World Politics

[Anonymous]

For god’s sakes Scott try to drink more beer and chill!

Great idea. Off to the pub I'yam.

 

[Oncearunner8]

Great idea. Off to the pub I'yam.

Same here, the whistle just blew and my day at the rock quarry is done.

St. Arnolds Amber and Abita Amber on the way!

I am off to talk with the evil empire people from BP and Transocean. Did you happen to see the new thread on the oil well? Check it out. The first post is a winner!

 

[Anonymous]

Same here, the whistle just blew and my day at the rock quarry is done.

St. Arnolds Amber and Abita Amber on the way!

I am off to talk with the evil empire people from BP and Transocean. Did you happen to see the new thread on the oil well? Check it out. The first post is a winner!

I saw it. I can't figure out how the Russians are going to stop a volcanic oil well at 40,000ft with nuclear... weapons, I guess? The funny thing is I read that sober and still was confused.

 

[buckwheat]

Same here, the whistle just blew and my day at the rock quarry is done.

St. Arnolds Amber and Abita Amber on the way!

I am off to talk with the evil empire people from BP and Transocean. Did you happen to see the new thread on the oil well? Check it out. The first post is a winner!

You've successfully dodged the question about the ability to contain spills at varying depths or you're working on an answer?

 

[patricknd]

Same here, the whistle just blew and my day at the rock quarry is done.

St. Arnolds Amber and Abita Amber on the way!

I am off to talk with the evil empire people from BP and Transocean. Did you happen to see the new thread on the oil well? Check it out. The first post is a winner!

i think i paid for the new st. arnolds brewery in the last 3 or 4 months.

 

[Oncearunner8]

You've successfully dodged the question about the ability to contain spills at varying depths or you're working on an answer?

hey wheat I am not dodging your question or I am ???? anywho ... I will answer it in a bit. After my 50something ***.......LMAO I am ****ing 40 **** wheat.....has had some time to get my daughter to bed. hang tight and clear hot you ball buster.

 

[Oncearunner8]

i think i paid for the new st. arnolds brewery in the last 3 or 4 months.

I hear you man. That is all I really drink and the Azz cranks where I usually go have decided to stop selling it! The nerve of those commie MF'rs ...

 

[ChrisE]

You've successfully dodged the question about the ability to contain spills at varying depths or you're working on an answer?

I listed some of the challenges. As smart as you are I thought you would have come up with a plan before now.

Typical liberal.....always looking for somebody else to solve the difficult problems.

 

[buckwheat]

I listed some of the challenges. As smart as you are I thought you would have come up with a plan before now.

Typical liberal.....always looking for somebody else to solve the difficult problems.

I subscribe to the "first do no harm" kind of philosophy.

I didn't tell these screwballs to walk a high wire without a net.

Btw, I drove about 3k miles last year. I rode my bike about 10k miles. What can I say?

 

[buckwheat]

St. Arnolds Amber and Abita Amber on the way!

They don't frown on that stuff in Texas? I thought those tough guys wouldn't be too particular and drink a PBR or something. Damn, I like em. $2.50 for a 4 pak 16 oz.

Oh, I see it's from Texas. The Root Beer looks pretty good. No kidding. No HFCS.

 

[Anonymous]

So... when is the IMF gonna bail us out??

The United States posted an $82.69 billion deficit in April, nearly four times the $20.91 billion shortfall registered in April 2009 and the largest on record for that month, the Treasury Department said on Wednesday.

It was more than twice the $40-billion deficit that Wall Street economists surveyed by Reuters had forecast and was striking since April marks the filing deadline for individual income taxes that are the main source of government revenue.

Wow. These A-Holes in the white house need to get their shit together... can't blame Bush forever.


http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64B53W20100512

 

[Oncearunner8]

They don't frown on that stuff in Texas? I thought those tough guys wouldn't be too particular and drink a PBR or something. Damn, I like em. $2.50 for a 4 pak 16 oz.

Oh, I see it's from Texas. The Root Beer looks pretty good. No kidding. No HFCS.

I like PBR also but I would rather have the Amber ale.

We can even get cocacola from mexico made with sugar. That is all the rage these days.

 

[Oncearunner8]

You've successfully dodged the question about the ability to contain spills at varying depths or you're working on an answer?

By this time I think it is clear that drilling in deepwater presents challenges that just do not exist with shallow water. Since they have not changed regulations very much since the 80’s it is also clear that there needs to be a different set of reg’s for deepwater drilling.

