World Politics

[python]

http://www.nst.com.my/node/20961?d=1
(this seems a malaysian paper)

KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.

This corroborates an emerging theory postulated by local investigators that the Boeing 777-200 was crippled by an air-to-air missile and finished off with cannon fire from a fighter that had been shadowing it as it plummeted to earth.

several sources and references in the article have been posted here before...

 

[blutto]

http://www.nst.com.my/node/20961?d=1
(this seems a malaysian paper)

several sources and references in the article have been posted here before...

...if true, this most certainly takes the "accident" scenario off the table....

...wonder if some posters here will see this as just more "proof" of the evil machinations international arch-villain Vlad the Putin...wherein the Putinster playing his favourite game , 11 dimension political chess, has been caught deploying the famous reverse back-flip with a full twist false flag maneuver...

Cheers

 

[python]

...if true, this most certainly takes the "accident" scenario off the table....

Cheers

perhaps, but, i'd think if the american intelligence knows the truth, as a very respectable for his reliable sources journalist perry is sure, then the rooskies must know the truth too...yet,at their military briefing on the 17th july they were only 'suggestive' of the air-to-air action.

me thinks, if they were leaning that way and wanted to send a stronger signal rather than a 'hint', they would refer to a mig-29 in the vicinity of hm17 (a dedicated and very capable fighter that ukis have aplenty), rather than su-25 (a barely capable ground attacker), as they did. particularly, puzzling for me is that the radar signature of mig29 and su-25 - compared to a huge airliner, is about the same andthe rooskie general would barely lie if he made a stronger reference to mig29.

but i agree, an air-to-air shooting practically excludes an 'accident', which then imo would place the responsibility on the rogue far-right ukis rather then poro himself controlled by the us...

 

[Merckx index]

http://www.nst.com.my/node/20961?d=1
(this seems a malaysian paper)

several sources and references in the article have been posted here before...

The evidence is the holes in the cockpit, holes moreover on both sides, leading to the conclusion that the plane was fired on by two different military jets. But even supposing the Ukrainians wanted to shoot down that plane from the air, why would they dispatch two jets to do it? Their statements since the downing make it obvious, if it wasn’t already, that they don’t want to be identified as the cause of the crash. Why increase the chances by having two jets following the airliner?

There is also the black box evidence. If two or even one Ukrainian jet followed this plane and shot it down, I assume this would be recorded. AFAIK, we haven’t heard any reports about what the black box does or doesn’t say.

Finally, no one seems to deny that in addition to the evidence of machine gun fire, portions of the fuselage clearly exhibit characteristics consistent with being hit by shrapnel from a SAM:

Yesterday, the New Straits Times quoted experts who had said that photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes — the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with “flechettes”, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.

So we have this strange scenario in which the plane is first (I would assume) fired upon by air-to-air missiles, then subsequently hit by a SAM. Is one going to argue that both assaults were made by Ukrainians? If so, was each attacker unaware of the other, or was this done to be certain of finishing the job? Either way, sounds like a huge stretch to me. Or that the SAM was fired by separatists trying to hit one of the Ukrainian jets?

So here is an alternative theory: could portions of the fuselage have been fired upon, intentionally or unintentionally, after the plane was already on the ground? I'm no military analyst, and have no idea whether anyone on the ground in the vicinity would have weapons capable of leaving that kind of signature, but someone here probably does know. I'm also guessing that careful analysis of the holes might be capable of distinguishing holes made by machine gun fire on the plane when it was intact and in the air from that when it was fragmented and on the ground.

 

[python]

The evidence is the holes in the cockpit, holes moreover on both sides, leading to the conclusion that the plane was fired on by two different military jets. But even supposing the Ukrainians wanted to shoot down that plane from the air, why would they dispatch two jets to do it? Their statements since the downing make it obvious, if it wasn’t already, that they don’t want to be identified as the cause of the crash. Why increase the chances by having two jets following the airliner?

There is also the black box evidence. If two or even one Ukrainian jet followed this plane and shot it down, I assume this would be recorded. AFAIK, we haven’t heard any reports about what the black box does or doesn’t say.

