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Anonymous

Guest
Thoughtforfood said:
They are not having the "sh!t" taxed out of them. Not even CLOSE based on historical data. They have it better now than ever. What they are doing is concentrating the wealth in fewer and fewer hands, and you want to kiss their a$$ and beg them for scraps. Fine, you have that option.

The wealthy are responsible for out current lot. No question about it. They are also responsible for shifting policy so in their favor that they are the only ones not suffering the consequences. And you want to continue to hand them everything they ask. Again, you have that option.

But you are right, social justice will never happen so long as there are people willing to bend over and ask to be violated. For sure, you're right about that.
They are not having the "sh!t" taxed out of them. Not even CLOSE based on historical data.
I didn't say they were. I was responding to this;

Originally Posted by Alpe d'Huez View Post
Meanwhile AP is reporting that the super rich had their taxes drop dramatically in the last couple of decades, to where they now pay 17%. Back in 1992 they were paying 26%. You go further back than that, and it's even higher. Back in 1976 the capital gains tax was 48%, now it's 15%.

So, where's the economic boom? If these people are the "job creators" as Bush called them, were are all the jobs?
But you are right, social justice will never happen so long as there are people willing to bend over and ask to be violated. For sure, you're right about that
So, people never move up economically then? The people with good ideas do pretty well. So do some criminals. The latter bugs me as much as it bugs you.

Social justice can never happen. It would be like asking you to stop enjoying the beauty of a woman. Some people will achieve, some won't and some will cheat.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
I didn't say they were. I was responding to this;





So, people never move up economically then? The people with good ideas do pretty well. So do some criminals. The latter bugs me as much as it bugs you.

Social justice can never happen. It would be like asking you to stop enjoying the beauty of a woman. Some people will achieve, some won't and some will cheat.
""It turns out, you can trace much of this thinking back to Ayn Rand, a popular cult-philosopher who plays Charlie to the American right-wing’s Manson Family. Read on and you’ll see why.

One reason why most countries don’t find the time to embrace her thinking is that Ayn Rand is a textbook sociopath. Literally a sociopath: Ayn Rand, in her notebooks, worshiped a notorious serial murderer-dismemberer, and used this killer as an early model for the type of “ideal man” that Rand promoted in her more famous books — ideas which were later picked up on and put into play by major right-wing figures of the past half decade, including the key architects of America’s most recent economic catastrophe — former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan and SEC Commissioner Chris Cox — along with other notable right-wing Republicans such as Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, Rush Limbaugh, and South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford.
"""

http://exiledonline.com/atlas-shrieked-why-ayn-rands-right-wing-followers-are-scarier-than-the-manson-family-and-the-gruesome-story-of-the-serial-killer-who-stole-ayn-rands-heart/
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Wow I never saw that before, I knew I didn't like that bitch!
I can almost hear Scott's rebuttal now. "Oh yeah, well Teddy Kennedy murdered Mary Jo Kopchne."
 
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Anonymous

Guest
redtreviso said:
""It turns out, you can trace much of this thinking back to Ayn Rand, a popular cult-philosopher who plays Charlie to the American right-wing’s Manson Family. Read on and you’ll see why.

One reason why most countries don’t find the time to embrace her thinking is that Ayn Rand is a textbook sociopath. Literally a sociopath: Ayn Rand, in her notebooks, worshiped a notorious serial murderer-dismemberer, and used this killer as an early model for the type of “ideal man” that Rand promoted in her more famous books — ideas which were later picked up on and put into play by major right-wing figures of the past half decade, including the key architects of America’s most recent economic catastrophe — former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan and SEC Commissioner Chris Cox — along with other notable right-wing Republicans such as Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, Rush Limbaugh, and South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford.
"""

http://exiledonline.com/atlas-shrieked-why-ayn-rands-right-wing-followers-are-scarier-than-the-manson-family-and-the-gruesome-story-of-the-serial-killer-who-stole-ayn-rands-heart/
Wow. That's right out of Rules for Radicals.

Typical and boring.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Hugh Januss said:
Wow I never saw that before, I knew I didn't like that bitch!
I can almost hear Scott's rebuttal now. "Oh yeah, well Teddy Kennedy murdered Mary Jo Kopchne."
But of course, HJ. One has to demonize those they disagree with (see redtreviso and rhubroma) otherwise, it is you who may be wrong.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
But of course, HJ. One has to demonize those they disagree with (see redtreviso and rhubroma) otherwise, it is you who may be wrong.
You don't need to be demonized, you seem to celebrate it as your calling. Instead of any attempt at intelligent conversation your kind while exclusively amongst their peers says sh like.."I BELIEVE ! YOU GIVE A MAN A FISH AND IT FEEDS HIM FOR A DAY , TEACH HIM TO FISH--------------" then they cj each other about how profound and exceptional they are. (they =Your kind)
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Scott SoCal said:
When, in human history, has this not been true?

