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May 23, 2010
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copied from elsewhere, author withheld

""A message to all the anxious John Galts/producers from someone who was in the work force for a long time.

While you are trembling in your shoes in fear that the flotsam and jetsam of the nation will rise up and take away your wealth, you need to understand that the workers of this nation, and of the world, own a part of that wealth. You did not get where you are because you were such a exceptional specimen alone. Your initial idea found its time and a market but the realization of the idea required the participation of many others, from those to whom you sold shares to those who consume the product. Your facilities likely were built because whole communities of people gave you revenue breaks, built roads and other essential infrastructure, and provided a pool of skilled workers educated by the community. Your original idea was likely refined and further perfected by the combined knowledge and experience of those employees and undoubtedly is not the same formulation that propelled you into the market. Your consumers come from the community and beyond and are individuals who choose to buy your product or service and can just as easily decide not to. It is also likely that there are other John Galts out there who could easily step into your shoes and you would not be missed at all.

Bottom line is that the dynamic that is at play in this nation has nothing to do with your rugged individualism and everything to do with your responsibilities to the communities which gave you success. It has everything to do with respecting the humanity at the most basic level of those who work for you (either by providing labor or materials or services) or purchase from you. They are individuals as well and deserve the same considerations for health, personal security, and well being that you demand for yourselves. They deserve to be rewarded for their contributions in a manner which affords personal dignity and respect from you. These individuals as a community provide the foundation in which your base your claim to wealth. Beyond the money, these individuals are the nation's greatest wealth. You are just one individual who happened to be in the right place at the right time and there are millions of others willing to step in and take your place, some of them with a greater appreciation for the community from which they rose.
""
 
Scott SoCal said:
Uhhh.... Lessee.... um, no.



There's an even weaker form of agrumentation(???)....

Once again, you missed (intentionally??) my point, which was while Klink enjoys railing against the Right there are also very bad guys on the Left as well AND that most civilized people recognize this and condemn those that deserve it.

As far as your second point all I can say is... WTF are you babbling about??

The right wing didn't condition too well in the last Presidential election. Harry Reid is still in control over at the Senate so I guess the 'conditioning' didn't go that well there either.

Maybe the left wing is doing a better job of 'conditioning' their constituents? And you have the temerity to call me childish...
My dear Scott, but what you conveniently forget, is that the left doesn't exist in America.

Because it's all about money.
 
Jul 14, 2009
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redtreviso said:
copied from elsewhere, author withheld

""A message to all the anxious John Galts/producers from someone who was in the work force for a long time.

While you are trembling in your shoes in fear that the flotsam and jetsam of the nation will rise up and take away your wealth, you need to understand that the workers of this nation, and of the world, own a part of that wealth. You did not get where you are because you were such a exceptional specimen alone. Your initial idea found its time and a market but the realization of the idea required the participation of many others, from those to whom you sold shares to those who consume the product. Your facilities likely were built because whole communities of people gave you revenue breaks, built roads and other essential infrastructure, and provided a pool of skilled workers educated by the community. Your original idea was likely refined and further perfected by the combined knowledge and experience of those employees and undoubtedly is not the same formulation that propelled you into the market. Your consumers come from the community and beyond and are individuals who choose to buy your product or service and can just as easily decide not to. It is also likely that there are other John Galts out there who could easily step into your shoes and you would not be missed at all.

Bottom line is that the dynamic that is at play in this nation has nothing to do with your rugged individualism and everything to do with your responsibilities to the communities which gave you success. It has everything to do with respecting the humanity at the most basic level of those who work for you (either by providing labor or materials or services) or purchase from you. They are individuals as well and deserve the same considerations for health, personal security, and well being that you demand for yourselves. They deserve to be rewarded for their contributions in a manner which affords personal dignity and respect from you. These individuals as a community provide the foundation in which your base your claim to wealth. Beyond the money, these individuals are the nation's greatest wealth. You are just one individual who happened to be in the right place at the right time and there are millions of others willing to step in and take your place, some of them with a greater appreciation for the community from which they rose.
""
All the talk of community. humbug. Banks forced to open branches in poor communities. against their will. Jet engines fall off and you find that the feel good corp has moved the plane inspections and repairs from one community in the first world to the third, not to improve the community but the bottom line.
People are accumulating enormous wealth because of the disconnect from community not it's inclusion.
There is little worth in a ownership/labor relationship in the modern world. Stories about Africans resenting Chinese as the Chinese exploit everything. Americans feeling left out as our corps exploit the Chinese as offshore slaves. But there will always be a story like the employees making Tabasco where the company is the community, pretty few and far between.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
rhubroma said:
My dear Scott, but what you conveniently forget, is that the left doesn't exist in America.

Because it's all about money.

Well, make sure not to tell Klink. He'll freak out.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
redtreviso said:
copied from elsewhere, author withheld

""A message to all the anxious John Galts/producers from someone who was in the work force for a long time.

