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May 23, 2010
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Hugh Januss said:
All he knows is how to kowtow to the "movers and shakers" of the economy because that is what he learned from "Atlas Shrugged".
kowtow... I called it something else. He thinks Barbara Bush and Ayn Rand will be waiting beside St Peter to wave him through the pearly gates on account of his loyal "kowtow"ING..
 
You know, reading that Obama speech Scott posted has me thinking. We actually could trim the debt, without raising the ceiling. We could make short term, and long-term plans.

Drastically cut defense spending, and get out of all three wars we're in would be my first start.

Eliminate tax breaks to the oil industry, and many other such nonsense.

Eliminate the Bush tax cuts, now.

Why the only solution that can be done to fix the problem to the Tea Party people is to cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security is beyond me.
 
Not bad ideas, Alpe. The bottom line Income must be greater than or equal to expenses IMO... or at least that should be the goal. So, another idea is government needs to stay out of silly legislation such as those promoting things like merc-vapor lights over fluorescent. In some ways government is too big.
 
redtreviso said:
kowtow... I called it something else. He thinks Barbara Bush and Ayn Rand will be waiting beside St Peter to wave him through the pearly gates on account of his loyal "kowtow"ING..
Or he could end up like Julius Exclusus de caelis ("Julius Excluded from Heaven) in the satire (1514) of Erasmus of Rotterdam:

The dialogue begins with a drunken Pope Julius II trying to open the gate of heaven with the key to his secret money-chest. He is accompanied by his Genius, his guardian angel. Behind him are the soldiers who died in his military campaigns, who he promised would go to heaven regardless of deeds. Peter denies him passage and questions him about his deeds on Earth, even when Julius threatens him with his army and papal bulls of excommunication. Julius then goes into a lengthy explanation of his deeds, justifying his sins, ranging from simony to pederasty, with the fact that the pope has the authority to excuse any sin. Peter is disgusted by his description and turns him away. The dialogue ends with Julius planning to muster an army to create his own paradise and capture Heaven.

An excerpt: PETER: Immortal God, what a sewer I smell here! Who are you?
JULIUS: So you know what sort of a prince you’re insulting, listen a bit …The Venetians, previously not conquered by anyone, I crushed in battle…I drove the French, who were then the terror of the whole world, completely out of Italy…when I died I left five million ducats…
PETER: Madman! All I hear about is a leader not of the church but of this world, more wicked than the pagans…
JULIUS: You would say otherwise if you had witnessed even one of my triumphs…the horses, the parades of armed soldiers…the lavishness of the displays, the triumphs, the booty…myself carried aloft like some divine thing…So you won’t open?
PETER: To any, sooner than to such a pestilence; you yourself are a great builder: build yourself a new paradise.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
You know, reading that Obama speech Scott posted has me thinking. We actually could trim the debt, without raising the ceiling. We could make short term, and long-term plans.

Drastically cut defense spending, and get out of all three wars we're in would be my first start.

Eliminate tax breaks to the oil industry, and many other such nonsense.

Eliminate the Bush tax cuts, now.

Why the only solution that can be done to fix the problem to the Tea Party people is to cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security is beyond me.

A recent Time survey revealed that 16% of Americans are convinced that they form part of the richest 1% in the country. Consequently they all believe themselves to be victims of the "hunt for the most rich." In this way the American Dream is transformed into a pathological illusion, into a distorting mirror of reality, a pure mirage that has aspects of a hallucination.

However this encourages the republicans to maintain a hardline and intransigent position. Whereas the moderate conservatives, who have tried to reach an agreement with Obama, get intimidated by the far right wing; that is the new generation of conservatives brought to Congress by the Tea Party. The extremists want nothing less then the obliteration of the Social State, right down to the cancellation of its New Deal imprint left by Roosevelt and the consequent privatization of everything.

For his part Obama invokes "shared sacrifices," admitting that "cuts of public spending will be necessary, but also the richest Americans have to assume their (fiscal) responsibility."

One would think this would seem to be the rhetoric of reason and good sense. But, no, one would of course be wrong in such thinking, because for that other piece of Americana mentioned above it is socialist propaganda.
 
May 23, 2010
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Alpe d'Huez said:
You know, reading that Obama speech Scott posted has me thinking. We actually could trim the debt, without raising the ceiling. We could make short term, and long-term plans.

