World Politics

[Semper Fidelis]

If you were paying attention....or paying attention to something besides the right wing gas bags you'd know that foxnews and the GOP foghorn are bending over backwards to portray the shooter as anything but a fellow right winger. They show a long haired high school picture of him even though there are recent ones with his Aryan nations dooo going.. Oxy Rush started his program today about the shooter smoking pot.. And then the houston guy on this forum echos him instantly..I didn't read the 7-11 avataring houston guy's other posts to see whether he agrees with me about anything..He like many are just easily told what to think and they do.

"""In October 2008, Tierney was living in Phoenix, and Loughner came to visit. They went to see a Mars Volta concert with friends, and Tierney was surprised when Loughner said he had quit partying "completely." Loughner, according to Tierney, said, "I'm going to lead a more healthy lifestyle, not smoke cigarettes or pot anymore, and I'm going to start working out." Tierney was happy for his friend: "I said, 'Dude, that's awesome.' And the next time I saw him he was 10 pounds lighter." Tierney never saw Loughner smoke marijuana again, and he was surprised at media reports that Loughner had been rejected from the military in 2009 for failing a drug test: "He was clean, clean. I saw him after that continuously. He would not do it."

After Loughner apparently gave up drugs and booze, "his theories got worse," Tierney says. "After he quit, he was just off the wall." And Loughner started to drift away from his group of friends about a year ago. By early 2010, dreaming had become Loughner's "waking life, his reality," Tierney says. "He sort of drifted off, didn't really care about hanging out with friends. He'd be sleeping a lot." Loughner's alternate reality was attractive, Tierney says. "He figured out he could fly." Loughner, according to Tierney, told his friends, "I'm so into it because I can create things and fly. I'm everything I'm not in this world.""""

I do not listen to rush l. I am at work and have no access to AM radio within the walls of this office. But why do I even try to explain my opinion with you after you attack my post. I was and is rude and a bunch of vitriol regardless of what side we play from it is very interesting that since my opinion does = ours you go off.

BTW it is a fact that this guys fellow classmates viewed him as a pot smoker.

NO SIDE LEFT OR RIGHT made him do this. HE IS MENTALLY challenged! Attack me again so I can have more fun.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

In the Soviet union they reffered to all Western governments as national socialist governments.

In middle ages europe anyone who doubted even a part of the Catholic doctrine was called a heretic and killed.

To many neo nazi groups, any non believer is an "agent of the Jewish press"

No surprise to see redtrevisio join this list.

How could someone possibly have a different opinion from redtrevisio unless they woke up to fox news in the morning, listened to a little rush limbaugh in the afternoon and sang a little "Es zittern die morschen Knochen" before bedtime (that latest one is not in anyway related to the US or the US tea party or the US republican party so its unlikely redtrevisio has ever heard of it)

I have payed little attention to this latest assasination, and have no idea who or what was behind it. Redtrevisio says Rush Limbaugh told him to do it. Glen says the guy was not sent by any political group.

So even if Glen is wrong does redtrevisio try to explain his point of view or argue something.

No

"Heretic!!!!" cries redtrevisio. "He must get all his information from fox news". " I have no proof but lets burn him anyway"

That is why some will never be able to communicate in a political forum with others. They have views that allow no middle.

 

[redtreviso]

That is why some will never be able to communicate in a political forum with others. They have views that allow no middle.

That is why some will never be able to communicate in a political forum with others. They have views that allow no middle.

This Jared nutcase is exactly what ALL the Limbaugh Beck Hannity Palin bunch hope hear their (kill shoot defeat enemy traitor)dog whistle. It could have been an untraceable bullet from a mile away but there is still a woman, a target, a jewish woman, a democratic woman, a member of congress, an astronaut's wife laying in a hospital with her skull removed as to preserve her life. Rush and all his wannabees are happy they have succeeded. They can just say "who me? it was just some crazy pothead" he he" and thank people like you for carrying on their message, their excuse.

 

[rhubroma]

Ok.

Whats that got to do with accusing anyone who offers a different opinion of watching fox news?

So the guy who killed the woman probably was influenced by right wingers and it would be nice to discredit them. My post wasnt about that. It was a responce to a certain poster immediately accusing Glen of watching too much fox news, the second a counter opinion is posted.

Hitch, come on dude. Just look at the photo. He certainly wasn't part of the Red Brigade!