The real difference is, in former times, people like you and me had exactly zero chance of obtaining anything like prosperity. So while you lump producers in very un-flattering light, I don't. Are there bad rich people? Of course, but when has this not been the case?
And when in the history of 20th century US history has making them pay for their indiscretions by higher tax rates (substantially higher I might ad) ever resulted in the dire pontifications you have regarding the ability to create business? And lets not argue the Great Depression again on the CATO-Heritage vs. Reality track. The problem inherent in that piece of propaganda is that there is not a single counter example of a major industrialized nation cutting taxes and spending during that time. So, I ask, upon what proof do you stand regarding your assertions? Because I hate to break it to you, but we have made it through tougher times with much higher tax rates and similar or higher amounts of unemployment...and higher spending as a percentage of GDP I might add.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Scott SoCal said:
I didn't say they were. I was responding to this;





So, people never move up economically then? The people with good ideas do pretty well. So do some criminals. The latter bugs me as much as it bugs you.

Social justice can never happen. It would be like asking you to stop enjoying the beauty of a woman. Some people will achieve, some won't and some will cheat.
Social justice happens all the time, just not as frequently as it could. It isn't an all or nothing thing. I realize this is a political discussion, and reality should never counter a good rant (trust me, I am frequently guilty), but the reality is that I want greater social justice in an imperfect system that will never be fully just...nor will it be fully corrupt. So stop with the black and white because it is not reflective of reality. It is reflective of talking points.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Hugh Januss said:
Just a hater, out to discredit the memory of someone who has done too much good for too many [white] people.
There, fixed that for you.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
redtreviso said:
You don't need to be demonized, you seem to celebrate it as your calling. Instead of any attempt at intelligent conversation your kind while exclusively amongst their peers says sh like.."I BELIEVE ! YOU GIVE A MAN A FISH AND IT FEEDS HIM FOR A DAY , TEACH HIM TO FISH--------------" then they cj each other about how profound and exceptional they are. (they =Your kind)
You know, the problem here is that you too seek either "on" or "off." Scott is a convenient target for you to take out all those things you so hate about your opposition, but never is there a recognition that he is just a man with an opinion walking in shoes that you have never worn. In my discussions with him, once we can get past the hyperbole and antagonism, he has valid points, and is not an autotomic (I totally made that word up) minion of the underworld.

You never seem to realize that hyperbole and rhetoric are tools, not reality. They are tools used by politicians and during political discussions to frame an issue to one's favor, but they do not encompass the totality of a person, nor their actual views.

My only suggestion here is that if YOU (or anyone for that matter) actually want substantive discussion, then YOU need to be the one to drop the pretext first. Waiting on the other guy to flinch is just a Mexican stand-off, and is positively NOT substantive discussion.

Just a thought.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
But of course, HJ. One has to demonize those they disagree with (see redtreviso and rhubroma) otherwise, it is you who may be wrong.
The thing is though there are people who qualify as demons, and other than murderers a large number of them seem to be drawn to controlling people for the accumulation of wealth.

Meanwhile BP is doing fine again, the fishing, tourism and related businesses in the Gulf, not so much. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_spill_bp_moving_on
 
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Anonymous

Guest
redtreviso said:
You don't need to be demonized, you seem to celebrate it as your calling. Instead of any attempt at intelligent conversation your kind while exclusively amongst their peers says sh like.."I BELIEVE ! YOU GIVE A MAN A FISH AND IT FEEDS HIM FOR A DAY , TEACH HIM TO FISH--------------" then they cj each other about how profound and exceptional they are. (they =Your kind)
My kind??? Your use of the language tells anyone all they need to know about you.
 
May 23, 2010
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Thoughtforfood said:
You know, the problem here is that you too seek either "on" or "off." Scott is a convenient target for you to take out all those things you so hate about your opposition, but never is there a recognition that he is just a man with an opinion walking in shoes that you have never worn. In my discussions with him, once we can get past the hyperbole and antagonism, he has valid points, and is not an autotomic (I totally made that word up) minion of the underworld.

You never seem to realize that hyperbole and rhetoric are tools, not reality. They are tools used by politicians and during political discussions to frame an issue to one's favor, but they do not encompass the totality of a person, nor their actual views.

My only suggestion here is that if YOU (or anyone for that matter) actually want substantive discussion, then YOU need to be the one to drop the pretext first. Waiting on the other guy to flinch is just a Mexican stand-off, and is positively NOT substantive discussion.

Just a thought.
The thing is...His "valid" points are just someone else's well oiled justification for the hateful agenda of the right wing. They can go on and on about how they are "fiscal conservatives" but just dig ever so slightly below the surface and they are just out to abuse the poor(or someone) to make themselves feel bigger. It is this way with almost any issue. Their detailed rhetoric is just a ruse to back up their simple ill advised ideas.
 
Meanwhile, officials in Louisiana are upset with BP abandoning and covering up the oil spill.

Various small businesses in the state of Georgia are also still hurting.

