World Politics

[Bustedknuckle]

Le Pen was never going to win this, which is a pity, not because I wanted her to win, but because I wanted to see Macron get all 'spooled up,' as Semper says, and blame his loss on Putin and cyber attacks. Well, now he's going to talk to the man that he accused of hacking his campaign face to face. Let's see if Vlad the Putster will be able to keep a straight face. A few days ago it was Merkel that wasted precious airspace to visit Vlad in Moscow and tell the world that he was hacking German elections. Can't wait to see how Finch's trip to the Kremlin goes!

The other issue is voter turnout. In the US, even with an idiot like trump, only about 62-63% voted. So...over 70% of the voting public DIDN'T vote for adolf. Big turnout favored Macron..many votes were anti-LePenn. If the lazy voters of the US had come out, adolf would have lost with his small, 40% base.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Le Pen was never going to win this, which is a pity, not because I wanted her to win, but because I wanted to see Macron get all 'spooled up,' as Semper says, and blame his loss on Putin and cyber attacks. Well, now he's going to talk to the man that he accused of hacking his campaign face to face. Let's see if Vlad the Putster will be able to keep a straight face. A few days ago it was Merkel that wasted precious airspace to visit Vlad in Moscow and tell the world that he was hacking German elections. Can't wait to see how Finch's trip to the Kremlin goes!

The other issue is voter turnout. In the US, even with an idiot like trump, only about 62-63% voted. So...over 70% of the voting public DIDN'T vote for adolf. Big turnout favored Macron..many votes were anti-LePenn. If the lazy voters of the US had come out, adolf would have lost with his small, 40% base.

Still bitter I see. Anything gets you spooled up these days.
In your own words...."just a little ole bike forum" "go out and get a ride in".

 

[Brullnux]

Le Pen was never going to win this, which is a pity, not because I wanted her to win, but because I wanted to see Macron get all 'spooled up,' as Semper says, and blame his loss on Putin and cyber attacks. Well, now he's going to talk to the man that he accused of hacking his campaign face to face. Let's see if Vlad the Putster will be able to keep a straight face. A few days ago it was Merkel that wasted precious airspace to visit Vlad in Moscow and tell the world that he was hacking German elections. Can't wait to see how Finch's trip to the Kremlin goes!

The other issue is voter turnout. In the US, even with an idiot like trump, only about 62-63% voted. So...over 70% of the voting public DIDN'T vote for adolf. Big turnout favored Macron..many votes were anti-LePenn. If the lazy voters of the US had come out, adolf would have lost with his small, 40% base.

Turnout was the lowest in many, many years. France is not the USA. They actually like voting.

 

[aphronesis]

Sunce '69. The reasons for which are more straightforward I'd think.

 

[patricknd]

Le Pen was never going to win this, which is a pity, not because I wanted her to win, but because I wanted to see Macron get all 'spooled up,' as Semper says, and blame his loss on Putin and cyber attacks. Well, now he's going to talk to the man that he accused of hacking his campaign face to face. Let's see if Vlad the Putster will be able to keep a straight face. A few days ago it was Merkel that wasted precious airspace to visit Vlad in Moscow and tell the world that he was hacking German elections. Can't wait to see how Finch's trip to the Kremlin goes!

The other issue is voter turnout. In the US, even with an idiot like trump, only about 62-63% voted. So...over 70% of the voting public DIDN'T vote for adolf. Big turnout favored Macron..many votes were anti-LePenn. If the lazy voters of the US had come out, adolf would have lost with his small, 40% base.

Turnout might have been higher if the voters had a decent choice.

 

[Jagartrott]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/08/macron-hackers-linked-to-russian-affiliated-group-behind-us-attack

"New York’s Flashpoint and Tokyo-based Trend Micro have shared intelligence that suggests that the hacking group known variously as Advanced Persistent Threat 28, Fancy Bear and Pawn Storm was responsible. The group has been linked with the GRU, the Russian military intelligence directorate."

Take from that what you want.