Drastically cut defense spending, and get out of all three wars we're in would be my first start.

Eliminate tax breaks to the oil industry, and many other such nonsense.

Eliminate the Bush tax cuts, now.

Why the only solution that can be done to fix the problem to the Tea Party people is to cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security is beyond me.
If they could cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security just for minorities, they'd be right where they want to go..
 
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redtreviso said:
Its called damage control.. due to how YOU voted.. but lets all stop and worry about taxes on dividend income and write offs for that new african mahogany interior for the Gulfstream .. boo fn hoo
Damage control? LMFAO.

How much damage control do you think there will be by the end of Obama's 4 years? 6 Trillion? 7 Trillion? More?

BTW, The thousands of people who work for General Dynamics and Gulfstream (even the guys who design, manufacture and install the Mohogany interior) likely enjoy the fact there are corporations and governments around the world still buying the products they produce.

Hopefully in future years there will still be deamand for their products (although I realize you'd put them out of business in a heartbeat if you could).
 
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Hugh Januss said:
All he knows is how to kowtow to the "movers and shakers" of the economy because that is what he learned from "Atlas Shrugged".
You sound more and more like Redtreviso every passing day. Got any new material? How about an idea or two?
 
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rhubroma said:
Someday we will be capable of thinking beyond merely those who drive the economy.

Beyond the economy itself, or else the talked about mutual guaranteed destruction (or the enslavement of the masses) will not only be the stuff of science fiction.

Whereas I'm not so sure what you refer to as so called "driving the economy" isn't in reality the unbridled exploitation of it, under the aegis of government, and to the detriment of the collective. The obsession with so called economic activity, without a more equitable distribution of wealth, in a market without principle where the only governing law is pure greed, has gotten us to precisely where we are. While what you call punishment is what I see as taking responsibility for one's actions. Nothing more. Especially in this hyper-business world, in this management universe.

or else the talked about mutual guaranteed destruction (or the enslavement of the masses) will not only be the stuff of science fiction.
An absolute certainty when the destruction of the economy happens. Once again, there is no public money (as in none) with out a private economy to tax. All the things you'd like to see go away without a healthy private economy.

I realize this makes you extremely uncomfortable.
 
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on3m@n@rmy said:
Not bad ideas, Alpe. The bottom line Income must be greater than or equal to expenses IMO... or at least that should be the goal. So, another idea is government needs to stay out of silly legislation such as those promoting things like merc-vapor lights over fluorescent. In some ways government is too big.
You are not allowed to say anything like this on this board lest be labeled a heretic by the lefties.

Income = or greater than expenses? What, are you crazy???

You realize now you hate the poor and downtrodden, public employees and their unions and you are nothing but a corporate shill happy to kiss the ring of those who employ you.

I have a tip for you. If you don't denounce capitalism and free market principles, denounce Bush in the most obscene terms, put miles of distance between you and anything any conservative republican might say or do you will be shreded by left on this board.

Oh, you have to hate all rich people (who are the rich??? PM Hugh Januss as I think he knows) to get in their club.

I'm just trying to help out... I have thousands of pages of experience.
 
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redtreviso said:
If they could cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security just for minorities, they'd be right where they want to go..

No. Absolutely not.

We want to cut entitlements to bitter, whiney and confused seniors from Texas who post stupidity on cycling message boards.

Admittedly, it's probably not going to be a long term solution but it's a start.
 
Scott SoCal said:
An absolute certainty when the destruction of the economy happens. Once again, there is no public money (as in none) with out a private economy to tax. All the things you'd like to see go away without a healthy private economy.

I realize this makes you extremely uncomfortable.
Yet, without the public, society, the private sector wouldn't make any cash. Zero.

I realize this makes you extremely uncomfortable.
 
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rhubroma said:
Yet, without the public, society, the private sector wouldn't make any cash. Zero.

I realize this makes you extremely uncomfortable.
Nope. The idea that big govt must torpedo the private sector in order to grow without restraint makes me uncomfortable.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
No. Absolutely not.

We want to cut entitlements to bitter, whiney and confused seniors from Texas who post stupidity on cycling message boards.