If the Tea Party had their way, this would all be considered unfortunate, and that these people would just have to deal with it. Actually, the TP/GOP would like to have companies like BP have to deal with even less regulation. They consider it to be hindering their business, and as their business grows, they'll pass on the savings to the consumer. If we just drill more, we'll have more oil, more profits. And if we can take over the rest of the Middle East with our military, we can have it all.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
My kind??? Your use of the language tells anyone all they need to know about you.
yup your kind..The people who could talk about civilized subjects who have comparatively few worries but tell N jokes and rejoice in other bigotry while thinking this makes them special..Your kind really don't want to hear about the Muur van Geraardsbergen Scott. but I am sure you are glad to be home...
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Meanwhile, officials in Louisiana are upset with BP abandoning and covering up the oil spill.

Various small businesses in the state of Georgia are also still hurting.

If the Tea Party had their way, this would all be considered unfortunate, and that these people would just have to deal with it. Actually, the TP/GOP would like to have companies like BP have to deal with even less regulation. They consider it to be hindering their business, and as their business grows, they'll pass on the savings to the consumer. If we just drill more, we'll have more oil, more profits. And if we can take over the rest of the Middle East with our military, we can have it all.
Shush, don't interrupt Scott and Red's penis measuring contest.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
You know, the problem here is that you too seek either "on" or "off." Scott is a convenient target for you to take out all those things you so hate about your opposition, but never is there a recognition that he is just a man with an opinion walking in shoes that you have never worn. In my discussions with him, once we can get past the hyperbole and antagonism, he has valid points, and is not an autotomic (I totally made that word up) minion of the underworld.

You never seem to realize that hyperbole and rhetoric are tools, not reality. They are tools used by politicians and during political discussions to frame an issue to one's favor, but they do not encompass the totality of a person, nor their actual views.

My only suggestion here is that if YOU (or anyone for that matter) actually want substantive discussion, then YOU need to be the one to drop the pretext first. Waiting on the other guy to flinch is just a Mexican stand-off, and is positively NOT substantive discussion.

Just a thought.
This was just demonstrated in the "debate" and compromise for the US budget. Both parties characterizing each other and their programs and braying about the Urgency to respond. Now all of the congressional flaks are...on a two week recess. Makes you want to give them a specific agenda, lock the doors of Congress with all of them inside and set fire to the outside of the building. No one leaves unless the job gets done.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Thoughtforfood said:
And when in the history of 20th century US history has making them pay for their indiscretions by higher tax rates (substantially higher I might ad) ever resulted in the dire pontifications you have regarding the ability to create business? And lets not argue the Great Depression again on the CATO-Heritage vs. Reality track. The problem inherent in that piece of propaganda is that there is not a single counter example of a major industrialized nation cutting taxes and spending during that time. So, I ask, upon what proof do you stand regarding your assertions? Because I hate to break it to you, but we have made it through tougher times with much higher tax rates and similar or higher amounts of unemployment...and higher spending as a percentage of GDP I might add.
Maybe I'm wrong, but when income tax rates were really high do you really think those creating wealth actually paid those rates? I think the tax code was (is) leveraged in every possible manner. The difference is there were more allowable deductions when rates were high and many of those deductions don't exist today.

The problem inherent in that piece of propaganda is that there is not a single counter example of a major industrialized nation cutting taxes and spending during that time.
I concede your point. Similarly, I'm not aware of any industrialized nation taxing and spending their way to prosperity.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Thoughtforfood said:
Social justice happens all the time, just not as frequently as it could. It isn't an all or nothing thing. I realize this is a political discussion, and reality should never counter a good rant (trust me, I am frequently guilty), but the reality is that I want greater social justice in an imperfect system that will never be fully just...nor will it be fully corrupt. So stop with the black and white because it is not reflective of reality. It is reflective of talking points.
I'm just saying the system will never be equal for everybody. I get your point.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
redtreviso said:
yup your kind..The people who could talk about civilized subjects who have comparatively few worries but tell N jokes and rejoice in other bigotry while thinking this makes them special..Your kind really don't want to hear about the Muur van Geraardsbergen Scott. but I am sure you are glad to be home...

Nope. Wish I was still there.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
Nope. Wish I was still there.
Lighten up scott..Go have dinner with friends and celebrate Tim McVeigh day or talk about Ayn Rand. Unlike those sissyazz cobblestones it is what republican dreams are made of.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
redtreviso said:
Lighten up scott..Go have dinner with friends and celebrate Tim McVeigh day or talk about Ayn Rand. Unlike those sissyazz cobblestones it is what republican dreams are made of.
You must have the impression that you've had some effect on me. No need to offer assistance Red.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
You must have the impression that you've had some effect on me. No need to offer assistance Red.
Well then let me rephrase ...Go out and get back to acceptable Republican behavior and celebrate Tim McVeigh day and profess your love and admiration for Ayn Rand, Strippers, Hookers and Pornography.. oh and beer...Ye HAW..,. Whisky Tango Republican Party!!!!!!!
 
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