World Politics

[python]

blutto, i used to include the bbc world news link (as an rss feed) among the 30 or so news sources i review 3-4 times a day. its a list compiled of what i consider worthy a quick look re. the political/international happenings in all major european languages...

sorry for being so direct and my apologies to the oversensitive british members, but i came to a firm conclusion that the bbc is, yep, garbage. took me several years and now you will never see me quoting them, b/c i stopped wasting my time on them.

the only british source i care for now on a daily basis is the guardian, though i do occasionally peruse the fn and the economist.

couldn't agree more on the rest of your post.
---

edit: oops, in the interest of a complete intellectual honesty i just tried to reflect if i indeed never linked to the bbc. if memory serves, sorry, i may have once...to mock their investigative double standard. then, they first published an independent report on the mh17 crash in ukraine unfavorable to the putsch leader to only scrap it hours later b/c it did not fit the editorial room narrative.

 

[blutto]

Re:

blutto, i used to include the bbc world news link (as an rss feed) among the 30 or so news sources i review 3-4 times a day. its a list compiled of what i consider worthy a quick look re. the political/international happenings in all major european languages...

sorry for being so direct and my apologies to the oversensitive british members, but i came to a firm conclusion that the bbc is, yep, garbage. took me several years and now you will never see me quoting them, b/c i stopped wasting my time on them.

the only british source i care for now on a daily basis is the guardian, though i do occasionally peruse the fn and the economist.

couldn't agree more on the rest of your post.
---

edit: oops, in the interest of a complete intellectual honesty i just tried to reflect if i indeed never linked to the bbc. if memory serves, sorry, i may have once...to mock their investigative double standard. then, they first published an independent report on the mh17 crash in ukraine unfavorable to the putsch leader to only scrap it hours later b/c it did not fit the editorial room narrative.

....to the bolded....yeah that seems to be their standard operating procedure these days, to make the stuff they publish fit a narrative, not unlike the Hillbilly Post and the New York Trash which trade on their "reputations" while serving up thinly disguised propaganda....

Cheers

 

[movingtarget]

UN Outraged As They Should Be

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/20/un-aid-convoy-attack-syria-us-russia

 

[blutto]

Re:

UN Outraged As They Should Be

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/20/un-aid-convoy-attack-syria-us-russia

....my favourite part...

The US officials said there was no doubt the convoy was destroyed in an airstrike and that western coalition forces had no role in it.

“There are only three parties that fly in Syria: the coalition, the Russians and the Syrian regime. It was not the coalition. We don’t fly over Aleppo. We have no reason to. We strike only Isis, and Isis is not there. We would leave it to the Russians and the Syrian regime to explain their actions,” said Capt Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman

....except when we totally fcuk up and bomb the other guys....or when we actually bomb the other guys to help ISIS.....and now bomb the convoy to take pressure created by the bad press about the earlier bombing....

....and my second fave....

US defence officials now believe that Russian planes dropped the bombs that destroyed a UN aid convoy that killed at least 20 people, the Guardian has learned.

The claim of direct Russian involvement in the bombing, if confirmed, would have far-reaching consequences. Earlier on Tuesday, Ban Ki-moon used his farewell address to the UN general assembly to denounce it as a “sickening, savage and apparently deliberate attack”, describing the bombers at “cowards”, and UN officials have said it is a potential war crime

....so the story so far...unnamed officials now "believe" something that has not been confirmed....but we are going to slime the Putin gang anyway ( full disclosure, I "believe" in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny ...)...

.....and btw my sources tell me the bombing was actually done by North Korea specialistical forces using invisible aircraft, so there !.....details to follow as they become fabricated, errr, available....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re:

UN Outraged As They Should Be

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/20/un-aid-convoy-attack-syria-us-russia

....btw here is another article on the issue....where we find....

Shouting for survivors amid the flaming ruins of lorries, the aid worker was panicking. “It’s September 19 and we have just been attacked by planes,” he yelled as men called frantically for help from the darkness

....and....