Admittedly, it's probably not going to be a long term solution but it's a start.
No really.. If you could divide up and cut entitlements by race and political loyalty it would be perfect for you. Maybe special lanes on the highway just the worthy like you..etc
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
Damage control? LMFAO.

How much damage control do you think there will be by the end of Obama's 4 years? 6 Trillion? 7 Trillion? More?

BTW, The thousands of people who work for General Dynamics and Gulfstream (even the guys who design, manufacture and install the Mohogany interior) likely enjoy the fact there are corporations and governments around the world still buying the products they produce.

Hopefully in future years there will still be deamand for their products (although I realize you'd put them out of business in a heartbeat if you could).
Just remember scott.. Your hero, Your alfalfanator, George W Bush stood right there in front of the whole country, the whole world and submitted to extortion by the very people who abused the system the most..Make it permanent government policy to protect us at all cost in perpetuity OR ELSE..
This is what Obama has to deal with..Bush's final gift..and your gift since you supported him and still support him..

BTW those mohagany interiors are done by euro subcontractors and are paid from a numbered cayman account to a numbered swiss account.. woooo hooooo.. The republican owners can get drunk in style on their way to their golf junkets or child sex vacations..
 
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redtreviso said:
Just remember scott.. Your hero, Your alfalfanator, George W Bush stood right there in front of the whole country, the whole world and submitted to extortion by the very people who abused the system the most..Make it permanent government policy to protect us at all cost in perpetuity OR ELSE..
This is what Obama has to deal with..Bush's final gift..and your gift since you supported him and still support him..

BTW those mohagany interiors are done by euro subcontractors and are paid from a numbered cayman account to a numbered swiss account.. woooo hooooo.. The republican owners can get drunk in style on their way to their golf junkets or child sex vacations..
Lotsa stuff I did not support Bush on. Since you voted for Obama I guess we can say you agree with everything he's ever said or done or will ever say or do.

Nice. Clean. Tidy. Mindless.

BTW, since you are in the know, does every US business pay their subs with numbered cayman to numbered swiss accounts? That's just amazing.:rolleyes:
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
Lotsa stuff I did not support Bush on. Since you voted for Obama I guess we can say you agree with everything he's ever said or done or will ever say or do.

Nice. Clean. Tidy. Mindless.

BTW, since you are in the know, does every US business pay their subs with numbered cayman to numbered swiss accounts? That's just amazing.:rolleyes:
I can SOOOOOOO live with that... Wouldn't want to be you though..Maybe Bush will build a paradise for you and him.

I really don't think Gulfstream interiors installed by visiting germans in a rented hanger at Teterboro Airport add anything to the world.(maybe they ordered some dominos pizzas?). They'll just get alcohol products spilled on them.
 
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redtreviso said:
I can SOOOOOOO live with that...
Of course. You don't think for yourself so you follow a corrupt politician around like a teenage Justin Bieber groupie.

How do you go through life supposedly "loving" humanity while hating people?

Envy has had a strange effect on you.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
Of course. You don't think for yourself so you follow a corrupt politician around like a teenage Justin Bieber groupie.

How do you go through life supposedly "loving" humanity while hating people?

Envy has had a strange effect on you.
It is your *itching that reeks of "I'm a rotten A**hole to the core" I bet you rode cobblestones in belgium and couldn't get your mind off that "young buck buying T-bone steaks with food stamps (that you provided)"

Funny how you mention Justin Beiber.. I have no idea who he is.. Marcus Bachmann does though.. Maybe you and Marcus can one day listen to showtunes together..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAYZ_y5FfBo
 
Meanwhile, the US Treasury has less cash on hand than numerous US corporations (list below).

Three things stand out to me reading this:

The conservative claim that the government is too big and taking over everything is nonsense. One could even claim that it's the Chinese who are doing so, and be more accurate.

The government has less money than Bank of America, JP Morgan Stanley, and Goldman Sachs, among others who actually had to be bailed out by the Treasury, who absorbed most of their toxic assets, as lobbied by these companies.

The numbers rebut Republican claims that the government has plenty of money to keep funding essential services while paying down its debt. And show that the conservatives really don't wish to pay down anything and think the government should not only be 30th on that list, but probably shouldn't exist (other than to fund banks, wars, and stop drugs, immigration, gays and abortions). It also belies GOP claims that companies are in need of lower corporate taxes without stipulation. American corporations have a record amount of cash even while the rest of us are stuck in a recession, they are just refusing to invest domestically while lobbying for tax breaks. They have all the money for themselves, and want even more.