Finally, no one seems to deny that in addition to the evidence of machine gun fire, portions of the fuselage clearly exhibit characteristics consistent with being hit by shrapnel from a SAM:



So we have this strange scenario in which the plane is first (I would assume) fired upon by air-to-air missiles, then subsequently hit by a SAM. Is one going to argue that both assaults were made by Ukrainians? If so, was each attacker unaware of the other, or was this done to be certain of finishing the job? Either way, sounds like a huge stretch to me. Or that the SAM was fired by separatists trying to hit one of the Ukrainian jets?

So here is an alternative theory: could portions of the fuselage have been fired upon, intentionally or unintentionally, after the plane was already on the ground? I'm no military analyst, and have no idea whether anyone on the ground in the vicinity would have weapons capable of leaving that kind of signature, but someone here probably does know. I'm also guessing that careful analysis of the holes might be capable of distinguishing holes made by machine gun fire on the plane when it was intact and in the air from that when it was fragmented and on the ground.

Check one of the sources in the article...I am traveling, cant help you from my mobile, I think it was the globalresearch. article where a german expert answers your questions about irregular shaped holes.

 

[blackcat]

but the sources must be good. going to first principles.


outside the US or Russian intelligence, I dont think anyone will get a certainty of reasonable confidence.

 

[blutto]

....oh my this is going get to be a lot of fun in a awful hurry if this goes thru...though in the short it is definitely a nice boost to Yats' friend in the oil and gas industry...remember, Enron may be dead, but its spirit lives on...

"Kyiv has warned it might cut Russian energy transit flows to Europe and ban Russian airlines from crossing its airspace. Ukraine has also proposed sanctions on Russian individuals and companies "financing terrorism."

Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk said on Friday that the measures are part of a sanctions bill that will be submitted to parliament, which is expected to vote on it next Tuesday.

The embargo includes complete or partial bans on all energy resources from Russia, and also over flights and road traffic via Ukrainian territory, the Ukrainian premier added.

The news pushed up gas prices on the London market on Friday, the Reuters news agency reported.

Ukraine serves as a vital route for Russian oil and gas to Europe. In the past, disputes over energy resulted in supply cuts for European consumers. In June, Moscow stopped its gas deliveries to Ukraine over a payment issue. "

Cheers

 

[python]

....oh my this is going get to be a lot of fun in a awful hurry if this goes thru...

it will definitively go thru the uki rada az the opposition is intimidated or destroyed thru a 'democratic' process..keep in mind, the communists' deputies are now banned and the party of regions deputies are too scared altogether to even attend the parliament sessions..

The curious part of all these uki threats is how will they explain to the eu consumers of russian natural gas and oil the interruption of deliveries...my idiotic common sense tellse it would be plain nonesense to blame on putya if the uki law says no deliveries from russia..I must be too devoid of brains to figure this

 

[blutto]

....I don't see consumption of the products of McBig Lie Inc dropping off anytime soon so it won't take long for most of "the people" to see that this is clearly that dastardly Putin's fault...

Cheers

 

[Amsterhammer]

A small beacon of good news.

"ZAKHO, Kurdistan Region—Local officials said today that 10,000 Yezidis who were stranded on Mount Shingal for one week were rescued and settled in the town of Zakho.

Medical teams and aid organizations in Zakho have rushed in to assist the rescued families, said Rudaw reporter.

Ashti Kocher, Zakho’s security chief said that Kurdish armed forces have opened a safe corridor for the Yezidis at Mount Shingal.

“We have also cleared about 30 kilometers of the ISIL forces in order to open a road for those families,” said Kocher, who currently leads a Peshmerga unit at Sinune village near Shingal.

Kocher said that the rescued civilians were transported to the Kurdistan Region through Rojava (Syrian Kurdistan) which is under the control of Kurdish forces known as the Peoples Protection Units (YPG).

Barakat Issa, Rudaw reporter on Mount Shingal said that the number of Yezidis stranded on the mountain is higher than initially reported. He said that nearly 100,000 people are hiding on the mountain."

http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/080820141

 

[Amsterhammer]

The People's Republic has conceded that they are surrounded in Donetsk, and they have asked for a truce........

