World Politics

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Do you really believe Vlad wasn't involved?

Do you really believe???
Who actually believes Putin was involved? That is the question to be asked.

Not even the dumbest 3rd world dictator would murder an opponent this openly...

 

[python]

Do you really believe Vlad wasn't involved?

a frank answer - i don't know b/c until movingtarget posted about the assassination of nemtsov i had no faintest idea WHO nemtsov was...i looked him up in the wiki and goggled the news.

all i arrived at was that if a political critic was to be removed (keep in mind, i look at things - at the world, in fact - through the prizm of common sense and the practical cause/effect) it did not make any sense to kill the dude on the red square and, most importantly, a day before the official moscow march he was to head - a march of vlad's opponents.

my sense tells me that only a drunk or a deranged politician would imagine gaining from electrifying his enemies A DAY BEFORE they were to gather to denounce him.

forgot the latin term for the motivation - cosus belli (?) - does not fit.

otoh, a party interested in flaming the protesters against vlad would have a perfect cosus belli (sp?) my cause/affect mindset tells me.

i simply have no idea and the kgb, after all, may have come up with a scenario no westerner can figure provided the 'mysterious russians' are a real thing

 

[kingjr]

forgot the latin term for the motivation - cosus belli (?).

Almost: it's casus.

 

[del1962]

Gary Kasparov

Do not say stupidities about how this is bad for Putin, or that he wouldn't do this. Do not presume to tell a dictator his business.

Really it's a distraction to wonder what this latest murder "means" when the pattern is clear. Oppose Putin & your life is worth little.

 

[The Hitch]

do you think vlad was drunk when he decided to kill an opposition politician on no less than red square... roughly 100 meters from his kremlin headquarters ? or you think vlad did it himself with a super sniper weapon, you know, from a kremlin tower ?

Don't always check this thread but do you still believe that the US brought down that plane summer last year to pin on your hero Putin and that he had nothing to do with it, or have you matured a bit?

 

[The Hitch]

Do you really believe???
Who actually believes Putin was involved? That is the question to be asked.

Not even the dumbest 3rd world dictator would murder an opponent this openly...

A lot of evidence in Britain in recent weeks is pointing to Putin having been behind the murder of Alexander litvinienko here. In that context, maybe it's not the best idea to presume Putin wouldn't carry out an assassination at home when he had the gall to do it in central London

 

[python]

Gary Kasparov

you see, unlike the slain nobody nemtshov i never heard of, i did NOT have to google 'kasparov'..

as an active chess player and a follower of the chess history, including kasparov's brilliant chess carrier, i have an opinion on his political stuff.

specifically, he is an utter political failure both in chess politics and the anti-kremlin politics.

moreover, as it turned out, unlike nemtsov who lived and practiced his ideas in moscow, who walked everywhere w/o body guards, kasparov is an utter coward..explaining...he himself wrote many times about hiring more and more body guards and how it made sense for him to 'run'.

i don't blame a man for caring about his safety and 'running'. i just feel vary suspicious of a chap who tried to run for the head of the chess fed and who failed. he tried again and failed again. he blamed pro-putin 'elements' forgetting that to this day many elite players and chess insiders know him as a ruthless, egotistical person concerned only with propagating his own world view based on post-soviet grudges. many of those chess insiders disdain both him and putin but will always vote against 'gary'.

i see it this way. a brilliant chess player with the world class ego is out of his calling as a politician.

when he lost to a REAL world class politician with a world class ego, he developed a grudge. everything he did and say as an 'opposition politician' was aimed at the western media. what i hear from chess insiders, he is despised at 'home'.