While you are trembling in your shoes in fear that the flotsam and jetsam of the nation will rise up and take away your wealth, you need to understand that the workers of this nation, and of the world, own a part of that wealth. You did not get where you are because you were such a exceptional specimen alone. Your initial idea found its time and a market but the realization of the idea required the participation of many others, from those to whom you sold shares to those who consume the product. Your facilities likely were built because whole communities of people gave you revenue breaks, built roads and other essential infrastructure, and provided a pool of skilled workers educated by the community. Your original idea was likely refined and further perfected by the combined knowledge and experience of those employees and undoubtedly is not the same formulation that propelled you into the market. Your consumers come from the community and beyond and are individuals who choose to buy your product or service and can just as easily decide not to. It is also likely that there are other John Galts out there who could easily step into your shoes and you would not be missed at all.

Bottom line is that the dynamic that is at play in this nation has nothing to do with your rugged individualism and everything to do with your responsibilities to the communities which gave you success. It has everything to do with respecting the humanity at the most basic level of those who work for you (either by providing labor or materials or services) or purchase from you. They are individuals as well and deserve the same considerations for health, personal security, and well being that you demand for yourselves. They deserve to be rewarded for their contributions in a manner which affords personal dignity and respect from you. These individuals as a community provide the foundation in which your base your claim to wealth. Beyond the money, these individuals are the nation's greatest wealth. You are just one individual who happened to be in the right place at the right time and there are millions of others willing to step in and take your place, some of them with a greater appreciation for the community from which they rose.
""
It sounds like the (author withheld) is bitter. I think I'll put in a Bwahaaaaaa right here.

Interesting the lack of recognition of having an ability to provide for ones self being employed and paid for a job because the John Galts of the world had a good idea. As if every person who created wealth has done so on the backs of others.:rolleyes:

Oh, I forget my place. Business exists to provide jobs. :rolleyes:

I'm guessing many in this country would love to be able to go back to work, no?

They are individuals as well and deserve the same considerations for health, personal security, and well being that you demand for yourselves.
A strawman if there ever was one.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
It sounds like the (author withheld) is bitter. I think I'll put in a Bwahaaaaaa right here.

Interesting the lack of recognition of having an ability to provide for ones self being employed and paid for a job because the John Galts of the world had a good idea. As if every person who created wealth has done so on the backs of others.:rolleyes:

Oh, I forget my place. Business exists to provide jobs. :rolleyes:

I'm guessing many in this country would love to be able to go back to work, no?



A strawman if there ever was one.
said the 7yr old in the motocross outfit.

"thinks he hit a triple"
 
May 23, 2010
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fatandfast said:
All the talk of community. humbug. Banks forced to open branches in poor communities. against their will. Jet engines fall off and you find that the feel good corp has moved the plane inspections and repairs from one community in the first world to the third, not to improve the community but the bottom line.
People are accumulating enormous wealth because of the disconnect from community not it's inclusion.
There is little worth in a ownership/labor relationship in the modern world. Stories about Africans resenting Chinese as the Chinese exploit everything. Americans feeling left out as our corps exploit the Chinese as offshore slaves. But there will always be a story like the employees making Tabasco where the company is the community, pretty few and far between.
Funny you should mention tabasco..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/23/olbermann-small-business_n_736418.html
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
It sounds like the (author withheld) is bitter. I think I'll put in a Bwahaaaaaa right here.
Sounds to me like he is 100% right.
Interesting the lack of recognition of having an ability to provide for ones self being employed and paid for a job because the John Galts of the world had a good idea. As if every person who created wealth has done so on the backs of others.:rolleyes:
You get one thing right and then mess it up anyway with the roll eyes dohicky
Oh, I forget my place. Business exists to provide jobs. :rolleyes:
Oh no business only exists to make the Masters of the Universe obscenely wealthy. And they are so clever that they could do it in a vacuum.
I'm guessing many in this country would love to be able to go back to work, no?
You are sooo smart.


A strawman if there ever was one.
.....................
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hugh Januss said:
.....................

I like the Red. Nice touch.

So people start business to provide jobs. Check.

Anyone with wealth exploited someone else. Check.

The unemployed should not care at all about the health of private enterprise. Check.

I'm learning a lot today.
 
May 13, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion.

Vouchers are tax dollars that parents are granted (typically inner city) allowing them options (Charter schools for example).

How is this being against choice? Without this type of arrangement you have inner city parents who have no choice where their kids go to school. Even a cursory look gives a basic explanation;



I'm not suggesting that vouchers are necessarily the solution. But they certainly provide choice for parents and there is information out there suggesting (typically in the inner city) some student improvement.

From a 2007 article in "The Economist";



http://www.economist.com/node/9119786

Again, argue the merits of vouchers to your hearts content but you can't say they restrict choice.
Because what you describe is not a need-based system. Yes you may have a choice with vouchers, but unless you pay any extra tuition, it will only be enough for the same public school or an equally starved charter school. Remember that charter schools in average don't produce better results than public schools? Fine, so you have a choice between Walmart and Sam's Club. What's the point? Is that all you need to be happy? Having that choice?