 

[blutto]

....Pepe on Emmanuel Clinton and change France can believe in...

http://www.atimes.com/article/emmanuel-clinton-revolt-elites/

Cheers

 

[ToreBear]

Fancy Bears is such a cool name for a hacker group. A Russian GRU group at that. With all the problems gays have in Russia, this group just seems out of place. :lol:

Anyway, I wonder if the Macron hacking might lead to a tightening of sanctions against Russia. It certainly would make sense.

 

[blutto]

....some nice light morning reading for use all....

May 10, 2017
The Extremists Did Win in France

by Aidan O'Brien

Hillary Clinton may have lost in America but she won in France. If the Russians were able to determine the American vote: why the hell weren’t they able to fix the vote in a third rate country like France? Maybe Russia isn’t the evil genius it’s made out to be in the West. Maybe it’s just the West.

We’re supposed to be happy that the neofascist lost. We’re supposed to be over the moon that the Euro and the European Union is feeling stronger today. We’re supposed to be dancing in the streets because liberal democracy is the king of France. But apart from the 1% and their market mad media no one else is euphoric. The victory of liberalism in Paris feels like a defeat.

In 2002 there was a real sense of relief when Le Pen senior lost to Chirac. But now in 2017 the loss of Le Pen junior feels diabolically different. The world has changed a lot in the last 15 years. In the race to kill all the people and to kill all the planet liberalism has overtaken fascism. Right now it’s liberalism rather than fascism which is the greatest danger facing humanity.

Most western progressives however are stuck in the 1930s. They see Hitler everywhere. They’re still fighting the Spanish Civil War! Their advice – the advice of Noam Chomsky in America and Yanis Varoufakis in Europe – is to always follow the example of the 1930s and form something like a united front against fascism. In today’s elections that means joining up with the liberals so as to keep out the extremists.

But who are the extremists? Who are today’s psychopathic killers and psychopathic slave-drivers? Since 2002 it has been the advocates of liberalism. The fascists don’t even come close. The forces of “individual freedom” have given us the on-going holocaust in the Middle East. And the champions of the “free market” have more respect for Guantanamo Bay prisoners than they do for the international working class.

And who are the racists? Right before our eyes we are seeing one genocide and seeing the preparation for two or three more. The Arabs – this instant – are being burnt alive. And the Koreans, Russians and Chinese are next in line. And the Africans and Latin Americans? No one cares anymore about those subhumans! The fascists are not responsible for this “divide, kill, starve and rule” global agenda. On the contrary it is the lovable liberals who are masterminding this – the final solution to the White Man’s Burden.

In the beautifully young face of Macron we see the beautifully young faces of Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Barack Obama. We see another glamorous marketing trick but feel the same old class agenda. Western capitalism über alles and “sink or swim” for the rest of us. It’s a stale vision of hell that belongs to past centuries.

Make no mistake about Macron: he is a nihilistic imperialist. In all the talk about him that’s the missing word -“imperialism”. However as an ex-investment banker (an ex-employee of the Rothschild mafia) he knows the the fundamental need of investors: imperialism. That’s what should concern us now. It goes unmentioned in the mainstream madhouse but Macron adds momentum to the drive for foreign wars and genocides. Forget his sexy smile and pay attention to his nefarious NATO nuts

The supreme irony is that Vichy France is today being reborn. And the parents are not the fascists but the liberals. French independence at home and abroad is being sacrificed for the benefit of Wall Street and it’s Berlin cronies. And the French themselves have voted for this because they were apparently afraid of a “French Hitler”. In fact this manufactured fear was a pathetic out of date cardboard cutout. History in Hollywood may stand still but not in real time. Hitler is long dead. In any case he was only a frontman for European capitalism. He was a man of his time. Back in the 1930s capital needed Hitler in order to savage the communists. Today they need a different type of assassin. One that smiles and wears a shirt and tie. The bosses’ weapon of choice today is “freedom” instead of fascism.