In certain cases a picture is truly worth a thousand words. I hope for this, however, that doesn't make me norrow-minded for stating it. I try to maintian some sense of the ridiculous (and ironic), you know, otherwise we either become stupid...or hypocritical.

 

[Anonymous]

if you pay attention to the mass media here in the US, then you know that this guy was pushed over the edge, by hate mongers at Fox News and others.
Rush Limbaugh is not on Fox. Arizona is an over the top gun toting state.
he could have gone anywhere and shot up the place. he did not. he went
to a Federal Government gathering and did. Gifford was his first target.

Actually, this had nothing to do with politics or marijuana. This was the result of mental illness. There is no indication that he had a coherent political philosophy, and it appears that he intended to kill himself as part of this, and was unable to do so because his weapon malfunctioned or maybe because he chickened out. There is absolutely no indication he had any more targets.

I think everyone discussing this should watch Jon Stewart's response and ask yourself if exploiting this for political purposes is appropriate. Yes, the political discourse in the US is overly caustic at this point, but that had nothing to do with this. Sarah Palin had nothing to do with this. This was mental illness looking for a way to express itself.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

This Jared nutcase is exactly what ALL the Limbaugh Beck Hannity Palin bunch hope hear their (kill shoot defeat enemy traitor)dog whistle. It could have been an untraceable bullet from a mile away but there is still a woman, a target, a jewish woman, a democratic woman, a member of congress, an astronaut's wife laying in a hospital with her skull removed as to preserve her life. Rush and all his wannabees are happy they have succeeded. They can just say "who me? it was just some crazy pothead" he he" and thank people like you for carrying on their message, their excuse.

Why am I carrying their message? I do not know what their message is. Maybe the hippie lettuce had nothing to do with his mental illness; it may have made him better in some situations.
HE is Crazy that is not in doubt.
Just because I do not think he is carrying some political message makes some people lose their minds and go off on, and attack other opinions on a message board.

 

[Anonymous]

This Jared nutcase is exactly what ALL the Limbaugh Beck Hannity Palin bunch hope hear their (kill shoot defeat enemy traitor)dog whistle. It could have been an untraceable bullet from a mile away but there is still a woman, a target, a jewish woman, a democratic woman, a member of congress, an astronaut's wife laying in a hospital with her skull removed as to preserve her life. Rush and all his wannabees are happy they have succeeded. They can just say "who me? it was just some crazy pothead" he he" and thank people like you for carrying on their message, their excuse.

Hmmm, you'd think with 20+ years on the air and 20+ million folks tuning in a week Rush would have been able to convince more of his "followers" to do what Jared did. I guess we can all agree then that Rush must be a monumental failure.

Since you are so level-headed and fair perhaps you'll go ahead and explain this from the cooler heads on the left;

http://www.examiner.com/post-partisan-in-national/liberal-website-daily-kos-put-bullseye-on-dead-to-me-giffords

As TFF stated, this was mental illness looking to express itself. Only the hyper-partisan will see it any other way.

 

[redtreviso]

Why am I carrying their message? I do not know what their message is. Maybe the hippie lettuce had nothing to do with his mental illness; it may have made him better in some situations.
HE is Crazy that is not in doubt.
Just because I do not think he is carrying some political message makes some people lose their minds and go off on, and attack other opinions on a message board.

The "hippie lettuce" is just an excuse theme being firehosed by the right to say Loughner did not speak for them.. I understand more than perfectly that your neighbors like mine here in ArlingFun would sum up the issue so easily with whatever Rush and Fox say. If you just happen to share that view because it is popular I understand.

 

[redtreviso]

Hmmm, you'd think with 20+ years on the air and 20+ million folks tuning in a week Rush would have been able to convince more of his "followers" to do what Jared did. I guess we can all agree then that Rush must be a monumental failure.

Could you even come closer to quoting Rush directly from yesterdays show?
"folks"???? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

What a tool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub_klx9pDCI

 

[Anonymous]

Could you even come closer to quoting Rush directly from yesterdays show?
"folks"???? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

What a tool

Sorry to disappoint. I actually work during the day.

Is "tool" the best you've got? ha, ha, ha?

Care to explain the link I posted? Of course not. Like kryptonite to Superman.

Douchebag on parade. Carry on...