 

[Amsterhammer]

Shock, horror.

The General Secretary of United Nations (UN) Ban Ki-Moon collaborated in secret with Israel and the United States to weaken the effects of a Board of Inquiry's report accusing Israel of human rights violations in Gaza in Dec. 2008 – Jan. 2009.

Wikileaks released documents on Friday that revealed that Ban wrote a letter to the UN Security Council asking its members not to take recommendations by the UN Board of Inquiry about Israeli bombings in Gaza into account.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/ne...ael-to-Undermine-UN-Report-20140809-0020.html

 

[Bustedknuckle]

A small beacon of good news.



http://rudaw.net/english/kurdistan/080820141

Target rich environment for USN TacAir..green ink!!

 

[blutto]

Target rich environment for USN TacAir..green ink!!

...yeah, yesterday they apparently tried bombing them with kindness...

"However, Iraqi officials said that much of the US aid had been “useless” because it was dropped from 15,000ft without parachutes and exploded on impact."

...reminds me of that wonderful old baseball saw....million dollar catch, 10 cent throw....

....from..
Source: Telegraph UK

By Jonathan Krohn, aboard an Iraqi Army helicopter on Mount Sinjar

8:00AM BST 10 Aug 2014

Mount Sinjar stinks of death. The few Yazidis who have managed to escape its clutches can tell you why. “Dogs were eating the bodies of the dead,” said *** Khedev Haydev, 65, who ran through the lines of Islamic State jihadists surrounding it.

On Sunday night, I became the first western journalist to reach the mountains where tens of thousands of Yazidis, a previously obscure Middle Eastern sect, have been taking refuge from the Islamic State forces that seized their largest town, Sinjar.

I was on board an Iraqi Army helicopter, and watched as hundreds of refugees ran towards it to receive one of the few deliveries of aid to make it to the mountain. The helicopter dropped water and food from its open gun bays to them as they waited below. General Ahmed Ithwany, who led the mission, told me: “It is death valley. Up to 70 per cent of them are dead.”

Two American aid flights have also made it to the mountain, where they have dropped off more than 36,000 meals and 7,000 gallons of drinking water to help the refugees, and last night two RAF C-130 transport planes were also on the way.

However, Iraqi officials said that much of the US aid had been “useless” because it was dropped from 15,000ft without parachutes and exploded on impact.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...lley.-Up-to-70-per-cent-of-them-are-dead.html

...one can only hope that the RAF is smart enough take a few moments from patting themselves on the back and remember to attach the parachutes...

Cheers

 

[blutto]

The People's Republic has conceded that they are surrounded in Donetsk, and they have asked for a truce........

...so given the already high death toll in this confrontation ( see below )

"On Friday, a Ukrainian parliamentary group reported that more than 10,000 people have been killed in Kiev’s offensive since April, a number far higher than earlier estimates."

(...from.. http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/08/was-putin-targeted-for-mid-air-assassination/ )

...and further, given the high moral ground from which the fascist scum in the National Guard operate ( the "folks" head manning the push into E Ukraine ) do you think the killing trend will continue and that there is the potential for a Gaza like conclusion to this...

...and the Parry article also has some interesting things to say about the MN 17 crash....specifically the following...

" Another curious development was the sudden resignation on Thursday of Andriy Parubiy as chief of Ukraine’s national security. A longtime neo-Nazi leader, Parubiy had organized and directed the paramilitary forces that spearheaded the putsch on Feb. 22 forcing Yanukovych and his government officials to flee for their lives.

Parubiy refused to explain his reason for quitting but some analysts believe it may have a connection to the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down, the source said. The U.S. intelligence analysts specifically said their evidence does not implicate Ukraine’s current President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, but they did not extend that clearance to the more extreme elements of the government, the source said."