For decades now France has been outmanoeuvred by “globalisation” and the imperialism it entails. Throughout the world America has made a fool of France (Suez in 1956, Rwanda in 1994 and the War on Terror from 2001 to the present). And in Europe Germany has made it look like a fool too (the Euro-Deutschmark and Austerity). It is not surprising therefore that France is now acting the fool. Out of fear of the fake extremism of the National Front – it has voted into power the real extremism of the liberal western elite.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/10/the-extremists-did-win-in-france/

....its a funny world ....populism isn't what it used to "officially" be, neither is fascism, nor liberalism....but we still have good old fashion imperialism, mindless wars and cannon fodder that is suitably subhuman....and people who just love a parade, like our own very dear ToreBear, Red and busted, to name a few....

Cheers

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Fancy Bears is such a cool name for a hacker group. A Russian GRU group at that. With all the problems gays have in Russia, this group just seems out of place. :lol:

Anyway, I wonder if the Macron hacking might lead to a tightening of sanctions against Russia. It certainly would make sense.

Or just keep the Russians away from the Olympics.

 

[BullsFan22]

....some nice light morning reading for use all....

May 10, 2017
The Extremists Did Win in France

by Aidan O'Brien

Hillary Clinton may have lost in America but she won in France. If the Russians were able to determine the American vote: why the hell weren’t they able to fix the vote in a third rate country like France? Maybe Russia isn’t the evil genius it’s made out to be in the West. Maybe it’s just the West.

We’re supposed to be happy that the neofascist lost. We’re supposed to be over the moon that the Euro and the European Union is feeling stronger today. We’re supposed to be dancing in the streets because liberal democracy is the king of France. But apart from the 1% and their market mad media no one else is euphoric. The victory of liberalism in Paris feels like a defeat.

In 2002 there was a real sense of relief when Le Pen senior lost to Chirac. But now in 2017 the loss of Le Pen junior feels diabolically different. The world has changed a lot in the last 15 years. In the race to kill all the people and to kill all the planet liberalism has overtaken fascism. Right now it’s liberalism rather than fascism which is the greatest danger facing humanity.

Most western progressives however are stuck in the 1930s. They see Hitler everywhere. They’re still fighting the Spanish Civil War! Their advice – the advice of Noam Chomsky in America and Yanis Varoufakis in Europe – is to always follow the example of the 1930s and form something like a united front against fascism. In today’s elections that means joining up with the liberals so as to keep out the extremists.

But who are the extremists? Who are today’s psychopathic killers and psychopathic slave-drivers? Since 2002 it has been the advocates of liberalism. The fascists don’t even come close. The forces of “individual freedom” have given us the on-going holocaust in the Middle East. And the champions of the “free market” have more respect for Guantanamo Bay prisoners than they do for the international working class.

And who are the racists? Right before our eyes we are seeing one genocide and seeing the preparation for two or three more. The Arabs – this instant – are being burnt alive. And the Koreans, Russians and Chinese are next in line. And the Africans and Latin Americans? No one cares anymore about those subhumans! The fascists are not responsible for this “divide, kill, starve and rule” global agenda. On the contrary it is the lovable liberals who are masterminding this – the final solution to the White Man’s Burden.

In the beautifully young face of Macron we see the beautifully young faces of Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Barack Obama. We see another glamorous marketing trick but feel the same old class agenda. Western capitalism über alles and “sink or swim” for the rest of us. It’s a stale vision of hell that belongs to past centuries.

Make no mistake about Macron: he is a nihilistic imperialist. In all the talk about him that’s the missing word -“imperialism”. However as an ex-investment banker (an ex-employee of the Rothschild mafia) he knows the the fundamental need of investors: imperialism. That’s what should concern us now. It goes unmentioned in the mainstream madhouse but Macron adds momentum to the drive for foreign wars and genocides. Forget his sexy smile and pay attention to his nefarious NATO nuts

The supreme irony is that Vichy France is today being reborn. And the parents are not the fascists but the liberals. French independence at home and abroad is being sacrificed for the benefit of Wall Street and it’s Berlin cronies. And the French themselves have voted for this because they were apparently afraid of a “French Hitler”. In fact this manufactured fear was a pathetic out of date cardboard cutout. History in Hollywood may stand still but not in real time. Hitler is long dead. In any case he was only a frontman for European capitalism. He was a man of his time. Back in the 1930s capital needed Hitler in order to savage the communists. Today they need a different type of assassin. One that smiles and wears a shirt and tie. The bosses’ weapon of choice today is “freedom” instead of fascism.