Certainly they will do this now. It is a sad situation that they did not act proactively to try and prevent such an accident. I know they are a corporation that makes money and that is the primary objective for them.

Seems like to me……that Transocean will take the fall for this, of course that is my opinion so lets see how it will work out.

I hope that BP are successful today placing the containment option over the main leak. I was also very optimistic about the first attempt but did not realize they had no connected any closed loop methanol system on the larger containment zone. I had been under the impression from conversations that I had with certain individuals that they were already implementing that system.

 

[buckwheat]

By this time I think it is clear that drilling in deepwater presents challenges that just do not exist with shallow water. Since they have not changed regulations very much since the 80’s it is also clear that there needs to be a different set of reg’s for deepwater drilling.

Certainly they will do this now. It is a sad situation that they did not act proactively to try and prevent such an accident. I know they are a corporation that makes money and that is the primary objective for them.

Seems like to me……that Transocean will take the fall for this, of course that is my opinion so lets see how it will work out.

I hope that BP are successful today placing the containment option over the main leak. I was also very optimistic about the first attempt but did not realize they had no connected any closed loop methanol system on the larger containment zone. I had been under the impression from conversations that I had with certain individuals that they were already implementing that system.

I see we're pretty much in agreement then. If we need the oil, which we apparently do, and it's universally recognized that accidents while infrequent, are catastrophic when the occur, the need for regulation is obvious. Jeez, it's better to pay 50 cents more for a gallon of gas to have the state of the art prevention and containment procedures and technologies in place than have this kind of crap going on.

One thing I've read is that while BP's safety record is not good, Exxon Mobil has learned a lot from their disaster in Alaska and is apparently a model citizen on these safety issues. Do they use Transocean? Is every oil company involved in the deep well drilling? Is there a difference between the oil companies?

You mentioned shallow water. How shallow is shallow? Is there a kind of point of no return level, because from what I've read there are significantly deeper wells. These wells in the Arctic also seem to be nutty.

 

[buckwheat]

We can even get cocacola from mexico made with sugar. That is all the rage these days.

We get the Kosher Coke around passover and everyone stocks up. It's been cleared by the Rabbi's evidently.

I have no idea why sugar is Kosher and HCFS isn't and maybe it's also something else in the processing.

 

[ChrisE]

One thing I've read is that while BP's safety record is not good, Exxon Mobil has learned a lot from their disaster in Alaska and is apparently a model citizen on these safety issues. Do they use Transocean? Is every oil company involved in the deep well drilling? Is there a difference between the oil companies?
.

I'm not sure Transocean is responsible. BP filed and obtained the permit for the well, it was their find, and both Transocean and Halliburton were their subcontractors. I have read the BOP was "tampered with", and even if Transocean rigged it then I still don't see how it is not BP's legal fault. I have also read that certain pressure readings were ignored, and I would assume BP operations was on deck making those decisions. I would assume Transocean was not running the show in drilling operations....maybe OAR can clarify.

I was talking to a buddy last night that works in an onshore major refinery and this is his position as well. No subcontractor does anything in their plant without their blessing. Let's put it this way.....if Joe Bob subcontractor does something wrong in a plant and it explodes, killing dozens and effecting all surrounding areas, the owner will of course not be able to walk away from this with no liability.

It would be nice to know exactly what the contracts between all entities say. Of course, nobody in the press has asked that question yet.

 

[Oncearunner8]

I see we're pretty much in agreement then. If we need the oil, which we apparently do, and it's universally recognized that accidents while infrequent, are catastrophic when the occur, the need for regulation is obvious. Jeez, it's better to pay 50 cents more for a gallon of gas to have the state of the art prevention and containment procedures and technologies in place than have this kind of crap going on.

One thing I've read is that while BP's safety record is not good, Exxon Mobil has learned a lot from their disaster in Alaska and is apparently a model citizen on these safety issues. Do they use Transocean? Is every oil company involved in the deep well drilling? Is there a difference between the oil companies?

You mentioned shallow water. How shallow is shallow? Is there a kind of point of no return level, because from what I've read there are significantly deeper wells. These wells in the Arctic also seem to be nutty.

In the past water depth above 1000 feet was unheard of in the industry. With the technological and industrial advancements also directional drilling advancement the deep water became the next step.