But maybe you have the choice to take your voucher and bring it to a private school to reduce the tuition somewhat. Great. But that's not a choice which is open to everybody.

I specifically said need-based. The fact that you might have a choice between two or three schools does not imply everyone's need is met. What's so difficult to understand?
 
Meanwhile, Obama released the long form of his birth certificate. We might hope this will shut up zealots and idiots like Trump, but don't count on it. They'll latch on to something else, and I'm sure there will be a faction of them that say this document is forged.

The President is right, the entire thing was just silliness and he seems like the only voice of reason at this time.
 
May 23, 2010
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Meanwhile, Obama released the long form of his birth certificate. We might hope this will shut up zealots and idiots like Trump, but don't count on it. They'll latch on to something else, and I'm sure there will be a faction of them that say this document is forged.

The President is right, the entire thing was just silliness and he seems like the only voice of reason at this time.
The RWrs are having a meltdown on anyone who doesn't believe the birth certificate is Photoshopped.
 
May 13, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Meanwhile, Obama released the long form of his birth certificate. We might hope this will shut up zealots and idiots like Trump, but don't count on it. They'll latch on to something else, and I'm sure there will be a faction of them that say this document is forged.

The President is right, the entire thing was just silliness and he seems like the only voice of reason at this time.
Like the birth certificate ever mattered. Obama is still black which is the one and only reason those crazies go after him.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I like the Red. Nice touch.

So people start business to provide jobs. Check.
It used to be that any successful business cared about the health and happiness of its workers, now it is only the salary and perks of the CEO and BOD and keeping the shareholders happy or at least quiet.
Anyone with wealth exploited someone else. Check.
Paying minimum wage or less and downsizing to increase profits while the same CEO's and BOD's make million is certainly exploitation in my world.
The unemployed should not care at all about the health of private enterprise. Check.
Most unemployed people that I know are too busy looking for work to worry about that crap.
I'm learning a lot today.
Since you enjoyed the red, I'll do it again.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Cobblestones said:
Because what you describe is not a need-based system. Yes you may have a choice with vouchers, but unless you pay any extra tuition, it will only be enough for the same public school or an equally starved charter school. Remember that charter schools in average don't produce better results than public schools? Fine, so you have a choice between Walmart and Sam's Club. What's the point? Is that all you need to be happy? Having that choice?

But maybe you have the choice to take your voucher and bring it to a private school to reduce the tuition somewhat. Great. But that's not a choice which is open to everybody.

I specifically said need-based. The fact that you might have a choice between two or three schools does not imply everyone's need is met. What's so difficult to understand?
But maybe you have the choice to take your voucher and bring it to a private school to reduce the tuition somewhat. Great. But that's not a choice which is open to everybody.
Well, that depends on what the true cost per student in the inner city is. LA metro is as high as $29,000 per student. This is enough to pay for the most exclusive private schools in LA. So, I don't accept the premise.

http://www.calwatchdog.com/2010/08/20/lausd-spends-30k-per-student/

Remember that charter schools in average don't produce better results than public schools? Fine, so you have a choice between Walmart and Sam's Club. What's the point? Is that all you need to be happy? Having that choice?
Again, I don't accept the premise. I've stated Charter schools not to be the only answer in every situation. The point is public school districts are spending large sums of money in the inner cities. If the schools are under performing then the parents likely are aware of it. Most of these parents might choose to send their kids elsewhere but can't. Perhaps the parents only have choices between two or three rotten schools. This is what I'd consider total failure.

The fact that you might have a choice between two or three schools does not imply everyone's need is met.
In what world would this ever be true (everyone's needs being met)?

Perhaps I misunderstood your original comment regarding a parent assessing a need of their child and how this relates to socialism.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hugh Januss said:
Since you enjoyed the red, I'll do it again.
Most unemployed people that I know are too busy looking for work to worry about that crap.
Do you suppose that at least part of the unemployment has to do with business' suffering too? Maybe the unemployed understand the need for a healthy, growing private sector so that there is actually a need for labor.

It used to be that any successful business cared about the health and happiness of its workers, now it is only the salary and perks of the CEO and BOD and keeping the shareholders happy or at least quiet.
While this may be true with some organizations don't you think this to be a bit of a sweeping generalization?

Paying minimum wage or less and downsizing to increase profits while the same CEO's and BOD's make million is certainly exploitation in my world.
Mine too. Can you name any companies operating this way? I'd like to know who they are.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Do you suppose that at least part of the unemployment has to do with business' suffering too? Maybe the unemployed understand the need for a healthy, growing private sector so that there is actually a need for labor.



While this may be true with some organizations don't you think this to be a bit of a sweeping generalization?



Mine too. Can you name any companies operating this way? I'd like to know who they are.
The only businesses that are suffering in America are genuine small business brick and mortar companies. Big corporations by and large are doing fine because they have learned how to eliminate the waste of actually having to pay a living wage, or even their share of taxes, everything that you purport to be for in the interest of business really only benefits the big corporations, who are in my opinion selling out America.

My second point is indeed a generalization as it is only true of all big corporations.
 
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