For decades now France has been outmanoeuvred by “globalisation” and the imperialism it entails. Throughout the world America has made a fool of France (Suez in 1956, Rwanda in 1994 and the War on Terror from 2001 to the present). And in Europe Germany has made it look like a fool too (the Euro-Deutschmark and Austerity). It is not surprising therefore that France is now acting the fool. Out of fear of the fake extremism of the National Front – it has voted into power the real extremism of the liberal western elite.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/10/the-extremists-did-win-in-france/

....its a funny world ....populism isn't what it used to "officially" be, neither is fascism, nor liberalism....but we still have good old fashion imperialism, mindless wars and cannon fodder that is suitably subhuman....and people who just love a parade, like our own very dear ToreBear, Red and busted, to name a few....

Cheers

Notice how after ToreBear comes back from longish breaks, his posts are more senile/aggressive? It happens in politics and in the clinic.

 

[Jagartrott]

Wow, that's *a lot* of drama and wild speculation on motives.
Perhaps it's nice to add that the EU Commission has (this week) promised to pursue 'fair trade' instead of rampant globalisation. You see, the anti-globalisation mood apparent in elections does in the end reach politicians' attention.

 

[blutto]

Re:

Wow, that's *a lot* of drama and wild speculation on motives.
Perhaps it's nice to add that the EU Commission has (this week) promised to pursue 'fair trade' instead of rampant globalisation. You see, the anti-globalisation mood apparent in elections does in the end reach politicians' attention.

....an accusation of wild speculation from the reigning king of maybe/possibly/suggests....wow that is rich....

....so the EU Commission promised to pursue "fair trade" ?.....gonna be interesting how this will translate into application....if recent history is any indication it will be akin to the process of promoting democracy and freedom in the Middle East by backing "humanitarian intervention".....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

....some nice light morning reading for use all....

May 10, 2017
The Extremists Did Win in France

by Aidan O'Brien

Hillary Clinton may have lost in America but she won in France. If the Russians were able to determine the American vote: why the hell weren’t they able to fix the vote in a third rate country like France? Maybe Russia isn’t the evil genius it’s made out to be in the West. Maybe it’s just the West.

We’re supposed to be happy that the neofascist lost. We’re supposed to be over the moon that the Euro and the European Union is feeling stronger today. We’re supposed to be dancing in the streets because liberal democracy is the king of France. But apart from the 1% and their market mad media no one else is euphoric. The victory of liberalism in Paris feels like a defeat.

In 2002 there was a real sense of relief when Le Pen senior lost to Chirac. But now in 2017 the loss of Le Pen junior feels diabolically different. The world has changed a lot in the last 15 years. In the race to kill all the people and to kill all the planet liberalism has overtaken fascism. Right now it’s liberalism rather than fascism which is the greatest danger facing humanity.

Most western progressives however are stuck in the 1930s. They see Hitler everywhere. They’re still fighting the Spanish Civil War! Their advice – the advice of Noam Chomsky in America and Yanis Varoufakis in Europe – is to always follow the example of the 1930s and form something like a united front against fascism. In today’s elections that means joining up with the liberals so as to keep out the extremists.

But who are the extremists? Who are today’s psychopathic killers and psychopathic slave-drivers? Since 2002 it has been the advocates of liberalism. The fascists don’t even come close. The forces of “individual freedom” have given us the on-going holocaust in the Middle East. And the champions of the “free market” have more respect for Guantanamo Bay prisoners than they do for the international working class.

And who are the racists? Right before our eyes we are seeing one genocide and seeing the preparation for two or three more. The Arabs – this instant – are being burnt alive. And the Koreans, Russians and Chinese are next in line. And the Africans and Latin Americans? No one cares anymore about those subhumans! The fascists are not responsible for this “divide, kill, starve and rule” global agenda. On the contrary it is the lovable liberals who are masterminding this – the final solution to the White Man’s Burden.

