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Anonymous

Guest
rhubroma said:
Yes and time is running out. If we haven't already surpassed the point of no return. Don't be concerned with my mood. For my tribulation is only a philosophical misery, whereas you are unhappiness personified.
:D Yes, you act unhappy while really sereno. Who knew?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Rouetheday said:
Come on, guys. This ScottSoCal bashing is getting a bit anemic and generic. Let me show you how it should be done. Hey Scott, that signature of yours about 'fast cars, women, and beer' has me wondering if you have gotten all your Dane Cook DVDs autographed by the man himself or is that still on your bucket list? ;)
Given the demographics of the cycling community in the USA you'd think there would more free market, limited government types to help out here.

There probably are but are likely smart enough not to waste a bunch of time chasing their tail on this thread.

As much as I'd like to I just have not developed much of a flavor for Dane Cook.
 
ChrisE said:
Interesting, and I will tell you why.

I have neither the time nor inclination to go out and work and promote a 3rd party candidate. I have learned to work within the current system.

By continuing to vote for either of these two inept corrupted choices, you are endorsing the status quo. If people start staying away in droves, it would provide incentive for the parties to either change or for a 3rd party to arise.

You are condoning that which you abhor, but at least you are not a dupe or a useful idiot. You just hold your nose when you vote, but that is the problem.

Somebody said at least some nut would not have their finger on the nuclear button if a Dem was in the whitehouse. I do agree with that, and that is the only thing that makes me re-evaluate my position. But, with the stupid electoral college never being abolished, and me living in Texas, then that doesn't mean my vote is worth a whole lot, does it? If I lived in Ohio or Florida that might bother me a little more, though my basic premise of condoning what the parties do by continually voting for them would still be true.
That there are no other options besides what we actually get to choose between, merely demonstrates how the interests of some have been completely successful in dominating the system; by establishing the boundaries of a political/economic and social agenda and hence the very parameters of our democracy - beyond which, at least under the present regime, it is impossible to reach.

You speak of not condoning what the parties do by voting. This is actually a pretty good way of looking at it and, therefore, I really couldn't criticize you for such suffrage abstinence. At the same time it only speaks of how depressing and disgustingly awful the state of affairs has in fact become.

Apart from this the average citizen is often simply too distracted and/or lazy to really get informed on all the political, economic and social issues, while there is little to encourage them to do so in the consumeristic and mass media driven culture. Such baseness is appalling though. I mean if the democracy, for the reason cited above, has become so established in setting the nation's modus vivendi, such that there truly requires an Olympian effort for one to even attempt to work beyond the current system: what does this say about our state? And most people either don't have the time for it, or else couldn't care less to be honest, which is basically contemptible. Whereas, bogged down in the political morass, you just seem to have become discouraged and, more or less out of selfishness, decided to give up. But this is difficult to blame you for.

So the fact that we can't even hold contemptible a position which in a democracy neither reason nor argument should rationally justify, is a terrible sign that both the people and the political class have not demonstrated themselves to be very worthy of it. While those in control from the executive offices get to reap all the benefits from seeing their objectives realized, which is tragic really and lamentable.

It's almost as if we need to first go into rehab from this democracy and detoxify ourselves from its noxious effluvium, to be capable of making the changes we desire. We first have to go on hiatus from the putrified stench that has made the air unbreathable and which of course is slowly killing us, then finally breath new, fresh, good-scented air that reinvigorates the body and the mind, to be able to let the old go out and allow the new to come in.

Unfortunately this is generally beyond the people, for which the stale air that's lethal to them and that will eventually extinguish them is not much cause to necessary escape, and they are actually quite content to allow it to accompany them all the way to the grave, even if that means surrendering their lives to it which they unhesitatingly do and so make a complete and utter sham of democracy as is plain to see.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
rhubroma said:
I simply appear here as one does in a photograph, which is only an interpretation of a person, if not to say visual performance.
Yes, your point of view is simply a mirage.

There's a slang term for that.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
rhubroma said:
No, just a sensational performance! Who cares if it's real or merely simulated?

What's slang for sensational performance?


Troll..........
 
Dec 7, 2010
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rhubroma said:
The worst kind of evil is the one you can't perceive.