 

[movingtarget]

you see, unlike the slain nobody nemtshov i never heard of, i did NOT have to google 'kasparov'..

as an active chess player and a follower of the chess history, including kasparov's brilliant chess carrier, i have an opinion on his political stuff.

specifically, he is an utter political failure both in chess politics and the anti-kremlin politics.

moreover, as it turned out, unlike nemtsov who lived and practiced his ideas in moscow, who walked everywhere w/o body guards, kasparov is an utter coward..explaining...he himself wrote many times about hiring more and more body guards and how it made sense for him to 'run'.

i don't blame a man for caring about his safety and 'running'. i just feel vary suspicious of a chap who tried to run for the head of the chess fed and who failed. he tried again and failed again. he blamed pro-putin 'elements' forgetting that to this day many elite players and chess insiders know him as a ruthless, egotistical person concerned only with propagating his own world view based on post-soviet grudges. many of those chess insiders disdain both him and putin but will always vote against 'gary'.

i see it this way. a brilliant chess player with the world class ego is out of his calling as a politician.

when he lost to a REAL world class politician with a world class ego, he developed a grudge. everything he did and say as an 'opposition politician' was aimed at the western media. what i hear from chess insiders, he is despised at 'home'.

Kasparov maybe a coward but at least he is a live one unlike many other Kremlin critics.

 

[python]

Don't always check this thread but do you still believe

good, b/c your worthless, out of topic contributions were not missed. and the one you just delivered is downright stupid. because - the subject is the the reasoning behind the assassination of an opposition leader, not the tragedy of the malayasian plane.

 

[movingtarget]

Quite a list

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/26467274/list-of-dead-kremlin-critics-grows-with-nemtsov-murder/

 

[python]

Kasparov maybe a coward but at least he is a live one unlike many other Kremlin critics.

i agree he is alive. but as a coward, real or perceived, his words dont gain much traction were he intends them to.

 

[The Hitch]

good, b/c your worthless, out of topic contributions were not missed. and the one you just delivered is downright stupid. because - the subject is the the reasoning behind the assassination of an opposition leader, not the tragedy of the malayasian plane.

The subject is world politics. I hate having to be the one who reminds you of this again, but despite your frequent attempts to act as one, you are not a moderator and do not get to decide what constitutes "world politics"

I remember in the summer you were convinced you had found evidence (from various corners of the internet) for proposterous theories that involved the US being behind the attack.

I was reminded of this at a speech I attended recently by Professor Timothy Snyder, renowned as one of the world's greatest historians of Eastern Europe, on the subject of the crisis in Russia, in which he mocked in a very serious tone people who believe theories like that and was understandably worried by the fact that people could reach such ridiculous conclusions in the face of all the evidence that actually exists, and that their vocalization of their intense stupidity allows Putin to get away with anything.

My mind immediately of course turned to you, and the theories you offered.

Your no comment answer is however encouraging. Though ironically for someone who just a few hours ago labelled Kasparov a "coward", you are too scared to answer a simple direct question on an internet forum, a far greater example of cowardice, it suggests you have seen just how ridiculous some of the things you posted were and are trying to pretend you never posted them.

 

[python]

you are too scared to answer a simple direct question on an internet forum, a far greater example of cowardice,

you are confusing someone who refused to take your stupid bait - a red herring about the issue that has died 100 pages ago about a malaysian plane tragedy with what was actually discussed - the political assassination.

that you bring this red herring to the specific discussion, trying to derail it and trying to make it personal throwing around labels that you have no idea about tells me of a person who has nothing to contribute about the ongoing subject or rather of a person who considers talking to himself a discussion.

again, post a reasonable, specific rebuttal as to why it made sense to kill an opposition leaders in the red square a day before the protest meeting, and you will be taken seriously.

until then, you are an blowhard intent on derailing a discussion.

 

[Hugh Januss]

You guys are funny, I have no idea what is going on here, nor do I believe have you.

 

[Echoes]

talking about Kasparov, I realised a few months ago that he believed in Fomenko's "recentist" theory. 1,000 years of our history never existed. The Middle-Ages...

I've seen some stupid conspiracy theories on the net. But that one ...