In the beautifully young face of Macron we see the beautifully young faces of Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Barack Obama. We see another glamorous marketing trick but feel the same old class agenda. Western capitalism über alles and “sink or swim” for the rest of us. It’s a stale vision of hell that belongs to past centuries.

Make no mistake about Macron: he is a nihilistic imperialist. In all the talk about him that’s the missing word -“imperialism”. However as an ex-investment banker (an ex-employee of the Rothschild mafia) he knows the the fundamental need of investors: imperialism. That’s what should concern us now. It goes unmentioned in the mainstream madhouse but Macron adds momentum to the drive for foreign wars and genocides. Forget his sexy smile and pay attention to his nefarious NATO nuts

The supreme irony is that Vichy France is today being reborn. And the parents are not the fascists but the liberals. French independence at home and abroad is being sacrificed for the benefit of Wall Street and it’s Berlin cronies. And the French themselves have voted for this because they were apparently afraid of a “French Hitler”. In fact this manufactured fear was a pathetic out of date cardboard cutout. History in Hollywood may stand still but not in real time. Hitler is long dead. In any case he was only a frontman for European capitalism. He was a man of his time. Back in the 1930s capital needed Hitler in order to savage the communists. Today they need a different type of assassin. One that smiles and wears a shirt and tie. The bosses’ weapon of choice today is “freedom” instead of fascism.

For decades now France has been outmanoeuvred by “globalisation” and the imperialism it entails. Throughout the world America has made a fool of France (Suez in 1956, Rwanda in 1994 and the War on Terror from 2001 to the present). And in Europe Germany has made it look like a fool too (the Euro-Deutschmark and Austerity). It is not surprising therefore that France is now acting the fool. Out of fear of the fake extremism of the National Front – it has voted into power the real extremism of the liberal western elite.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/05/10/the-extremists-did-win-in-france/

....its a funny world ....populism isn't what it used to "officially" be, neither is fascism, nor liberalism....but we still have good old fashion imperialism, mindless wars and cannon fodder that is suitably subhuman....and people who just love a parade, like our own very dear ToreBear, Red and busted, to name a few....

Cheers

Notice how after ToreBear comes back from longish breaks, his posts are more senile/aggressive? It happens in politics and in the clinic.

....most excellent point .....

Cheers

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

....an accusation of wild speculation from the reigning king of maybe/possibly/suggests....wow that is rich....

Nice way of misrepresentating that I stated that one should not speak in absolutes (as the article's author does multiple times) on matters where (a lot of) information is lacking. But that caution obviously gets in the way of a nice straw-man story.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....an accusation of wild speculation from the reigning king of maybe/possibly/suggests....wow that is rich....

Nice way of misrepresentating that I stated that one should not speak in absolutes (as the article's author does multiple times) on matters where (a lot of) information is lacking. But that caution obviously gets in the way of a nice straw-man story.

....you call it a misrepresentation....I call it a nice deflection...and me, I'm thinking more along the lines of a direct hit...but that just may be me....

Cheers

 

[ToreBear]

@Blutto
So you are not pleased with the French elections. Shocking. So the Fascist are not the bad kind of fascists, but the liberals are the real fascists. Whatever. This may be news to some but Russia is a fascist state. Real diversity of opinion is not allowed there. If differing opinions look to gain traction they are quickly quashed. That Putin is disappointed Le Pen didn't win is no surprise. Hence neither are his purveyors of an alternate reality in the west either. That the author calls France a third rate country where elections should be easily rigged by Putin is interesting. From my knowledge of France, it's democracy is far more developed than that of the US. The reason is that the people and it's institutions/media etc is more resistant to misinformation. Especially with the knowledge and hence inoculation of the US elections.

That Putin is dumb enough to meddle and hence piss off the next president of France is no surprise either. Putin has over the years shown little if any ability at understanding the long term consequences of his schemes.

@BullsFan22
The Olympics would not be affected. The Sanctions will be more of the same. Making life difficult for Putin and his fellow oligarchs.

As for senile/aggressive. I must have forgot about the forum during the NFL draft....