Cheers

 

[python]

still fascinated by the proxy chess game taking place in ukraine, i was looking for articles as to what putin's end game might look like should the rebels fold...

it is hard to fathom that vlad, after investing so much, will just say, 'ok obama you won' and retire to lick his wounds. everything he did to-date, particularly his 3-day old eff u (announcing retaliatory sanctions on the west for the 1st time) suggest that he may have something up his sleeve.

what is it ?

personally, i think he counts on rebels endurance and that the quick degradation of humanitarian situation will force the west to hold ukis horses...i came across the following disturbing piece.
http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1416716

Stirol Chemical Plant Representative Warns against Ecological Disaster
If the attacks on the Ukrainian city of Horlivka continued, it could lead to an ecological disaster, said in a statement Pavel Brykov, the spokesman of Stirol chemical plant.
“Due to the irresponsible actions of the Ukrainian Army, the citizens of Ukraine, Russia and Belarus are in constant danger of an ecological disaster, the scale of which it is impossible to predict,” he said.
According to Brykov, if the plant is hit, it can lead to the spill of the so-called “blood poison”, mono nitrochlorobenzene, that will impact the area of 300 kilometers (186 miles) around the plant.
Stirol chemical plant is a potentially hazardous facility and one of the oldest enterprises of chemical branch in Ukraine. Horlivka and Stirol chemical plant have been under attacks over the past several weeks. Brykov said that the attacks continued every day and could be expected at any moment.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Iraq appoints new prime minister

Iraq’s speaker Haider al-Abadi has been asked to be Iraq’s new prime minister, according to his Facebook account.

It said he has been asked to form a governmetn by Iraq’s Kurdish president Fuad Masum.

Iraq’s supreme court has corrected a state TV report claiming it backed Nouri al-Maliki as prime minister.

Cue a power struggle in Baghdad while they try to form a functioning government.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

There is also the black box evidence. If two or even one Ukrainian jet followed this plane and shot it down, I assume this would be recorded. AFAIK, we haven’t heard any reports about what the black box does or doesn’t say.

It may reveal almost nothing.

KAL 007 was followed some time by four Soviet fighter jets, including one that flew past it (inadvertently), the Soviets also fired over 200 (non-incendiary) warning rounds past KAL 007. These may have not even been seen though due to darkness. Even after the first missile exploded some 50m behind the aircraft, the pilots still had no idea they were fired upon. They simply felt there was some sort of major problem causing rapid decompression. As a matter of fact, there was no indication what so ever on the CVR the pilots had any idea what had happened.

 

[Merckx index]

Steve Coll on the real reason we're helping the Kurds:

Obama’s defense of Erbil is effectively the defense of an undeclared Kurdish oil state whose sources of geopolitical appeal—as a long-term, non-Russian supplier of oil and gas to Europe, for example—are best not spoken of in polite or naïve company, as Al Swearengen would well understand.

Which seems to contradict what Obama told Tom Friedman in a recent interview:

The United States is not going to be the air force of Iraqi Shiites or any other faction.

 

[blutto]

....ahhh, could this be the breath of honesty about the situation in The Ukraine that we have all been waiting for?....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ukrainian TV channel financed by US openly calls for genocide of the people of east Ukraine.





So this is what the US advocates for and finances now. The new coup imposed government are nazis in Kiev folks...they always were.

http://en.voicesevas.ru/news/analyt...v-financed-by-the-us-and-the-netherlands.html




Transcript: “It’s perfectly simple. You need to kill 1.5 million people in Donbass”

Translated from Ukrainian by Valentina Lisitsa
Bogdan Boutkevitch: Ok, you ask me “How can this be happening?” Well, it happens because Donbass, in general, is not simply a region in a very depressed condition, it has got a whole number of problems, the biggest of which is that it is severely overpopulated with people nobody has any use for. Trust me I know perfectly well what I am saying.
If we take, for example, just the Donetsk oblast, there are approximately 4 million inhabitants, at least 1.5 million of which are superfluous. That’s what I mean: we don’t need to “understand” Donbass, we need to understand Ukrainian national interests.
Donbass must be exploited as a resource, which it is. I don’t claim to have a quick solution recipe, but the most important thing that must be done – no matter how cruel it may sound – is that there is a certain category of people that must be exterminated.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...or is it just business as usual in this latest of US backed pushes for democracy or whatever ( because frankly it doesn't sound that much different than some of the friends the US has had to play with in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria )

Cheers

 

[python]

So we have a very new and interesting dynamic in the Middle East... Almost insane, if you ask me to place the us democratic values position.