It's like a scent you can't smell, because it has no odor. :D

But really, I just got done reading Perfume by Patrick Suskind, another sensational performance.
:eek: wonderful ... :eek:
 
May 23, 2010
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There is No Moral Case for Tax Havens
They are the epitome of unfairness and injustice, leaving ordinary citizens to foot the bill for multinational corporations
by Paul Vallely

There is a building in the Cayman Islands that is home to 12,000 corporations. It must be a very big building. Or a very big tax scam. Tax havens are in the spotlight since the Chancellor, George Osborne, did a deal the other day with the Swiss authorities to slap a levy on secret bank accounts held there by British citizens. Opinions are divided on the move, which could net the Treasury £5bn, but which tacitly legitimizes bank accounts kept secret from the Inland Revenue. It is a de facto amnesty for those guilty of tax evasion crimes. And they will pay less than they would if they declared their income to the British taxman.

Are there any legitimate reasons why anyone would want to have a secret bank account – and pay a premium to maintain their anonymity – or move their money to one of the pink dots on the map which are the final remnants of the British empire: the Caymans, Bermuda, the Turks and Caicos and the British Virgin Islands?

The moral case against is clear enough. Tax havens epitomize unfairness, cheating and injustice... -cont

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/08/28-1
 
May 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Well, it won't come down to me making that choice. But if the choice ultimately comes down to Obama v. Bachmann or Obama v. Perry...

It will sort of create a new definition of the phrase "sad state of affairs."
Well why don't you vote Dem then? Obama has done everything a wingnut president would do in terms of not holding any corporate entity accountable, keeping the Bush taxcuts as well as instigating the demise of SS, further eroding civil rights of the accused, and bombing foreigners.

I mean, what all could you ask for? You vote for him and you get Bachman or Perry, without the potential "religious nutjob with finger on the button" variable.
 
May 18, 2009
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rhubroma said:
That there are no other options besides what we actually get to choose between, merely demonstrates how the interests of some have been completely successful in dominating the system; by establishing the boundaries of a political/economic and social agenda and hence the very parameters of our democracy - beyond which, at least under the present regime, it is impossible to reach.

You speak of not condoning what the parties do by voting. This is actually a pretty good way of looking at it and, therefore, I really couldn't criticize you for such suffrage abstinence. At the same time it only speaks of how depressing and disgustingly awful the state of affairs has in fact become.

Apart from this the average citizen is often simply too distracted and/or lazy to really get informed on all the political, economic and social issues, while there is little to encourage them to do so in the consumeristic and mass media driven culture. Such baseness is appalling though. I mean if the democracy, for the reason cited above, has become so established in setting the nation's modus vivendi, such that there truly requires an Olympian effort for one to even attempt to work beyond the current system: what does this say about our state? And most people either don't have the time for it, or else couldn't care less to be honest, which is basically contemptible. Whereas, bogged down in the political morass, you just seem to have become discouraged and, more or less out of selfishness, decided to give up. But this is difficult to blame you for.

So the fact that we can't even hold contemptible a position which in a democracy neither reason nor argument should rationally justify, is a terrible sign that both the people and the political class have not demonstrated themselves to be very worthy of it. While those in control from the executive offices get to reap all the benefits from seeing their objectives realized, which is tragic really and lamentable.

It's almost as if we need to first go into rehab from this democracy and detoxify ourselves from its noxious effluvium, to be capable of making the changes we desire. We first have to go on hiatus from the putrified stench that has made the air unbreathable and which of course is slowly killing us, then finally breath new, fresh, good-scented air that reinvigorates the body and the mind, to be able to let the old go out and allow the new to come in.

Unfortunately this is generally beyond the people, for which the stale air that's lethal to them and that will eventually extinguish them is not much cause to necessary escape, and they are actually quite content to allow it to accompany them all the way to the grave, even if that means surrendering their lives to it which they unhesitatingly do and so make a complete and utter sham of democracy as is plain to see.
Right, and you either learn to live within that system or you work to change it, or you work to change it passively like me by not voting. I get an added benefit by not getting those pesky jury sommons in the mail as well.

I agree the game is rigged, moreso even now with the SCOTUS recent ruling on campaign contributions.