The demand is out there and the oil companies want to make money now.

Transocean is a drilling contractor for many oil companies. They contract out to whom ever has the cash. All the major oil companies are in deep water drilling and exploration. They are attracted to it because that is where the largest oil reserves are waiting to be found.

When I first heard abut Cap and Trade I thought what a horrible idea. The more I thought about it and also talked with some other people in the petro chemical industry I changed my mind. I think that if we can put in place stricter regulations on pollution and safety that it is of course a good thing. If they have to pass that along to me via the price per gallon of gas etc. then that is a price I have to pay for a better world. The part I do not like about Cap and Trade ( I may be misunderstanding it) is that we will not have a level competitive field throughout the world. It does not make sense but If we can still make the business end work then I am all for it.

 

[buckwheat]

I'm not sure Transocean is responsible. BP filed and obtained the permit for the well, it was their find, and both Transocean and Halliburton were their subcontractors. I have read the BOP was "tampered with", and even if Transocean rigged it then I still don't see how it is not BP's legal fault. I have also read that certain pressure readings were ignored, and I would assume BP operations was on deck making those decisions. I would assume Transocean was not running the show in drilling operations....maybe OAR can clarify.

I was talking to a buddy last night that works in an onshore major refinery and this is his position as well. No subcontractor does anything in their plant without their blessing. Let's put it this way.....if Joe Bob subcontractor does something wrong in a plant and it explodes, killing dozens and effecting all surrounding areas, the owner will of course not be able to walk away from this with no liability.

It would be nice to know exactly what the contracts between all entities say. Of course, nobody in the press has asked that question yet.

One thing I will say is that the finger pointing between these guys is already pretty offensive.

I know people don't want to pay $10 for a gallon of gas, but this is why people need to know wtf is going on so they can make informed decisions about all of the costs and potential costs, including things like accidents and climate change.

This simplistic "drill baby drill" bs and the secrecy between Cheney and the oil companies is just way out of bounds. This whole anti-intellectual bs of Palin should be ridiculed by everyone and the obscene recent SCOTUS decision allowing these big corporations to pervert democracy with unlimited contributions must be overturned. Jeez, get some reasonable checks and balances in there so the costs are understood and we can also transition away from fossil fuels. It's not like these people are evil but you give someone a billion dollars and no check on their appetites and you get the tragedy of Tiger Woods or an Oil spill. It's human nature.

Obviously someone who doesn't own a car and is off the grid isn't responsible for this mess, but otherwise, most of us do have some level of responsibility even if it's very tiny. That's why basic information is essential. Why anyone would want to be represented by someone who doesn't read and has no intellectual curiosity is beyond me. They want their drinking buddy to be POTUS? I mean you get Clinton and Obama and they are pretty offensive and annoying respectively, but you get a Bush and the guy doesn't even want to be there. He wants to be out riding his bike or clearing brush and he has no clue about his limitations. His father wanted to be there, he was always having press conferences and he was on the job at least, as was Clinton and Obama.

This Palin? You gotta be kidding. Look at this Bennet in Utah, pretty conservative, and these screwball tea baggers won't even let him compromise one bit. Supposedly they're after Hatch next according to el Rushbo.

See you got me ranting again.

 

[buckwheat]

In the past water depth above 1000 feet was unheard of in the industry. With the technological and industrial advancements also directional drilling advancement the deep water became the next step.

The demand is out there and the oil companies want to make money now.

Transocean is a drilling contractor for many oil companies. They contract out to whom ever has the cash. All the major oil companies are in deep water drilling and exploration. They are attracted to it because that is where the largest oil reserves are waiting to be found.

When I first heard abut Cap and Trade I thought what a horrible idea. The more I thought about it and also talked with some other people in the petro chemical industry I changed my mind. I think that if we can put in place stricter regulations on pollution and safety that it is of course a good thing. If they have to pass that along to me via the price per gallon of gas etc. then that is a price I have to pay for a better world. The part I do not like about Cap and Trade ( I may be misunderstanding it) is that we will not have a level competitive field throughout the world. It does not make sense but If we can still make the business end work then I am all for it.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Anonymous]

When I first heard abut Cap and Trade I thought what a horrible idea. The more I thought about it and also talked with some other people in the petro chemical industry I changed my mind. I think that if we can put in place stricter regulations on pollution and safety that it is of course a good thing. If they have to pass that along to me via the price per gallon of gas etc. then that is a price I have to pay for a better world. The part I do not like about Cap and Trade ( I may be misunderstanding it) is that we will not have a level competitive field throughout the world. It does not make sense but If we can still make the business end work then I am all for it.