A rescue worker told Associated Press that missiles pounded the area for hours, even hitting his team as they searched the debris for survivors. Hussein Badawi, who leads the Syrian Civil Defence, also known as the White Helmets, in Orem al-Kubra, said the strikes came from helicopters and land-based missiles

....a little background on the White Helmets....they were set up by a British security consultant, they operate in rebels areas ( and we all know how "accommodating" the rebels are to non-believers ), and their major financial backer is a US government agency which has a long history of being used covertly to facilitate US political and military initiatives...and btw the White Helmets have this incredible ability to be at the scene of every "government" "atrocity" with video cameras blazing ( oddly enough they are really not so good at video taping ISIS atrocities, like burning non-believers with flame throwers and such )....

....so the story so far...convoy bombed for hours and hours by aircraft, helicopters, and land based missiles...gosh that must have been one incredibly strategic convoy to be the target of that amount of ordinance....

Cheers

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

blutto, i used to include the bbc world news link (as an rss feed) among the 30 or so news sources i review 3-4 times a day. its a list compiled of what i consider worthy a quick look re. the political/international happenings in all major european languages...

sorry for being so direct and my apologies to the oversensitive british members, but i came to a firm conclusion that the bbc is, yep, garbage. took me several years and now you will never see me quoting them, b/c i stopped wasting my time on them.

the only british source i care for now on a daily basis is the guardian, though i do occasionally peruse the fn and the economist.

couldn't agree more on the rest of your post.
---

edit: oops, in the interest of a complete intellectual honesty i just tried to reflect if i indeed never linked to the bbc. if memory serves, sorry, i may have once...to mock their investigative double standard. then, they first published an independent report on the mh17 crash in ukraine unfavorable to the putsch leader to only scrap it hours later b/c it did not fit the editorial room narrative.

The sad thing in my opinion is..... here in Merikah the BBC in its current state is better than anything we have here! Says a great deal about our "media".

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

blutto, i used to include the bbc world news link (as an rss feed) among the 30 or so news sources i review 3-4 times a day. its a list compiled of what i consider worthy a quick look re. the political/international happenings in all major european languages...

sorry for being so direct and my apologies to the oversensitive british members, but i came to a firm conclusion that the bbc is, yep, garbage. took me several years and now you will never see me quoting them, b/c i stopped wasting my time on them.

the only british source i care for now on a daily basis is the guardian, though i do occasionally peruse the fn and the economist.

couldn't agree more on the rest of your post.
---

edit: oops, in the interest of a complete intellectual honesty i just tried to reflect if i indeed never linked to the bbc. if memory serves, sorry, i may have once...to mock their investigative double standard. then, they first published an independent report on the mh17 crash in ukraine unfavorable to the putsch leader to only scrap it hours later b/c it did not fit the editorial room narrative.

The sad thing in my opinion is..... here in Merikah the BBC in its current state is better than anything we have here! Says a great deal about our "media".

....the destruction of the critical function of the Western major media channels is one the tragedies of the last couple of decades....and upon which a score of other tragedies have been leveraged on....wagging the dog is now SOP....

Cheers

 

[python]

Re: Re:

The sad thing in my opinion is..... here in Merikah the BBC in its current state is better than anything we have here! Says a great deal about our "media".

....the destruction of the critical function of the Western major media channels is one the tragedies of the last couple of decades....and upon which a score of other tragedies have been leveraged on....wagging the dog is now SOP....