 

[redtreviso]

Sorry to disappoint. I actually work during the day.

Is "tool" the best you've got? ha, ha, ha?

Care to explain the link I posted? Of course not. Like kryptonite to Superman.

Douchebag on parade. Carry on...

Not working enough to miss Rush obviously

Yea tool..Can't think for yourself...
Explain your link??? OK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLNCoA436tU

Crazy or Conservative? or just interchangeable
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joan_walsh/politics/2009/08/12/william_kostric

 

[The Hitch]

If you were paying attention....or paying attention to something besides the right wing gas bags "

I critiscise you for cheaply and baselessly accusing others of getting all their information from the American right and your responce is (as always) to say that i get all my information is from the American right. Are you thick or something

Do you not know any other responce?

Do you not understand the concept of people being capable of forming opinions for themselves?

I know its a far right talking point in America to say that democrats are for totalitrianism, and against free speech.

But with you they might actually have a point.

You accuse anyone who shows the slightest deviation from your "truth" of being part of the liberal zionist conspiracy. Woops sorry thats the rush limbaugh fox news nazi conspiracy.

I do often confuse "right" and "left" wing nutbags.

To me they all sound the same.

 

[rhubroma]

Actually, this had nothing to do with politics or marijuana. This was the result of mental illness. There is no indication that he had a coherent political philosophy, and it appears that he intended to kill himself as part of this, and was unable to do so because his weapon malfunctioned or maybe because he chickened out. There is absolutely no indication he had any more targets.

I think everyone discussing this should watch Jon Stewart's response and ask yourself if exploiting this for political purposes is appropriate. Yes, the political discourse in the US is overly caustic at this point, but that had nothing to do with this. Sarah Palin had nothing to do with this. This was mental illness looking for a way to express itself.

Of course what such an analysis fails to recognize, which is the most obvious thing, is that the target in question happened to be a politician, which is no small piece of data. Thus a political motive has per force of nature come into the equation. Whether the apologists like it or not, or even think so.

Had it been an economist we would all be seeking to understand the economic reason at its basis, or a priest, the religious motives behind the act. As it is, despite all the idiotic mental gymnastics coming out of the American press to seek answers were none are to be found (or worse, evade one's political responsibility - which would appear to demonstrate just how either cynical or out of touch with reality a certain component of the US has become) politics comes every bit into question.

Sure he may be a rather sick mental case and sure his political discernment may be somewhat lower than that of an amoeba, however, it seems all to easy to let the right-wing off the hook so easily by chalking it all up to mere lunacy.

The reality is that the wackos of far-right America come in multivariate forms. Some are driven by religious obscurantism, others by patriotic paranoia, still others fall into that category of banal hatred and ignorance that, unfortunately, a bona fide segment of the right-wing establishment has been promoting, within an accepted media sphere (which is itself reprehensible), under the guise of a reactionary political movement: the Teaparty that has adopted as its showcase set-piece that most refined intellect of Sarah Palin.

The actions of a deranged and pathetic neo-fascist, who probably hates Jews and loves guns more than anyone else, is simply the disgusting fruit of a political class in America that, especially since the neocon insurgence and then the Bush Jr. years, has been pulled ever more forcibly by those extreme elements within it toward an outward incarnation of its most violent and reactionary tendencies.

I would hope that this would be a call for the rest of the right-wing to take a serious look at itself in the mirror, or at least make a strong stand now against those extreme elements within it and realize that even the hostile voices of so called patriotic teapartyers are representative of an anti-social climate and an intolerance that is a real threat to the nation's civility.

But this isn't happening. To the contrary, the republicans are by in large denouncing the so called vile opportunism of the opposition.

Call it as you like. But the fact is that the guy was a right-wing radical anyway one wishes to put it. That he had no "coherent" political philosophy would only support the indictment against him. For when did such folks ever have a political philosophy that wasn't about something more than racial purity, xenophobic zealousness and saving the nation from imminent moral collapse?

If anything the political nature of the crime demonstrates the disaster that occurs when obscurantism, populism, free access to guns and a total loss of any sense of the ridiculous has for a nation that can't seem to get away form a citizens' militia and Far West mentality.

 

[The Hitch]

target in question happened to be a politician. Thus a political motive has per force of nature come into the equation. Whether the apologists like it or not, or even think so.