It would be nice if there were viable alternatives to fossil fuels but this country is not there yet. In California the final touches of AB 32 are being implemented (cap and tax). There is a study showing, when fully implemented, a net job loss in excess of 1,000,000. That's after the "green" jobs are created. California is on the brink of bankruptcy right now. The loss of tax paying enterprise and personal income tax of 1,000,000 workers wil certainly not help. The quality of life in California will decline dramatically, particularly among the poor and working poor (the group hit the hardest by increases in energy costs).

Dr. David Kreutzer spoke before the House of Representatives about a year ago.

"The typical cap-and-trade proposal seeks to reduce CO2 emissions by 60 percent to 80 percent by 2050 where the comparison year is usually 2005. The Center for Data Analysis at The Heritage Foundation did an analysis of the costs of meeting the goals of the Lieberman-Warner bill, S. 2191, last spring. The report on this analysis is attached.[1]

Our analytical models are not suited to making projections beyond 2030. Nevertheless, the economic impacts of this cap-and-trade program in just the first two decades were extraordinary. The estimated aggregate losses to Gross Domestic Product (GDP), adjusted for inflation, are $4.8 trillion. By 2029 the job losses in the manufacturing sector will be nearly 3 million. This is over and above the nearly one million manufacturing job losses that most economists predict will occur even in the absence of global-warming legislation."

"Eighty-five percent of our energy use today is based on CO2-emitting fossil fuels. The ability to switch to non-CO2-emitting energy sources over the next 20 years is limited and expensive. Therefore, significant cuts in CO2 emissions require significant cuts in energy use. The energy cuts, in turn, reduce economic activity, shrink GDP, and destroy jobs.

The cap-and-trade schemes, as well as more straight-forward carbon taxes, limit emissions by making energy sufficiently more expensive that they cut their energy use. In addition to the direct impact on consumers' budgets for electricity, gasoline, heating oil, and natural gas, these higher energy costs force cutbacks on the production side of the economy and lead to lower output, employment, and income."

"A cap-and-trade program with an emissions reduction profile similar to that of last year's Lieberman-Warner bill, will cause an aggregate $5 trillion of transfers (taxes) after it destroys $4.8 trillion of national income (GDP).

In colloquial terms, the pie gets smaller by nearly $5 trillion and then a $5 trillion piece is cut out and redistributed."

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Testimony/The-Economic-Impact-of-Cap-and-Trade


Additional taxes of 5 Trillion with a 5 Trillion reduction in GDP. And then factor in this... If China and India do not react with similar measures, efforts to curb our CO2 output will result in net effect on the planet of zero, assuming one believes the global warming/CO2 cause and effect.. One more thing, our national debt is now $13,000,000,000,000. Our only hope is to get the economy turned around and expand the economy by 1.) putting as many people to work as companies can hire, and 2.) taxing the crap out of them. The problem with Cap and Tax is that it will only accomplish the latter.

 

[Anonymous]

OMG. I'm in TOTAL shock. Unbelieveable. Really.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14agency.html

 

[buckwheat]

OMG. I'm in TOTAL shock. Unbelieveable. Really.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14agency.html

You want even less government oversight? It looks like the people running this MMS from the previous administration (that's GWB) should be in jail.

I guess you don't realize that the Bush Administration watered down all the regulatory agencies and put industry lobbyists in as their leaders.

Are you being sarcastic? Jeez, you tried to ridicule my suspicions and what do you know, they're right on target. It's unbelievable that you're going to try to spin this into a "less government' rant." You're shocked? I can't wait to see what that fertile mind of yours creates.

Responding to the accusations that agency scientists were being silenced, Ms. Barkoff added, “Under the previous administration, there was a pattern of suppressing science in decisions, and we are working very hard to change the culture and empower scientists in the Department of the Interior.”


In a letter from September 2009, obtained by The New York Times, NOAA accused the minerals agency of a pattern of understating the likelihood and potential consequences of a major spill in the gulf and understating the frequency of spills that have already occurred there.