Cheers

i hear you both, but quite frankly, i would not know if the bbc is worse or better than the cnn or fox or msn or even the ny times...i simply dont bother to read or listen to them. if i did read anything from those sources it would be a link in these threads i would foolishly click on or occasionally an email from a friend...

i dont know exactly where and when the western msm troubles started. it would probably be an interesting project to delve in one day. lacking a historical perspective like blutto, i simply view what i am served as news or reports based on its immediate content quality in terms adding to my knowledge base. that is, whether the authors cared to refer to credible sources, whether they were diligent in their research, if they cared to balance a complicated or a complex issue based on an angle differing from the editorial or their partisan leaning. and let me be clear, THE PRESENCE of an editorial or a partisan line in a publication is as normal as any human holding a view. i simply mind zealotry served as a difference of opinions. for instance, the new yorker magazine imo while clearly dem-leaning comes across to me as an intellectually acceptable read.

in one word, i crave and demand what some would call an investigative journalism, but to me - it is simply what a journalism ought to be - responsible, professional, intellectually honest, respectful... if the problem is that my bar is too high, i am willing to ignore everything that does not meet my bar and pay the price in expending my time and resources in search of a better product.

why did the western msm went south ? as i said, i'd love one day to answer my own question, but what seems already clear it has a lot to do with the GENERAL deterioration of what the public demands, willing to pay for or itself represents in terms of shallowing societal values and the frantic individualism and consumerism..

in one word, the general corruption of the west's values and institution, the msm being a part, could be the bigger reason. too bad most people in the west dont or cant see it and still believe in the superiority of our system.

 

[djpbaltimore]

The Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, has told his counterparts attending this week’s meeting that Russia had been conducting aerial surveillance of the convoy to the Aleppo countryside.

Why the need to monitor a UN convoy? The Russian response is getting increasingly ridiculous.

The Russian authorities have offered several different explanations for the destruction of 18 Syrian Red Crescent trucks laden with UN food and medicine on Monday evening at Urem al-Kubra, in a rebel-held rural area of Aleppo governorate. They suggested they could have been attacked by rebels, or that the vehicles could have caught fire on their own without an external cause, and later claimed that the trucks were accompanied by a rebel vehicle with a mortar mounted on it.

:lol: Now they are just trolling....

A western official likened the succession of Moscow’s different descriptions of the convoy bombing to the various Russian accounts of the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 by a ground to air missile over Ukraine in 2014. “It’s the same thing – throwing out chaff and hoping some of it works,” the official said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/21/syria-un-aid-airstrike-russia-boris-johnson

 

[python]

it may be that the us air force just commuted another blunder days after they admitted the 'unintentionally' masscaring the syrians troops.

US 'Predator' attack drone was spotted around at the time of UN convoy attack US Air Force
https://www.sott.net/article/328864-US-Predator-attack-drone-was-spotted-around-at-the-time-of-UN-convoy-attack-US-Air-Force

interesting ? why would the us need an attack drone around the un convoy ?

could it be the same reasons they flew the cute attack gadget over some hospitals and weddings, you know, to drop flowers but 'mistakenly' incinerated dozens of innocent civilians ? we know these facts b/c the us admitted after the public outrage.

 

[movingtarget]

It's hard to know what to believe in the era of disinformation but the Syrians have shown in the past that they could not care less about humanitarian aid getting through with previous attempts being blocked. I think this this was a deliberate attack from the Syrians to get up the nose of the USA and also to derail the peace talks which were not going to work anyway. Just a gut reaction. The bombing of MSF hospitals in the Middle East over the years even when they have supplied GPS coordinates to avoid such bombings makes me think that humanitarian aid in any form means nothing as far as being neutral and safe goes. If it was ISIS being wiped out in large numbers of course they would all put their hands up to claim responsibility.

 

[blutto]

Re:

it may be that the us air force just commuted another blunder days after they admitted the 'unintentionally' masscaring the syrians troops.

US 'Predator' attack drone was spotted around at the time of UN convoy attack US Air Force
https://www.sott.net/article/328864-US-Predator-attack-drone-was-spotted-around-at-the-time-of-UN-convoy-attack-US-Air-Force

interesting ? why would the us need an attack drone around the un convoy ?

could it be the same reasons they flew the cute attack gadget over some hospitals and weddings, you know, to drop flowers but 'mistakenly' incinerated dozens of innocent civilians ? we know these facts b/c the us admitted after the public outrage.