This is what i thought too. I mean like i said i havent read or watched anything about this event. i only recently heard 6 people died as all the initial headlines here just said it was a congresswoman.

But TFF, what reason would you give for the guy firing on a politician if there was no political motive? Coincidence? Did he simply want to shoot someone in power?

 

[Anonymous]

Of course what such an analysis fails to recognize, which is the most obvious thing, is that the target in question happened to be a politician. Thus a political motive has per force of nature come into the equation. Whether the apologists like it or not, or even think so.

Had it been an economist we would all be seeking to understand the economic reason at its basis, or a priest, the religious motives behind the act. As it is, despite all the idiotic mental gymnastics coming out of the American press to seek answers were none are to be found (or worse, evade one's political responsibility - which would appear to demonstrate just how either cynical or out of touch with reality a certain component of the US has become) politics comes every bit into question.

Sure he may be a rather sick mental case and sure his political discernment may be somewhat lower than that of an amoeba, however, it seems all to easy to let the right-wing off the hook so easily by chalking it all up to mere lunacy.

The reality is that the wackos of far-right America come in multivariate forms. Some are driven by religious obscurantism, others by patriotic paranoia, still others fall into that category of banal hatred and ignorance that, unfortunately, a bona fide segment of the right-wing establishment has been promoting, within an accepted media sphere (which is itself reprehensible), under the guise of a reactionary political movement: the Teaparty that has adopted as its showcase set-piece that most refined intellect of Sarah Palin.

The actions of a deranged and pathetic neo-fascist, who probably hates Jews and loves guns more than anyone else, is simply the disgusting fruit of a political class in America that, since the Bush Jr. years, has been pulled ever more forcibly by those extreme elements within it toward an outward incarnation of its most violent and reactionary tendencies.

I would hope that this would be a call for the rest of the right-wing to take a serious look at itself in the mirror, or at least make a strong stand now against those extreme elements within it and realize that even the so called patriotic teapartyers within it are a real threat to the nation's civility.

But this isn't happening. To the contrary, the republicans are by in large denouncing the so called vile opportunism of the opposition.

Call it as you like. But the fact is that the guy was a right-wing radical anyway one wishes to put it. That he had no "coherent" political philosophy would only support the indictment against him. For when did such folks ever have a political philosophy that wasn't about something more than racial purity, xenophobic zealousness and saving the nation from imminent moral collapse?

If anything the political nature of the crime demonstrates the disaster that occurs when obscurantism, populism, free access to guns and a total loss of any sense of the ridiculous has for a nation that can't seem to get away form a citizens' militia and Far West mentality.

You are quoting sources regarding his association with a right wing hate group that have been UNSUBSTANTIATED. Have you actually watched his youtube video? You do realize that the guy ranted on and on about how people didn't understand grammar and that words have meaning? You do know that the shooter had a prior interaction with the congresswoman rambling about things other than her political stances?

My initial reaction was to blame it on right wing rhetoric. The fact is, that was simply wrong. I understand why I felt that way. I constantly hear how I am "un-American" and am "out to destroy America" because I believe in a mixed economic system in which the government becomes more involved in the economy when there is a downturn. The reality however is that this has nothing to do with that, and contrary to what those who are pushing this as a political fight believe, this will only harm their message in the long run.

I have worked with mentally ill patients and the homeless. I have personally heard the ramblings, and suffice to say that you cannot categorize them easily. This young man is very mentally ill. His brain chemistry is the problem, not who he listened to.

None of that is to say that the political rhetoric in the US is not dangerous. It is, and I believe that someone could be tweaked enough by it to enact violence. That is not what happened here however. Blaming Sarah Palin and Rush is political hackery at the expense of 6 dead people and 14 wounded. Do you really want to stand on the bodies of dead people to make a point that has nothing to do with the person who killed them? Because that is what you are doing. You have a legitimate point regarding the political discourse in the US. However, ironically, you are merely adding to that which you despise by using this as the impetus of your rant.

 

[rhubroma]

This is what i thought too. I mean like i said i havent read or watched anything about this event. i only recently heard 6 people died as all the initial headlines here just said it was a congresswoman.

But TFF, what reason would you give for the guy firing on a politician if there was no political motive? Coincidence? Did he simply want to shoot someone in power?

I think the body politic in America has been playing too long the centrist and "politically correct" game, in collusion with its "civilized" mass media.