You talk big picture, long term, with alarmist rhetoric. I do not think it will become as bad as you fear, though my predictions are always short in terms of how stupid people can be.

I have stated this before but you and I and reasonable people like Alpe on this thread, even Scott, have no magic decoder ring that tells us, and not the rubes, they are getting ****ed, manipulated, and demagogued. Knowledge is out there, even on a politics thread on a cycling forum, where people can learn and make informed decisions, and thus realize both parties suck.

The people have only themselves to blame...not the SCOTUS, not Rush Limbaugh, not Michelle Bachman. These things are all a result of the decisions of the people in a democracy. This isn't a chicken/egg thing. Supply and demand plays out even in politics. Unfortunately, innocents suffer but there is nothing anybody can do in a game with these rules.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
ChrisE said:
Well why don't you vote Dem then? Obama has done everything a wingnut president would do in terms of not holding any corporate entity accountable, keeping the Bush taxcuts as well as instigating the demise of SS, further eroding civil rights of the accused, and bombing foreigners.

I mean, what all could you ask for? You vote for him and you get Bachman or Perry, without the potential "religious nutjob with finger on the button" variable.
I'm not at all worried about Bachmann or Perry having the nuclear codes. You may be, I'm not.

If Obama had given indications of pragmatism (a la Clinton) relative to economic performance I could see myself voting for him. He does not, so I don't think there is much chance of him receiving my vote. To that end, it really doesn't matter who I vote for as I'm in Cali. That's an automatic electoral college run up for the dems.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
I'm not at all worried about Bachmann or Perry having the nuclear codes. You may be, I'm not.

If Obama had given indications of pragmatism (a la Clinton) relative to economic performance I could see myself voting for him. He does not, so I don't think there is much chance of him receiving my vote. To that end, it really doesn't matter who I vote for as I'm in Cali. That's an automatic electoral college run up for the dems.
I guess that makes us a wash in the big scheme of things eh?

Lucky for you there are plenty of Darryl (car thief)Issas and Dana (I killed a russian) Rohrabachers for you to give us.
 
May 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I'm not at all worried about Bachmann or Perry having the nuclear codes. You may be, I'm not.

If Obama had given indications of pragmatism (a la Clinton) relative to economic performance I could see myself voting for him. He does not, so I don't think there is much chance of him receiving my vote. To that end, it really doesn't matter who I vote for as I'm in Cali. That's an automatic electoral college run up for the dems.
Yes, I'm sure you weren't one of the right wingers saying the world was gonna end in 92 when he raised taxes, or proposed health care legislation. :rolleyes:

You aren't even a subtle enough liar to make conversations interesting.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
ChrisE said:
Yes, I'm sure you weren't one of the right wingers saying the world was gonna end in 92 when he raised taxes, or proposed health care legislation. :rolleyes:

You aren't even a subtle enough liar to make conversations interesting.
I'd vote for Clinton in a heartbeat. Never going to be for universal heathcare as I don't think the govt is capable, but Clinton did some very good things that helped drive economic expansion, tax increases notwithstanding. If you are waiting to vote for somebody you completely agree with then you better run for something. But remember to vote for yourself as it may be the only vote you get.

Nobody is forcing you to read my posts, Chris. Just skip them. I'd surely hate to bore you.
 
May 23, 2010
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Scott SoCal said:
I'd vote for Clinton in a heartbeat. Never going to be for universal heathcare as I don't think the govt is capable, but Clinton did some very good things that helped drive economic expansion, tax increases notwithstanding. If you are waiting to vote for somebody you completely agree with then you better run for something. But remember to vote for yourself as it may be the only vote you get.

Nobody if forcing you to read my posts, Chris. Just skip them. I'd surely hate to bore you.
saying that does not make up for your 1000% support of this

 
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Anonymous

Guest
redtreviso said:
saying that does not make up for your 1000% support of this

I realize the world is either black or white (to you).

Most reasonable people do what they think is right when it comes time to make a decision, except for you I suppose.


BTW, here was one of the nutcases I could have voted for;


Gore: Global warming skeptics are this generation’s racists

http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/28/gore-global-warming-skeptics-are-this-generations-racists/

Gore is losing so what does he do? Labels the opposition as racist. How very liberal of him.

I'm confident you feel he's doing the right thing though.
 