....you are just being conspiratorial aren't you ?....everybody knows the US of A is exceptional and practices only humanitarian intervention of the highest standards....ok ok ok some hospitals got hit, but those were just honest mistakes, yeah that's the ticket, just honest mistakes....and yeah a couple of wars went very badly and they busted a couple of countries but good....but I read some where they had good intentions, really good intentions and in the end that is all that matters....

...ok seriously, The Guardian's story has changed how many times ?....first it was two planes that pounded the position for two hours, but, but, two planes don't carry that much ordinance.....then it was helicopters....then its was land based missiles....and then planes, helicopters and missiles.....and then there are the unconfirmed reports from unnamed sources and/or the bloggers in pajamas and/or groups sponsored by a US government agency with a long history of doing covert missions .....but the end result is always the same it was evil Putin....lord thundering jaysus !!!!....its a good thing most news is in a digital format because a printed edition done on thin sheets of paper just couldn't carry that much $h!t, it would just disintegrate, or if the crap was really from a toxic source burst into flames...

...but really good timing given the recent honest bombing mistake and the upcoming presidential debate....

Cheers

 

[djpbaltimore]

Obviously the US has done reprehensible things even in the very recent past. But that doesn't give Russia license to do some very reprehensible things in Syria right now like bombing the UN convoy.

Mahmoud Abu Zaid, a relief worker, told the BBC’s Newsnight program:
“What happened was—almost two hours before the bombing we heard and saw a drone, as soon as the regime announced the end of the ceasefire. I had concerns that it would start bombing, because it flew over us for a long time. After two hours the helicopter came and dropped the first barrel bomb. After half a minute it dropped two barrel bombs together, afterwards there were six air strikes by the military jets. Then the jets with guns launched an attack. Afterwards the helicopters came back dropping barrel bombs, and then the jet with guns came back and started firing.”

The sounds of jets and automatic cannon fire, probably from Mi-24 Hind helicopter gunships, are distinctly audible. We can also see explosions from bomb or missile strikes.
Mohammed Rasoul, who is credited by the AP for the Aleppo 24 News video of the attack, told the agency that the attack began “around 20 minutes after sunset” and continued for two hours.

In these images we can clearly see the crushed tail fin of a Russian-made OFAB 250-270 high explosive fragmentation bomb in a crater in the SARC warehouse.

Swanson went on to tell BuzzFeed’s Mike Giglio that approval for the convoy had come “directly from coordination in face-to-face meetings in Damascus with the regime.”
But there is worse: Russian drones were publicly monitoring the convoy immediately before the air strikes began.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/21/this-is-how-russia-bombed-the-un-convoy.html

 

[python]

you are disappointing, djp.

when someone uses the mutually dependent but logically mutually exclusive terms like 'probably' followed by 'distinctly heard' it tells me the one quoting the the logical fallacy to arrive at some significant conclusions isn't to be taken seriously in terms of their scientific background. granted, i've seen a lot of crap calling itself science and strangely owning the legit papers. your logic is crap, djp.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Those two degrees of certainty are referring to two totally different claims. An individual can be certain that they are hearing a jet engine without knowing with total certainly what type of jet is making the noise. That seems self-explanatory to me. The evidence points to Russia orchestrating this attack no matter how much you try to deflect away from the main issue by insulting me. If it quacks like a duck.....

Russia shouldn't be given a free pass because the US does bad things too.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Those two degrees of certainty are referring to two totally different claims. An individual can be certain that they are hearing a jet engine without knowing with total certainly what type of jet is making the noise. That seems self-explanatory to me. The evidence points to Russia orchestrating this attack no matter how much you try to deflect away from the main issue by insulting me. If it quacks like a duck.....

Russia shouldn't be given a free pass because the US does bad things too.