So much so that whatsoever appears to be completely obvious to the rest of the watching world, is of the most recondite and inexplicable nature back in the Homeland.

That's because the American politicians don't want to take any responsibility the awful example they provide, for which baseness and egocentricity reigns supreme, to a largely ignorant and unconcerned public.

Then the American people themselves have been so brainwashed on the prevailing political situation, on the right and left, and on the false idea that extremism is the problem of other nations and cultures so that they are always susceptible to the mystifying explanations of a "civil" and thoroughly spineless journalism.

As if the uncomfortable reality of fascist political exponents living within the society and political institutions can't be readily admitted to either socially or politically, because that would upset the delicate fable of a democracy uninfluenced by ideology.

Well, like it or not, in America ideology (or, if you like, neo-ideology) has arrived.

 

[Anonymous]

This is what i thought too. I mean like i said i havent read or watched anything about this event. i only recently heard 6 people died as all the initial headlines here just said it was a congresswoman.

But TFF, what reason would you give for the guy firing on a politician if there was no political motive? Coincidence? Did he simply want to shoot someone in power?

I should have been more clear. He had a "political motive" only his "politics" are not coherent and similar to any recognized persuasion. The manner in which it is being used here is that he tied his "political" thought to some recognized political thought. He didn't. He rants on and on about people not understanding words. He even wrote the congresswoman and asked her if she believed words had meaning. That was his question. He appears to have been obsessed with her and whether or not words have meaning more than anything. He mentions the Constitution in his video, but it is COMPLETELY UNCLEAR exactly what he means. Have you ever listened to the rantings of an insane person? I have innumerable times, and I can tell you that the process of their thought is not linear and tied to reality. If you read the guys words on his youtube video, you will see a man making connections that exist only in his mind, and which are not rooted in an logical thought pattern or recognized political philosophy.

As I said, I believe that some of the rhetoric on the right is very dangerous. I don't see mainstream Democrats making the same types of statements that some mainstream Republicans make. Similar rhetoric on the left comes from the fringe. That same type of rhetoric on the right comes from prominent, national politicians and media personalities. I will not deny that ever. However that has nothing to do with this shooting. That guy is insane, and has developed a theory of life and politics that is not rooted in rational thought. It isn't tied to reality. It is tied to the short circuited brain chemistry of a mentally ill young man.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the body politic in America has been playing too long the centrist and "politically correct" game, in collusion with its "civilized" mass media.

So much so that whatsoever appears to be completely obvious to the rest of the watching world, is of the most recondite and inexplicable nature back in the Homeland.

That's because the American politicians don't want to take any responsibility the awful example they provide, for which baseness and egocentricity reigns supreme, to a largely ignorant and unconcerned public.

Then the American people themselves have been so brainwashed on the prevailing political situation, on the right and left, and on the false idea that extremism is the problem of other nations and cultures so that they are always susceptible to the mystifying explanations of a "civil" and thoroughly spineless journalism.

As if the uncomfortable reality of fascist political exponents living within the society and political institutions can't be readily admitted to either socially or politically, because that would upset the delicate fable of a democracy uninfluenced by ideology.

Well, like it or not, in America ideology (or, if you like, neo-ideology) has arrived.

Yea, we are all "brainwashed" automatons, incapable of genuine critical thought. Dear goodness the view from your mountain top must be spectacular.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the body politic in America has been playing too long the centrist and "politically correct" game, in collusion with its "civilized" mass media.

So much so that whatsoever appears to be completely obvious to the rest of the watching world, is of the most recondite and inexplicable nature back in the Homeland.

That's because the American politicians don't want to take any responsibility the awful example they provide, for which baseness and egocentricity reigns supreme, to a largely ignorant and unconcerned public.

Then the American people themselves have been so brainwashed on the prevailing political situation, on the right and left, and on the false idea that extremism is the problem of other nations and cultures so that they are always susceptible to the mystifying explanations of a "civil" and thoroughly spineless journalism.

As if the uncomfortable reality of fascist political exponents living within the society and political institutions can't be readily admitted to either socially or politically, because that would upset the delicate fable of a democracy uninfluenced by ideology.

Well, like it or not, in America ideology (or, if you like, neo-ideology) has arrived.

As I said, the political rhetoric of the right is much too caustic, and can be dangerous.