Edit: I see that Italian MP's are encouraging the recognition of a Palestinian state... What are the odds of a terrorist attack in Italy in the months to come?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

a frank answer - i don't know b/c until movingtarget posted about the assassination of nemtsov i had no faintest idea WHO nemtsov was...i looked him up in the wiki and goggled the news.

all i arrived at was that if a political critic was to be removed (keep in mind, i look at things - at the world, in fact - through the prizm of common sense and the practical cause/effect) it did not make any sense to kill the dude on the red square and, most importantly, a day before the official moscow march he was to head - a march of vlad's opponents.

my sense tells me that only a drunk or a deranged politician would imagine gaining from electrifying his enemies A DAY BEFORE they were to gather to denounce him.

forgot the latin term for the motivation - cosus belli (?) - does not fit.

otoh, a party interested in flaming the protesters against vlad would have a perfect cosus belli (sp?) my cause/affect mindset tells me.

i simply have no idea and the kgb, after all, may have come up with a scenario no westerner can figure provided the 'mysterious russians' are a real thing

Exactly and altho I doubt Vlad actually set this up, like Nixon and Watergate, he certainly knew of the plot. I suspect somebody in the lower levels of unofficial Russian 'government', decided this had to be done, and thought it would send a stern message(the wrong one) by doing the day before the anti-Putin rally, and in sight of the kremlin.

This is the stuff of mid-late 20th century USSR, something that Vlad would love to return to.

 

[blutto]

Exactly and altho I doubt Vlad actually set this up, like Nixon and Watergate, he certainly knew of the plot. I suspect somebody in the lower levels of unofficial Russian 'government', decided this had to be done, and thought it would send a stern message(the wrong one) by doing the day before the anti-Putin rally, and in sight of the kremlin.

This is the stuff of mid-late 20th century USSR, something that Vlad would love to return to.

...."I know that some Americans dislike them [Soviet domestic reforms] and I understand ... The Cold War was built on a kind of black-and-white, religious fundamentalism. ... which is one reason why you can't let go of the enemy image so easily".....

....from... https://books.google.ca/books?id=r6... america can't let go of the cold war&f=false

Cheers

 

[python]

Exactly and altho I doubt Vlad actually set this up, like Nixon and Watergate, he certainly knew of the plot. I suspect somebody in the lower levels of unofficial Russian 'government', decided this had to be done, and thought it would send a stern message(the wrong one) by doing the day before the anti-Putin rally, and in sight of the kremlin.

This is the stuff of mid-late 20th century USSR, something that Vlad would love to return to.

almost 3 days passed since the assignation. i read that the protest demonstration did take place as was planned in the middle of moscow. the authorities admitted to 21 thousand whilst the participants themselves said 50,000. when the authorities admit 20,000, you can be sure it was 50,000.
you can easily find the reports, it turned into a peaceful meeting of mourners...loud speeches, flaming oratory - but NO arrests.

did anything clear up since then as to who and why was behind ? b/c i was curious as to why would most western ambassadors PERSONALLY come to lay flowers to the local politician NOBODY heard of, i kept checking the news.

there are 2 opposite trends in the news...the westerm media keeps inflating the image of the slain, while the pro-vlad portals are picturing him as a convenient 'pro-system' figure head. his anti-vlad views were a fact enough, but he was not only feeling safe and given a regular spot in the tv debates with his opponents, he was an actual elected politician enjoying wide local support.

he was a phd scientist turned politician in his 20s and even was slated, some said, to become a pm under yeltsyn. some called him jewish, others called him a practicing russian orthodox...obviously, he could not be both.

one thing is clear, if anything, he was not, at least in the official view, at the level of vlad's critics or non-pliant oligarchs who were destined for a prison or a run abroad.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

almost 3 days passed since the assignation. i read that the protest demonstration did take place as was planned in the middle of moscow. the authorities admitted to 21 thousand whilst the participants themselves said 50,000. when the authorities admit 20,000, you can be sure it was 50,000.
you can easily find the reports, it turned into a peaceful meeting of mourners...loud speeches, flaming oratory - but NO arrests.

did anything clear up since then as to who and why was behind ? b/c i was curious as to why would most western ambassadors PERSONALLY come to lay flowers to the local politician NOBODY heard of, i kept checking the news.

there are 2 opposite trends in the news...the westerm media keeps inflating the image of the slain, while the pro-vlad portals are picturing him as a convenient 'pro-system' figure head. his anti-vlad views were a fact enough, but he was not only feeling safe and given a regular spot in the tv debates with his opponents, he was an actual elected politician enjoying wide local support.

he was a phd scientist turned politician in his 20s and even was slated, some said, to become a pm under yeltsyn. some called him jewish, others called him a practicing russian orthodox...obviously, he could not be both.

one thing is clear, if anything, he was not, at least in the official view, at the level of vlad's critics or non-pliant oligarchs who were destined for a prison or a run abroad.