Can't we all just agree that the Americans and Russians need to keep their stinky paws out of Syria, among other places?

The Americans created the Middle East mess over the past couple decades, first with Afghanistan, then Iraq (technically twice, 1991 and then 2003-), Libya and now Syria.

The Russians are not going to help matters by continuing where the Americans left (really, they didn't leave, but Russia came to the aid of Assad and the Syrian government in trying to defeat ISIS).

Bombing the snot out of an already, MASSIVELY damaged country isn't going to help. Not sure how anybody can win there.

Essentially, two wrongs don't make a right.

Just my two cents.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Agreed. What has happened in Syria is a real tragedy.

 

[blutto]

Re:

Obviously the US has done reprehensible things even in the very recent past. But that doesn't give Russia license to do some very reprehensible things in Syria right now like bombing the UN convoy.

Mahmoud Abu Zaid, a relief worker, told the BBC’s Newsnight program:
“What happened was—almost two hours before the bombing we heard and saw a drone, as soon as the regime announced the end of the ceasefire. I had concerns that it would start bombing, because it flew over us for a long time. After two hours the helicopter came and dropped the first barrel bomb. After half a minute it dropped two barrel bombs together, afterwards there were six air strikes by the military jets. Then the jets with guns launched an attack. Afterwards the helicopters came back dropping barrel bombs, and then the jet with guns came back and started firing.”

The sounds of jets and automatic cannon fire, probably from Mi-24 Hind helicopter gunships, are distinctly audible. We can also see explosions from bomb or missile strikes.
Mohammed Rasoul, who is credited by the AP for the Aleppo 24 News video of the attack, told the agency that the attack began “around 20 minutes after sunset” and continued for two hours.

In these images we can clearly see the crushed tail fin of a Russian-made OFAB 250-270 high explosive fragmentation bomb in a crater in the SARC warehouse.

Swanson went on to tell BuzzFeed’s Mike Giglio that approval for the convoy had come “directly from coordination in face-to-face meetings in Damascus with the regime.”
But there is worse: Russian drones were publicly monitoring the convoy immediately before the air strikes began.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/21/this-is-how-russia-bombed-the-un-convoy.html

....you forgot this bit....as mentioned before those White Helmets have this uncanny ability to video tape atrocities ( they did the Gouta false flag didn't they )....and btw are paid/sponsored by a US government agency ( the group that I mentioned does a lot of covert US government work )...read, not what one would call a neutral party or source....but the Western coverage really leverages their stories off their statements, and as do you....and as python pointed out, and your posts on this confirm, for a scientist you have a surprisingly uncritical mind....history would just overwhelm you....

Hussein Badawi, head of the Urem al-Kubra branch of Syrian Civil Defense (known as the White Helmets), told the Associated Press that he could hear helicopters, fighter jets and ballistic missiles overhead

Cheers

 

[djpbaltimore]

The people who see no wrong with what Russia are doing are just as illogical as those who see Russia as the root of all evil. There is whole section on the left who suffer from that former massive blind spot. Coming to a conclusion despite the evidence is the very definition of unscientific thinking. The US had zero reason to bomb that convoy and their allies did not have the means. OTOH, the Syrians and Russians had the means, motive, and opportunity to bomb that convoy. Maybe they can release their surveillance mission to defend themselves, showing that crazy example of spontaneous combustion. I am not holding my breath.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Agreed. What has happened in Syria is a real tragedy.

The real tragedy is the so called alliance between Russia and the USA. It has made a complex messy situation even worse and then you have Turkey dipping it's foot in the waters when it feels like it. Eventually a US President will decide to let a country sort out it's own problems and stop thinking it has to be the world's policeman. Russia is there for it's own reasons more to do with Putin's role on the world stage. I think if the USA sat on it's hands more then the UN would be forced to make changes to itself and the role it's UN forces take. But I sometimes wonder how things would look without US intervention. Of course ISIS form a different challenge to usual and it's treatment of minorities virtually assured USA intervention as no one else was going to do anything.

