about deficits? Guess that only works when you are privatizing the profit of your real constituents...you know, so that you can socialize their losses.....where was I?...well, in this case they collecting the money to pay for the law. Good for them.

Funny you should mention President Regan. If we take taxes back to what they were during the “President Regan Years” we would be able to afford most of the health care reform and also take back some debt. If I am not completely wrong I think that is what President Obama proposed earlier in the campaign or during his first few months in office. Trouble is that Everyone starts screaming about increase in taxes. If everyone were to stop and think for a moment and agree to listen before we start our ….Libreals this and Conservatives that. ….”we the people” would be much better.

 

[Oncearunner8]

Why, that cannot be true, communism doesn't work...

Well to be honest the current form of communism in china is a different capitalistic animal. I guess you could call it a hybrid of sorts between socialism / communism and capitalism.

Interesting to see how it will all shake out.

 

[Anonymous]

Wrong, car insurance.

There is no "right to drive a car" in the US constitution that I know about.

Read his statement, then read my answer. He needs to write a more detailed statement if he wants to include the scope he and you seem to now ascribe to said statement.

Wrong, Article 3

What about amend. 8 and 9? No room to wiggle on that?

8th "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

Fines are not taxes, unless you know of a precedent set by the Supreme Court I don't know about...and you don't.

9th "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Unless you know of a precedent set by the Supreme Court that suggests the Federal government is not authorized to enact such legislation, you have not point...and you don't.

I realize that Republicans currently believe they are the sole judge of what is and is not constitutional, but Article 3 says that the Supreme Court has that sole authority, and unless you have precedent that I don't know about (and you don't), then all you have are talking points backed up by not ONE SINGLE INSTANCE OF PRECEDENT.

It is for a good cause, and one that would have seen no improvement if it were left to the Republicans. It is a myth to say they would have done ANYTHING about health care left to their own devices.

This is about only thing I would agree with you on.

We will always have Paris...or Red Lobster

 

[Anonymous]

Well to be honest the current form of communism in china is a different capitalistic animal. I guess you could call it a hybrid of sorts between socialism / communism and capitalism.

Interesting to see how it will all shake out.

...and that is what we have had for over 100 years. It is called a mixed economy, and I am starting to wonder if anyone on the Republican side paid attention during their high school economics class. We have had socialist principles since the Pure Food and Drug Act...you know, over 100 years ago.

 

[Anonymous]

There is no logic. The Republicans are useful idiots for their corporate masters. Note the ridiculous claims that we are on the road to socialism and nashing of teeth about the cost of a watered down (and nearly useless) health care bill that the CBO estimates will lower the deficit in the first ten years. Even disregarding the income that will be brought in to more than offset the cost, the total price is less than a trillion dollars over ten years.

Before Bush left office the total cost of his wars was three trillion, none of it funded, all of it borrowed. Where were the conservatives during the last ten years? Where was the outrage about Bush turning a budget surplus into a record setting deficit? It was nowhere to be found. Yet spending a third as much on Americans instead of dumping the money into a desert wasteland is a call to arms.

That hypocrisy tells everything. This has nothing to do with socialism or even spending. The health care issue is merely a political device being used to rile up the conservative base. Most of those who are complaining won't even be affected by the bill, which is mostly designed to aid the working poor who do not have employer purchased insurance. The people bemoaning the injustice of being forced to buy insurance are the same people who already have insurance and deny there are any problems with the current system.

Scott and his hearltess ilk do a lot of complaining. I have not heard one proposal for a solution from them. Let's hear it. How would Scott and his right wingers fix the health care system, which now consumes more than 17% of the GDP, a figure that is expected to grow to 21% in ten years? Is their plan to just sit on our hands until the country faces financial disaster, much like Bush did when he was president?

Yes, conservatives giggle when people lie in their own filth in the street begging for crumbs from the lavish tables of the uber wealthy.

I would be happy to outline free market solutions but you and your ilk won't, haven't and never will listen. Your way too wraped up in the one-upsmanship and Alinsky style drive-by verbal attacks.

BTW, how much of the GDP will the new healthcare system consume now that it's the law? Any reduction? And your CBO talking points fail to mention the "doctors fix" for medicare cuts which will more than erase any savings that CBO has estimated. So now Obama has this situation;

Save money over the long haul by decimating Medicare/Medicaid and taxing the living shyte out of business and consumers, or

Keep some financial integrity within the Medicare system by "fixing" the doctors/providers reimbursement amounts thus torpedoing the deficit and debt (according to the CBO).

BTW#2, who EXACTLY is saying there is no problem with the current system?

BTW#3, I notice there is a 'fee' for big Pharma. Where do you suppose those costs will filter? Oh screw it, price fix or nationalize...

BTW#4, One of the ways medical insurance companies are able to structure a policy to make it actuarily sound is to limit the maximum exposure. Most health policies are limited to $3M, $8M or $10M lifetime maximums. Now there will be no limit. How exactly is that going to drive insurance costs down? Please explain.

BTW#5, Insurance companies will be require to take everyone no matter how unhealthy they may be. Um, can you imagine how expensive your auto insurance would be if you were lumped in with all the poor risk drivers out there? How will this lower premiums? Please explain.

 

[Anonymous]

Funny you should mention President Regan. If we take taxes back to what they were during the “President Regan Years” we would be able to afford most of the health care reform and also take back some debt. If I am not completely wrong I think that is what President Obama proposed earlier in the campaign or during his first few months in office. Trouble is that Everyone starts screaming about increase in taxes. If everyone were to stop and think for a moment and agree to listen before we start our ….Libreals this and Conservatives that. ….”we the people” would be much better.

We have more than Paris and Red Lobster then, because I agree.