-The US is allied with the Islamic State to fight the despot in Syria.

- The US is militarily fighting the Islamic State in Iraq to save the innocent civilians
- The US all along has declared its support for a unitary state in the Iraq
- The US has just declared a day ago its support for a separatist Kurdish government in Iraq and backed it up with officially giving them weapons.
-The US officially condemned the israeli attacks on the Palestinian
-The US has just approved weapons for Israel....

I could go on with the examples of the double standard and the us duplicity in Eastern Europe.

These are well established facts!

Why the majority of sane people in Europe don't see that they are being abused by america to advance its own goals?

 

[ToreBear]

Steve Coll on the real reason we're helping the Kurds:



Which seems to contradict what Obama told Tom Friedman in a recent interview:

Nah it's not as simple as saying it's about oil. The US relations/interest with/in the Kurds started AFAIK in 1991. Saddam was killing his opponents, shia in the south and Kurds in the North. A no-fly zone was started to keep him from using his airforce for that purpose. Additionally, there were huge numbers of Kurds flooding Turkey. Turkey is a NATO country, and had huge trouble with it's kurdish population, so this could be a destabilizing factor. So by assisting the Kurds the US initially had two key self interests; 1. Keeping Saddam from taking control of Kurdish areas, hence weakening him and possibly helping to cause his overthrow. 2. Keep Turkey stable. And perhaps 3. protect the refugees.

During the 90s this was the policy. Then in 2003 the Kurds were valuable assistance in the the invasion of Iraq. During the last ten years, Kurdish Iraq has been a quiet oasis with tolerance for minorities. It has been a valuable and stabilizing factor. It has also achieved good relations with Turkey, wich is highly significant. Turkey(akp+) is also improving their relations with the Kurdish minority in Turkey, and working toward a peace deal with the Pkk.

The kurds have an interest in securing oil for their hoped for future state. Also they want to include Kirkuk wich has oil and was "seized" by sadam with a policy of "sunnifying" the originally Kurdish city. Due to the Iraqis not getting their oil law voted in(the version created by an Iraqi-Norwegian who also helped formulate Norwegian Oil policy in the 70s btw), the Kurds went ahead alone. In fact I think it was a Norwegian company who started working there first. Norway btw did not take part in the Invasion much to the disappointment of GWB.

Now US policy and European+Turkish is for Iraq to remain united, since the Kurds creating a state unleashes a whole new can of worms due to the Kurdish minorities in the neighboring countries.

It's been a longstanding policy of the US and most European nations to diversify the Energy suppliers for Europe. The US has been active in varying degrees since the 1970s. Less so in the 90s and a bit more the last 5 years. Europe has to some extent focused on this, but perhaps European wishful thinking has led to it not prioritizing diversification enough. The idea has been that mutual trade relations and cooperation will help Russia to become a modern country(as in leave their near abroad ideas behind etc.). This policy obviously proved a failure.

Now as far as diversification, there are several pipelines running through Turkey already, and some important ones to Azerbadjan. There is potential for gas to come from Azerbadjan/Turkmenistan, however it's commercial viability is based on long term contracts, which is difficult to see happening soon due to the political situation in the area. Possibly also from Iraq, but that requires greater stability and better governance since the biggest gas fields that I know about are not in Kurdish areas. Those poor people only got oil you see.

Personally I think the most sensible alternative is Iran. The problem is that the US has grudges against countries, and it's hard to work past that. (Cuba with the Sugar nationalization and Iran with the Hostage crisis). Bush really fvcked up the progress being made in the early 2000s with his axis of Evil policy. The Iranians were trending to more normal relations with the outside world until that idiotic speech. Now there is also the problem with the Sunni Shia/Saudi Iran "conflict" that complicates things. But really, Iran is a much more compatible nation with US/European values than Saudi Arabia.