The letter accuses the agency of highlighting the safety of offshore oil drilling operations while overlooking more recent evidence to the contrary. The data used by the agency to justify its approval of drilling operations in the gulf play down the fact that spills have been increasing and understate the “risks and impacts of accidental spills,” the letter states. NOAA declined several requests for comment.


Much as BP’s drilling plan asserted that there was no chance of an oil spill, the company also claimed in federal documents that its drilling would not have any adverse effect on endangered species.

Tensions between scientists and managers at the agency erupted in one case last year involving a rig in the gulf called the BP Atlantis. An agency scientist complained to his bosses of catastrophic safety and environmental violations. The scientist said these complaints were ignored, so he took his concerns to higher officials at the Interior Department.

“The purpose of this letter is to restate in writing our concern that the BP Atlantis project presently poses a threat of serious, immediate, potentially irreparable and catastrophic harm to the waters of the Gulf of Mexico and its marine environment, and to summarize how BP’s conduct has violated federal law and regulations,” Kenneth Abbott, the agency scientist, wrote in a letter to officials at the Interior Department that was dated May 27.


Scott,

Doesn't this look like exactly what I was saying?

The accidents are foreseeable and predictable.

TFF, is this too black and white for you?

Oh, I'm 16 years old. Any more insults?

I probably should just "let it go."

 

[ChrisE]

OMG. I'm in TOTAL shock. Unbelieveable. Really.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14agency.html

"Those scientists said they were also regularly pressured by agency officials to change the findings of their internal studies if they predicted that an accident was likely to occur or if wildlife might be harmed."

Straight from the Cheney/CIA/Iraq playbook.

In all seriousness, this whole government needs to be purged. I am not so sure people are so much "anti-govt" as opposed to anti non-working govt. Obama is just an empty suit sporting triangulation and "bi-partisanship", like Clinton before him.

Recall under Clinton's watch the media was deregulated allowing more corporate ownership and his Justice Dept. ok'd the merger of all the large oil companies for example. This is an easy playbook to follow if you have half a brain. There is a long term goal of monopolizing industry in this country and deregulating oversight, but how they are doing it is subtle and clever; play to the ignorance of the public while this goes on behind the curtain. This is how companies become "too big to fail" and thus the govt (people) bail them out. Oh look, over there! Somebody is trying to take my guns away! Those homos are hurting the children!

Unfortunately, $ rules the roost in the US and without serious campaign finance or lobbying reform this same shyt will go on. It is going on in all facets of the "govt oversight" agencies right now, in all industries.

The supreme court just declared corporations as people. Corporations own the media outlets, and stupid people keep voting based upon their bigotry and insecurities fueled by this by-design shallow corporate owned media, further enabling this to go on.

 

[Anonymous]

OMG. I'm in TOTAL shock. Unbelieveable. Really.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/us/14agency.html

You are surprised regarding lax regulation of the oil industry during and immediately following having a president who was in the oil business, and a VP who was once CEO of Halliburton? Okay then...

 

[ChrisE]

You want even less government oversight? It looks like the people running this MMS from the previous administration (that's GWB) should be in jail.

Are you being sarcastic? Jeez, you tried to ridicule my suspicions and what do you know, they're right on target.

Responding to the accusations that agency scientists were being silenced, Ms. Barkoff added, “Under the previous administration, there was a pattern of suppressing science in decisions, and we are working very hard to change the culture and empower scientists in the Department of the Interior.”


In a letter from September 2009, obtained by The New York Times, NOAA accused the minerals agency of a pattern of understating the likelihood and potential consequences of a major spill in the gulf and understating the frequency of spills that have already occurred there.

The letter accuses the agency of highlighting the safety of offshore oil drilling operations while overlooking more recent evidence to the contrary. The data used by the agency to justify its approval of drilling operations in the gulf play down the fact that spills have been increasing and understate the “risks and impacts of accidental spills,” the letter states. NOAA declined several requests for comment.

Scott,

Doesn't this look like exactly what I was saying?

The accidents are foreseeable and predictable.

TFF, is this too black and white for you?

Oh, I'm 16 years old. Any more insults?

Not all accidents are foreseeable and predictable. There will always be human error and mechanical failures. But, you have a point that is all too obvious.

For the people to be stupid enough to settle for a government that doesn't work is their own fault. As I stated above, the majority of the people vote based upon things that have little impact on their life. The reason we are in the situation we are now is our own collective fault. Candidates that vow to put an end to all of this are ridiculed and marginalized by the media.