World Politics

[Echoes]

Marine Le Pen has done a big job to "un-demonise" her party. She's sacked her father and accepted several people from the Left. Dogged defence of the secular school system (her father supported the "school cheque" making it possible for Catholic schools to exist), socialist ideas such as retirement at age 60 (during the debate Macron even derided it for being a Mitterrand failure) and repeated defence of Jews and gays against "Muslim fundamentalism" (also during the debate).

Only thing that is left from her Father's "fascism" is of course migration control and what she has added is hysterical Islamophobia (repeated during the debate, no Islamic headscarves at uni!) but that is very much compatible with all the pro-Israeli intellectuals who are omnipresent on the French media. Mr Cukierman who is the chairman of the CRIF (French equivalent for AIPAC) said she was "irreproachable". All this Islamophobia and fanatical defence of secularism is of course exactly what I abhor in her agenda and rhetoric (just like in Wilders') but least we can say is that it's a very different party than in the days of her father. She's pretty much in line with all the "moderate" parties in this respect.

 

[mcduff]

Re: Re:

.....endorsed the fascist instead.

what will you call almost 40% of the french electorate when they vote for le pen ? nazi/fascist enablers ? stupid/confused ? hitler-like 1933 facilitators ? deplorable ?

for a record, i am as far from the le pen views as it comes.

i just don't find much usefulness for the passionate political labels. simply b/c if persisted, it is bound to lead to a rather awkward and simplistic insult of almost half of the french.

perhaps 'the deplorable' are more numerous than i realized

And what do you call the (almost) 40% of Germans who voted for the National Socialist German Workers Party in 1932?

Try to think of an epithet that doesn't insult.

thanks for proving my point. i got it, you are for the cheap political labels. a suggestion: next time before resorting to historical parallels, if ignorant of a date from memory, use google. besides, the old labels blindly transferred to a modern, much more complicated europe, dont credit you with much understanding of that era. i feel sorry that you disappointed b/c some of your earlier posts gave impression of more depth...

So you don't know the difference between the Presidential election of 1932, and the Federal election of 1933?

I won't rub your nose in it, don't worry.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

It is their strategy there and here. Label them neo nazi fascist. It is tired and over used with no effect now. Because of stupid so called "intelligent" people fall back on the nazi label that does not work. I said before it diminishes the actual S.....hat that the real nazi's did do.

He said Le Pen was a fascist, you and Python expand that to her voters, which is intellectually dishonest.
While the label can mean different things to different people, note that Varoufakis uses the same term for Le Pen. Nazi and fascist is not the same, by the way.

so you are now an expert on intellectual honesty ?

if so, you've just given me a cart blanch to brand you so b/c i was actually withdrawing to call that label reading a lot of your very murky, confused judjements that an intellectually honest person claiming to be a scientist should have posed at...you started it, you will have to deal now with the it.

 

[rhubroma]

Marine Le Pen has done a big job to "un-demonise" her party. She's sacked her father and accepted several people from the Left. Dogged defence of the secular school system (her father supported the "school cheque" making it possible for Catholic schools to exist), socialist ideas such as retirement at age 60 (during the debate Macron even derided it for being a Mitterrand failure) and repeated defence of Jews and gays against "Muslim fundamentalism" (also during the debate).

Only thing that is left from her Father's "fascism" is of course migration control and what she has added is hysterical Islamophobia (repeated during the debate, no Islamic headscarves at uni!) but that is very much compatible with all the pro-Israeli intellectuals who are omnipresent on the French media. Mr Cukierman who is the chairman of the CRIF (French equivalent for AIPAC) said she was "irreproachable". All this Islamophobia and fanatical defence of secularism is of course exactly what I abhor in her agenda and rhetoric (just like in Wilders') but least we can say is that it's a very different party than in the days of her father. She's pretty much in line with all the "moderate" parties in this respect.