So no, saying it's about oil is much too simple. Oil figures into the politics of most of the Middle east, but saying US did X because of oil reveals a too simplistic understanding of the various interests that govern nations, alliances and peoples. We can of course say that the US and the Worlds interest in the Middle East, and especially on the Persian Gulf area is about oil and gas. Had their been no oil/gas in the Region no one would care unless it caused trouble for the outside world. But there is Oil, the world needs oil, and the worlds continued supply of oil means the world has to be involved in the politics of the region.

Ps. Europe needs cheap gas(transported trough pipes), the oil can continue to come by ship.

 

[blutto]

....if the export item being discussed was broccoli and not oil ( or transportation of same ) the US of A would simply not give a rat's a$$ about any of the countries you mentioned ( and not invest the huge amounts of money, material, manpower, or political capital it has into those regions ) ...

...see below for an interesting look at the latest battle in the global economic system...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/08/12/my-moneys-on-putin/

"Russian politician and economist, Sergei Glazyev, summarized Moscow’s approach to the US-Russia conflagration in an essay titled “US is militarizing Ukraine to invade Russia.” Here’s an excerpt:


“To stop the war, you need to terminate its driving forces. At this stage, the war unfolds mainly in the planes of economic, public relations and politics. All the power of US economic superiority is based on the financial pyramid of debt, and this has gone long beyond sustainability. Its major lenders are collapsing enough to deprive the US market of accumulated US dollars and Treasury bonds. Of course, the collapse of the US financial system will cause serious losses to all holders of US currency and securities. But first, these losses for Russia, Europe and China will be less than the losses caused by American geopolitics unleashing another world war. Secondly, the sooner the exit from the financial obligations of this American pyramid, the less will be the losses. Third, the collapse of the dollar Ponzi scheme gives an opportunity, finally, to reform the global financial system on the basis of equity and mutual benefit.”

Washington thinks “modern warfare” involves covert support for proxy armies comprised of Neo Nazis and Islamic extremists. Moscow thinks modern warfare means undermining the enemy’s ability to wage war through sustained attacks on it’s currency, its institutions, its bond market, and its ability to convince its allies that it is a responsible steward of the global economic system."

....and here is the by 'all means necessary" card...

"Lehmann notes that he had a conversation with “a top-NATO admiral from a northern European country” who clarified the situation in a terse, two-sentence summary of US foreign policy. He said:


“American colleagues at the Pentagon told me, unequivocally, that the US and UK never would allow European – Soviet relations to develop to such a degree that they would challenge the US/UK’s political, economic or military primacy and hegemony on the European continent. Such a development will be prevented by all necessary means, if necessary by provoking a war in central Europe”.


Cheers

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

....if the export item being discussed was broccoli and not oil ( or transportation of same ) the US of A would simply not give a rat's *** about any of the countries you mentioned ( and not invest the huge amounts of money, material, manpower, or political capital it has into those regions ).

Correct, correct, and correct.

Many people didn't like him, or all his ideas, but Jimmy Carter was completely correct with his proposed energy policies back in 1979. Imagine if we had followed his lead, 35 years ago, and where we might be now...

 

[blutto]

Correct, correct, and correct.

Many people didn't like him, or all his ideas, but Jimmy Carter was completely correct with his proposed energy policies back in 1979. Imagine if we had followed his lead, 35 years ago, and where we might be now...

...yup...a longish article in the NYT Business Section during the early part of Carter's presidency was commenting on Carter's ideas and how they contrasted to other responses to the oil crisis of 73...

....the bottom line was the US did virtually nothing to cut down on oil consumption after 73 and consequently was importing huge quantities of oil which was very adversely affecting their balance of trade numbers....the article stated that if they had followed along the lines of the German response and been moderately successful in being more energy efficient they would have not had to import a drop of oil...and if they had gone the way the Japanese responded they would have been a significant net exporter of oil....

...Carter's ideas were more along the lines of the German model....this approach would have used existing fairly simple technology so it was really a no-brainer...and in the long run would have saved the country a pile of money that could have been invested in other more productive areas ( like the Germans did...technology...infra-structure...education... )...

...instead the US elected Mr. Potato-head who started the demolition of the American economic system ( in his first term the US went from being the #1 creditor nation in the world to the #1 debtor nation ....in large part due to energy imports...)

Cheers