That has nothing to do with this. If your keen insight into this, observed form the safety of Italy, has given you the precise knowledge necessary to discern the motives of the insane, maybe you need to switch professions because you sir should judge the masses. You know nothing of what has happened, yet you appear to believe you have tied it all up, put it in the correct box, and will now do everyone the favor of telling them precisely what you know. To accuse others of egocentricity with such a sweeping blovatious rant is more irony than I can take right now.

 

[rhubroma]

You are quoting sources regarding his association with a right wing hate group that have been UNSUBSTANTIATED. Have you actually watched his youtube video? You do realize that the guy ranted on and on about how people didn't understand grammar and that words have meaning? You do know that the shooter had a prior interaction with the congresswoman rambling about things other than her political stances?

My initial reaction was to blame it on right wing rhetoric. The fact is, that was simply wrong. I understand why I felt that way. I constantly hear how I am "un-American" and am "out to destroy America" because I believe in a mixed economic system in which the government becomes more involved in the economy when there is a downturn. The reality however is that this has nothing to do with that, and contrary to what those who are pushing this as a political fight believe, this will only harm their message in the long run.

I have worked with mentally ill patients and the homeless. I have personally heard the ramblings, and suffice to say that you cannot categorize them easily. This young man is very mentally ill. His brain chemistry is the problem, not who he listened to.

None of that is to say that the political rhetoric in the US is not dangerous. It is, and I believe that someone could be tweaked enough by it to enact violence. That is not what happened here however. Blaming Sarah Palin and Rush is political hackery at the expense of 6 dead people and 14 wounded. Do you really want to stand on the bodies of dead people to make a point that has nothing to do with the person who killed them? Because that is what you are doing. You have a legitimate point regarding the political discourse in the US. However, ironically, you are merely adding to that which you despise by using this as the impetus of your rant.

TFF, my only response, other than what I have stated already about the obvious political target in question, was that the guy, like Timothy McVeigh, like the Montana-ers who talk about a popular revolt against the Federal Government with guns to take back the Nation, like the religious bigots who murder abortion doctors Bible in hand, like the persistence of a unobstructed Neo-Nazi party, like the fascist and terrorist ideology behind the young assassins of Columbine and within the scope of a thoroughly reactionary and cultureless far-right society that finds its most vocal spokesmen in Rush Limbaugh and the Teapartyers: this case is smacked with a political agenda.

It doesn't matter whether Rush or Sarah "ordered" the strike or not (of course they did not), because it simply has to do with various degrees of abhorrent cultivated world-views that pertain to a certain political class. And that political class should be held responsible for what it has been inseminating throughout the most ill-informed and backward segments of the American population. And it matters even less that this guy had nothing, other than pure myopic hatred, governing his motives, because such inane directives themselves fall within the praxis of a rather underdeveloped political culture.

Thirty years of Rush Limbaugh may not make him personally responsible for the Arizona murders, for goodness sake. However preaching a message of hatred, intolerance and cultural backwardness coming out of the right-wing for the past thirty years means that every so often one is having to deal with the uncomfortable and tragic reality of a Oklahoma City or a Columbine or what we recently have witnessed in Arizona.

And I have read numerous quotes and responses in the dailies. What I have found particularly vile and angering is some political exponent of the right-wing calling for the head of the local sheriff, who rightly pointed out that the murder's actions are the fruit of a sinister obscurantism for which the populist right-wing in America is the direct culprit.

But instead of taking recourse to introspection, they have gone heinously on the offensive to denounce anyone but themselves.

 

[Anonymous]

TFF, my only response, other than what I have stated already about the obvious political target in question, was that the guy, like Timothy McVeigh, like the Montana-ers who talk about a popular revolt against the Federal Government with guns to take back the Nation, like the religious bigots who murder abortion doctors while Bible in hand, like the persistence of a unobstructed Neo-Nazi party, like the fascist and terrorist ideology behind the young assassins of Columbine and within the scope of a thoroughly reactionary and cultureless far-right society that finds its most vocal spokesmen in Rush Limbaugh and the Teapartyers: this case is smacked with a political agenda.

It doesn't matter whether Rush or Sarah "ordered" the strike or not, because it have simply has to do with various degrees of cultivated world-views that pertain to a certain political class. And that political class should be held responsible for what it has been inseminating throughout the most ill-informed and backward segments of the American population.