Of COURSE Vlad will say he was small potatoes, inconsequential, not worth my time BUT by golly, Vlad will "investigate thoroughly". Funny how Vlad doesn't 'investigate thoroughly' other murders of small time 'complainers'.

Vlad is Stalin without the bad teeth.

 

[blutto]

Vlad is Stalin without the bad teeth.

...you really have no idea do you?....

Cheers

 

[Bustedknuckle]

...you really have no idea do you?....

Cheers

So Vlad has dental problems too?

His teeth are the least of his problems.

 

[python]

a very curious article in der spiegel:
(german)

Verbrechen der Sieger
(crimes of the victor)
https://magazin.spiegel.de/digital/?utm_source=spon&utm_campaign=centerpage#SP/2015/10/132040368

the author, a serious historian, challenges the rosy image painted by the western media of the american soldiers giving away gifts in post ww2 germany.

unlike a widely spread opinion that only the 'eastern asitics' ruled by the wild dictator with horrible teeth (curtsey of bustedknuckles) engaged in mass rapes, the author claims 190,000 rapes by american soldiers in the immediate months post ww2.

the article claims, the official records of the american military authorities contain 11,000 violent sexual crimes through nov. 1945 (hope i translated it right)

a personal comment:
11,000 vs 190,000 does constitute a serious disparity. but considering the natural disinclination of military prosecuting their own crimes, i'd give the historian's estimate some credence. curiously, iirc, an english military historian i read a while back, estimated stalin's rapes at 1 million. sad stats

 

[blutto]

So Vlad has dental problems too?

His teeth are the least of his problems.

....oh my gosh isn't fundamentalism grand ( Volume 564,398 in a continuing series....)...though truth be known it does induce a serious case of myopia....or put another way, history is a wonderful thing but relying on it entirely when moving forward is like driving down a highway using only the rear view mirror for direction...

Cheers

 

[hrotha]

While the author might well have concluded that the number of rape cases commonly attributed to US forces in Germany was grossly underestimated, I wouldn't say people thought only Soviet forces engaged in large-scale rape throughout Germany.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

a very curious article in der spiegel:
(german)

Verbrechen der Sieger
(crimes of the victor)
https://magazin.spiegel.de/digital/?utm_source=spon&utm_campaign=centerpage#SP/2015/10/132040368

the author, a serious historian, challenges the rosy image painted by the western media of the american soldiers giving away gifts in post ww2 germany.

unlike a widely spread opinion that only the 'eastern asitics' ruled by the wild dictator with horrible teeth (curtsey of bustedknuckles) engaged in mass rapes, the author claims 190,000 rapes by american soldiers in the immediate months post ww2.

the article claims, the official records of the american military authorities contain 11,000 violent sexual crimes through nov. 1945 (hope i translated it right)

a personal comment:
11,000 vs 190,000 does constitute a serious disparity. but considering the natural disinclination of military prosecuting their own crimes, i'd give the historian's estimate some credence. curiously, iirc, an english military historian i read a while back, estimated stalin's rapes at 1 million. sad stats

I guess that's as bad as the murders committed by Stalin, the horror of Hitler and Nazi germany or the barbaric acts of the japanese. Before and during WWII. Hmmmm, maybe not.

Funny that a german is trying to throw stones at post WWII USA, I thought the victors wrote the history. But Hitler was Austrian, after all.

Of course, the US could have scrapped the Marshall plan and Europe, particularly Germany, would be a third or fourth world nation. Or better yet, a US Protectorate, like Guam..