ChrisE said:
Right, and you either learn to live within that system or you work to change it, or you work to change it passively like me by not voting. I get an added benefit by not getting those pesky jury sommons in the mail as well.

I agree the game is rigged, moreso even now with the SCOTUS recent ruling on campaign contributions.

You talk big picture, long term, with alarmist rhetoric. I do not think it will become as bad as you fear, though my predictions are always short in terms of how stupid people can be.

I have stated this before but you and I and reasonable people like Alpe on this thread, even Scott, have no magic decoder ring that tells us, and not the rubes, they are getting ****ed, manipulated, and demagogued. Knowledge is out there, even on a politics thread on a cycling forum, where people can learn and make informed decisions, and thus realize both parties suck.

The people have only themselves to blame...not the SCOTUS, not Rush Limbaugh, not Michelle Bachman. These things are all a result of the decisions of the people in a democracy. This isn't a chicken/egg thing. Supply and demand plays out even in politics. Unfortunately, innocents suffer but there is nothing anybody can do in a game with these rules.
The people are only partly to blame, because even the most alert and guarded of citizen is only as effective in contributing to change as he is in exercising the power of his vote, which as your example so glaringly demonstrates amounts to nothing or very little these days. Whereas democracy is itself inherently flawed, because all society can't be informed, on all the relevant issues, in a conscientious and competent way, just as it is impossible for every citizen to be aware of all the forces working over the market economy. This is chiefly because of personal responsibilities inevitably getting in the way and the distracting and coercive forces placed upon him by others and the prevailing worldview - in America's case free-market, liberal capitalism - this causes him to see. And these will be his points of reference when entering the voting booth. Since America has done such a good and thorough job in justifiably building the identity and ideology of itself as the global leader of this free-market system, quite naturally the political class he will be called upon to vote for will in no way be different from this identity and ideology and hence be part of the mainstream stranglehold.

Apart from severely restricting democracy, the problem with this mainstream stranglehold, as I see it, is that centrist American politics has become at once too colossal and monolithic, but also incredibly narrow in scope, which has led to an appallingly debased and unprogressive political process, as well as rampant voter apathy. It is also absolutely ruled by daft ideologues on the conservative side and meek imposters or else charlatans on the left. But basically this means the country is on automatic pilot until a required change of course places the vessel back in the hands of its pilots. United Europe, especially in the wake of the communist demise, has increasingly witnessed its political process also dominated by essentially one political culture and one economic principle, which is resulting in a similar voter apathy. The so called end of ideology, may also cause the end of mass suffrage and the consequent enfeebling of the democratic institutions for which it is supposed to provide the vitality and lymph.

It's thus the people behind the scenes controlling the big agenda and the discussions surrounding it, as well as who then is eligible and who is not to run for political office. They have the power to lead the people and they often do with willful deceit. Limbaugh and co. are only their most droll pundits, but even they aren't innocent of any crime. This is why I never tire of stating my views, however unpopular and incomprehensible they may be to some.

Not that what I think matters, however, hopefully enough people's thoughts that do will unite someday to offer us all a more visionary and decidedly more sapient and principled alternative. Or at least one that can temper much present insanity.

Highly unlikely though as this may be, in the rare and exquisite chance that day comes, even then one must exercise their right to suffrage for the new to arrive. It may not be much of a choice, but it is undoubtedly the only one at our disposal.
 
ChrisE said:
By continuing to vote for either of these two inept corrupted choices, you are endorsing the status quo. If people start staying away in droves, it would provide incentive for the parties to either change or for a 3rd party to arise....
But you live in TX, right? Last gubernatorial election with over 17m registered voters, and some 24m people qualified to vote, Rick Perry beat Bill White. Perry had 2.7m votes, to White's 2.1m. So basically only 11% of the people in your state elected your governor. What kind of message did that send? Well to him and his party, that he would be a great President. Looks to me like the other 89% that didn't vote for the guy, and 80% that didn't even bother to vote at all had zero impact. Be that out of protest, ignorance, laziness, whatever, it had none.

I mean, unless you're taking some other action to change the system - and I don't mean posting on bicycling message boards - you're not likely to have any impact at all on your state's politics, or national politics, by not voting.
 
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