Thirty years of Rush Limbaugh may not make him personally responsible for the Arizona murders, for goodness sake. However preaching a message of hatred, intolerance and cultural backwardness coming out of the right-wing for the past thirty years means that every so often one is having to deal with the uncomfortable and tragic reality of a Oklahoma City or a Columbine or what we recently have witnessed in Arizona.

And I have read numerous quotes and responses in the dailies. What I have found particularly vile and angering is some political exponent of the right-wing calling for the head of the local sheriff, who rightly pointed out that the murder's actions are the fruit of a sinister obscurantism for which the populist right-wing in America is the direct culprit.

But instead of taking recourse to introspection, they have gone heinously on the offensive to denounce anyone but themselves.

I do not disagree with that in the slightest. My only point is that discussion, and the discussion of this particular incident are two distinct conversations. I am glad that there is conversation regarding the political rhetoric in the US that stems from this incident, because it is a conversation that needs to be made. I hope it can be made without resorting to denouncing caustic rhetoric with caustic rhetoric because that will not solve the problem. I see people from the right and left searching for the moral high ground in this, when what I am doing is looking at my discourse. If I am caustic and hateful (which I certainly have been) regarding the caustic and hateful rhetoric of those whom I oppose, how will that ever solve anything? I guess, being spiritually minded, I always come back to Gandhi on such things. I actually believe that confrontational pacifism is the only sane option in existence. I cannot therefore throw the anger and hatred I feel at my opposition and expect anything will change.

I understand now more of the point you are trying to make. I posted two posts that I would not have had I read this first. Maybe I need to not jump so quickly in the future.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

The "hippie lettuce" is just an excuse theme being firehosed by the right to say Loughner did not speak for them.. I understand more than perfectly that your neighbors like mine here in ArlingFun would sum up the issue so easily with whatever Rush and Fox say. If you just happen to share that view because it is popular I understand.

I am sorry if I offended you with the use of the term Hippie Lettuce. I admit that I do not listen to much talk radio and rarely see Fox News. I am not sure they are using the term Hippie Lettuce, in fact I doubt it.

You spend more time listening to them than me (in my opinion) because you know their talking points etc.

I am of the opinion that this guy was crazy / mentally ill. He had asked the congresswoman a question either a year or two before which he felt slighted or was not acceptable to him. This all happen at the college where he was studying. After that his classmates / friends said he went off the deep end. I am very sorry that my opinion offends your senses.

 

[Anonymous]

I am sorry if I offended you with the use of the term Hippie Lettuce. I admit that I do not listen to much talk radio and rarely see Fox News. I am not sure they are using the term Hippie Lettuce, in fact I doubt it.

You spend more time listening to them than me (in my opinion) because you know their talking points etc.

I am of the opinion that this guy was crazy / mentally ill. He had asked the congresswoman a question either a year or two before which he felt slighted or was not acceptable to him. This all happen at the college where he was studying. After that his classmates / friends said he went off the deep end. I am very sorry that my opinion offends your senses.

And the question he asked regarded whether she believed words had meaning. I read his youtube rant, and he appeared to believe that the government (CIA, etc) manipulated the meanings of words in order to control the population. When you read it, it becomes clear that he is speaking a narrative that exists only in his mind. His view of manipulation of language, and the actual manipulation of language that does in fact occur in political discourse are two different things. His is born of psychotic paranoia, and the character of it is clearly tied to a larger narrative that exists only in his mind.

Please note that he is anti-religious and his favorite film is one of a burning American flag. He rants about the constitution, but that appears tied to his belief that the manipulation of words brainwashed the great majority of the population, who he believes are illiterate. And by illiterate, he appears to mean that most people do not understand the meaning of words that he understands. He seems to live in a parallel universe where he is the only one who sees reality, and the rest of us have been fooled into something he has not. This is a VERY common narrative with psychotic people, and is based in faulty brain chemistry.

 

[The Hitch]

Please note that he is anti-religious and his favorite film is one of a burning American flag.

If this is true then that would be all she wrote for the argument that Rush Limbaugh or any Tea party member was behind this.

 

[redtreviso]

If this is true then that would be all she wrote for the argument that Rush Limbaugh or any Tea party member was behind this.

Please note that one of his favorite books is "we the living" by Ayn Rand..
Maybe Alan Greenspan and Pam Geller will go visit him on death row.