 

[blutto]

Re:

The people who see no wrong with what Russia are doing are just as illogical as those who see Russia as the root of all evil. There is whole section on the left who suffer from that former massive blind spot. Coming to a conclusion despite the evidence is the very definition of unscientific thinking. The US had zero reason to bomb that convoy and their allies did not have the means. OTOH, the Syrians and Russians had the means, motive, and opportunity to bomb that convoy. Maybe they can release their surveillance mission to defend themselves, showing that crazy example of spontaneous combustion. I am not holding my breath.

....a few words about what you would consider motive would certainly strengthen your case here....and who are those allies who didn't have the means....they most certainly had those means when they blew that very strategic Syrian position to bits several days ago ( you know the one " The US had zero reason to bomb " )....or are you saying that ISIS and the other jihadist groups are US allies, after all they certainly didn't have the means to engage in aerial bombardment....

....and that coming to a conclusion thingee .....you may have missed this salient point, even though it has been repeated several times, the evidence that you are using to draw your conclusions comes from sources that are either far removed from the incident or bought and paid for by the actors making the accusation....and that in most scientific circles would be considered rather shoddy thinking verging on sheer incompetence....

Cheers

 

[python]

vlad vladich just asked john kerry to count how many inches fit into his middle finger.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-idUSKCN11S1C5?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29
and why not ? when the johnny boy yesterday whined that he lives in a parallel universe with vladich, he did not explain why in his universe the us should be allowed to illegally fly and bomb the crap out of anything they see or dont see, and why the syrian and russian planes should seize flying ? nor johnny explained if the no-fly plea was part of their deal with russia, tsssss...be quiet peeps , b/c it is a big secret the u told russia to keep.

is johnny really that stupid to ask for a one-sided disarmament in return for nothing ?

 

[djpbaltimore]

Starving out the rebels has been a strategy utilized by the Syrians to get bargaining power. The US had zero reason to attack the convoy as a successful ceasefire and humanitarian mission was in their best interests by far. John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence to support their involvement IMO. Plus there is the veritable smoking gun of the Russian bomb in the blast crater that I quoted above. When a false flag operation that serves neither the US or rebels' best interests is your best argument, you have none IMO.

Trying to pick at a thread or two does not unravel the whole tapestry. And the picture is pretty clear that the Russians bombed the convoy. Putting forward an explanation that it spontaneously burst into flames cemented that opinion in my mind. They also lied about their own drone being in the vicinity. If your military does a mission that you can't claim responsibility, that says a lot about the dirty nature of the mission.

 

[blutto]

Re:

Starving out the rebels has been a strategy utilized by the Syrians to get bargaining power. The US had zero reason to attack the convoy as a successful ceasefire and humanitarian mission was in their best interests by far. John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence to support their involvement IMO. Plus there is the veritable smoking gun of the Russian bomb in the blast crater that I quoted above. When a false flag operation that serves neither the US or rebels' best interests is your best argument, you have none IMO.

Trying to pick at a thread or two does not unravel the whole tapestry. And the picture is pretty clear that the Russians bombed the convoy. Putting forward an explanation that it spontaneously burst into flames cemented that opinion in my mind. They also lied about their own drone being in the vicinity. If your military does a mission that you can't claim responsibility, that says a lot about the dirty nature of the mission.

....at the very least it allows folks like yourself to blather on about evil Putin....read, just more fodder for the PR machine.....evil, evil, evil, evil, Putin....USA, great, awesome, always right, exceptional, blessed, beyond reproach.....

Cheers

 

[djpbaltimore]

You know your opponent is getting desperate when they erect such a poor straw man argument that it can be refuted by reading just a few posts above. Good grief.....

If you can't recognize when your side does wrong (as the USA has done in the ME for ages), you are the one who is a slave to ideology.