This reminds me of what happened several times in history, from the Roman Empire, to Tsarist Russia, to the Weimar Republic. Where all the cash and goods were concentrated at the top, and everyone else lives were slowly drained to squalor. You'd think if no other reason some of these right wing people who think we need more money to the super wealthy and mega corporations, and less to the government, so this schism between the classes can continue to grow as the predators pray on those less fortunate would open up a history book at some point. It's going to be an interesting day when some of the working poor who believe they are conservative realize that corporations will not bail them out, nor help them in any way, and wish to take everything from them, or when the working poor liberals tolerance is broken, and they realize just how easy it is for them to attain firearms and other weapons.

 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Meanwhile, the US Treasury has less cash on hand than numerous US corporations (list below).

Three things stand out to me reading this:

The conservative claim that the government is too big and taking over everything is nonsense. One could even claim that it's the Chinese who are doing so, and be more accurate.

The government has less money than Bank of America, JP Morgan Stanley, and Goldman Sachs, among others who actually had to be bailed out by the Treasury, who absorbed most of their toxic assets, as lobbied by these companies.

The numbers rebut Republican claims that the government has plenty of money to keep funding essential services while paying down its debt. And show that the conservatives really don't wish to pay down anything and think the government should not only be 30th on that list, but probably shouldn't exist (other than to fund banks, wars, and stop drugs, immigration, gays and abortions). It also belies GOP claims that companies are in need of lower corporate taxes without stipulation. American corporations have a record amount of cash even while the rest of us are stuck in a recession, they are just refusing to invest domestically while lobbying for tax breaks. They have all the money for themselves, and want even more.

This reminds me of what happened several times in history, from the Roman Empire, to Tsarist Russia, to the Weimar Republic. Where all the cash and goods were concentrated at the top, and everyone else lives were slowly drained to squalor. You'd think if no other reason some of these right wing people who think we need more money to the super wealthy and mega corporations, and less to the government, so this schism between the classes can continue to grow as the predators pray on those less fortunate would open up a history book at some point. It's going to be an interesting day when some of the working poor who believe they are conservative realize that corporations will not bail them out, nor help them in any way, and wish to take everything from them, or when the working poor liberals tolerance is broken, and they realize just how easy it is for them to attain firearms and other weapons.

This is a straight up red herring. Timmy could correct this in an hour on the printing press. I don't see anything above that speaks to the debt the Fed has bought up. It's called monetizing debt. The Fed and other intragovernmental agencies own about 6 Trillion of our 14.5 Trillion in debt.

It's a shell game.

You'd be screaming bloody murder if any corporation were allowed to do anything remotely close to this, but since you believe in big govt it just gets glossed over.

Big corporations also own significant portions of the national debt, particularly the super-evil insurance companies.

So to say big corporations will not bail out the USA isn't quite accurate. In some cases they already are. While the Chinese are divesting themselves of our debt private business seems to be stepping up.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Big Insurance providing interest free loans (Billions) to the FDIC when it was insolvent in late 2008/early 2009. Not all corporations are all about me, me, me.
 
Scott SoCal said:
Nope. The idea that big govt must torpedo the private sector in order to grow without restraint makes me uncomfortable.

What makes me uncomfortable is that the private sector has taken over democracy, and not even the entire private sector, but a minority in it, for which it's growth means the exploitation of everything and at the expense of everything, literally everything.

This is the reality we all find ourselves in, you and I, the sovereign debt is proof of it, whether or not you wish to admit or not that you will bear the burden of it.

You look at the world based on your ideology, because in the final analysis you would like to be one of them, and so vote for them, even at the expense of your average position.
 
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rhubroma said:
What makes me uncomfortable is that the private sector has taken over democracy, and not even the entire private sector, but a minority in it, for which it's growth means the exploitation of everything and at the expense of everything, literally everything.

This is the reality we all find ourselves in, you and I, the sovereign debt is proof of it, whether or not you wish to admit or not that you will bear the burden of it.

You look at the world based on your ideology, because in the final analysis you would like to be one of them, and so vote for them, even at the expense of your average position.
I'm not at war with 'them'. You are. That is a significant difference.
 
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