 

[blutto]

Re:

@Blutto
So you are not pleased with the French elections. Shocking. So the Fascist are not the bad kind of fascists, but the liberals are the real fascists. Whatever. This may be news to some but Russia is a fascist state. Real diversity of opinion is not allowed there. If differing opinions look to gain traction they are quickly quashed. That Putin is disappointed Le Pen didn't win is no surprise. Hence neither are his purveyors of an alternate reality in the west either. That the author calls France a third rate country where elections should be easily rigged by Putin is interesting. From my knowledge of France, it's democracy is far more developed than that of the US. The reason is that the people and it's institutions/media etc is more resistant to misinformation. Especially with the knowledge and hence inoculation of the US elections.

That Putin is dumb enough to meddle and hence piss off the next president of France is no surprise either. Putin has over the years shown little if any ability at understanding the long term consequences of his schemes.

@BullsFan22
The Olympics would not be affected. The Sanctions will be more of the same. Making life difficult for Putin and his fellow oligarchs.

As for senile/aggressive. I must have forgot about the forum during the NFL draft....

....actually what is most interesting is your reading of the point the author made.....some might even conclude selective mis-reading to the point of gross distortion....

Cheers

 

[Jagartrott]

....you call it a misrepresentation....I call it a nice deflection...and me, I'm thinking more along the lines of a direct hit...but that just may be me....

Yes, it's you. I criticize the author for speaking in absolutes about things he lacks a lot of information about. That's completely consistent with what I spoke of earlier about likelihoods etc. Meanwhile, while I attacked the article, you chose to direct criticism towards me.

 

[BullsFan22]

Blutto, what's the word for facepalm in Canadian?

 

[blutto]

Blutto, what's the word for facepalm in Canadian?

...uhhh ?....hmmm?....drawing a blank....will get back to you.....

Cheers

 

[Echoes]

Re:

@Blutto
So you are not pleased with the French elections. Shocking. So the Fascist are not the bad kind of fascists, but the liberals are the real fascists. Whatever. This may be news to some but Russia is a fascist state. Real diversity of opinion is not allowed there.

That the author calls France a third rate country where elections should be easily rigged by Putin is interesting.

So the moralisers about Conspiracy theories and setting up CT's which should be accepted by anyone?

From my knowledge of France, it's democracy is far more developed than that of the US. The reason is that the people and it's institutions/media etc is more resistant to misinformation. Especially with the knowledge and hence inoculation of the US elections.

Huh not at all! With regards to institutions, there are many more democratic freedoms in the US than in France and freedom of press, freedom of opinion is way more prevalent...

 

[ToreBear]

Re: Re:

@Blutto
So you are not pleased with the French elections. Shocking. So the Fascist are not the bad kind of fascists, but the liberals are the real fascists. Whatever. This may be news to some but Russia is a fascist state. Real diversity of opinion is not allowed there.

That the author calls France a third rate country where elections should be easily rigged by Putin is interesting.

So the moralisers about Conspiracy theories and setting up CT's which should be accepted by anyone?

From my knowledge of France, it's democracy is far more developed than that of the US. The reason is that the people and it's institutions/media etc is more resistant to misinformation. Especially with the knowledge and hence inoculation of the US elections.

Huh not at all! With regards to institutions, there are many more democratic freedoms in the US than in France and freedom of press, freedom of opinion is way more prevalent...

France has a limits on campaign finance and it's origin. In the US anonymous shell companies can set up super packs. Freedom of expression is hence usurped by those with money. From both at home and abroad.

Freedom of the press to lie without consequence. Mislead without consequence. Manipulate without consequence. Press is dominated by moneyed interests in the US.

 

[ToreBear]

Blutto, what's the word for facepalm in Canadian?

...uhhh ?....hmmm?....drawing a blank....will get back to you.....

Cheers

Just curious. What is the word for facepalm in Russian?

 

[BullsFan22]

To steal a line from Blutto (sorry mate, had to!), 'file this under' interesting development!

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/south-korean-leader-apos-view-170230695.html


The Trumpster won't like this.