The current of populism and its demagogues is, as you know, riding the nationalist wave, in these times of uncertainty and unemployment, of anti-immigrant and islamophobic rhetoric. This and a visceral, almost anthropological, loathing of establishment technocrats, corporate politics, the EU and its legal-financial apparatus, for which the centirsts on both the left and right have no solutions. Nay, they are in symbiotic relationship with them.

For this reason fascism seems preferable to market conformism.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

I won't rub your nose in it, don't worry.

so you dont know the difference btwn the post ww1 germany electoral dynamics and modern france ? yep, i will rob your nose in it every time i have a chance b/c it is rather helpful in isolating the modern european demagogues like you.

once again, blindly applying passionate labels makes you look shallow.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

so you are now an expert on intellectual honesty ?

if so, you've just given me a cart blanch to brand you so b/c i was actually withdrawing to call that label reading a lot of your very murky, confused judjements that an intellectually honest person claiming to be a scientist should have posed at...you started it, you will have to deal now with the it.

Oh no, not an expert. I just read what mcduff actually said.
Another one that wants to deal some personal blows left and right? There's a big difference between calling something intellectually dishonest and calling someone intellectually dishonest.

 

[mcduff]

Re: Re:

I won't rub your nose in it, don't worry.

so you dont know the difference btwn the post ww1 germany electoral dynamics and modern france ? yep, i will rob your nose in it every time i have a chance b/c it is rather helpful in isolating the modern european demagogues like you.

once again, blindly applying passionate labels makes you look shallow.

Am I still wrong about the election being in 1932? Or has history changed in the last 15 minutes. Remember, in amongst all the other insults you've been throwing at me you said I was ignorant of the history and should have googled the date. Are you still sticking with that?

Or are you grown up enough to admit your mistake and retract the insult you attached to it?

 

[BullsFan22]

Macron said there's no such thing as French culture. You don't have to be a fascist to see how wrong that is to say.

I personally would have voted for Melenchon. He's anti-war, he is a Eurosceptic and said that the EU isn't functioning in its current makeup, he would pull France out of NATO (though I don't think he was so adamant about it), he feels Germany has too much influence (of course, he was immediately labeled as an Germanophobe), is pro immigration but feels that things need to improve, etc....and he isn't blindly giving support to Macron simply because he is going up against Le Pen, nor is he urging his supporters to back Macron.

I don't know how many will abstain or how many of his and others' supporters will support the other candidates, but that could be the key this weekend. It was a tight four-way race in the first round, and the question becomes, which candidate will pickup the most Fillon and Melenchon voters? I am guessing the voters that supported Fillon and Melenchon will be split. Fillon, despite the apparent scandal, almost made it into the final round, and Melenchon was less than 1% behind him. That's almost 40% of the vote.

It'll also be interesting to see which areas vote for Le Pen and which ones vote for Macron. The cities will be interesting. Marseille has a large immigrant population, so I expect that to go to Macron. Paris is probably a toss up. Lyon, St. Etienne, Nice, Bordeaux, Lille....central France, rural areas....the south (the French Basques)....how much campaigning has Le Pen's niece, Marion Marechal Le Pen (also a FN politician in the Carpentras region) done for her aunt to get votes?

 

[python]

Re: Re:

so you are now an expert on intellectual honesty ?

if so, you've just given me a cart blanch to brand you so b/c i was actually withdrawing to call that label reading a lot of your very murky, confused judjements that an intellectually honest person claiming to be a scientist should have posed at...you started it, you will have to deal now with the it.

Oh no, not an expert. I just read what mcduff actually said.
Another one that wants to deal some personal blows left and right? There's a big difference between calling something intellectually dishonest and calling someone intellectually dishonest.

the difference is in you trying to talk to yourself as opposed to trying to be reflective of the effects of what you right. calling shots on someone's honesty while commenting on their post requires a rather in-depth knowledge of a poster's motivations you simply CAN NOT HAVE. thus you you will from now on may become a subject of your own standard.

@mcduff
if you feel insulted by someone pointing to your simplistic parallels btwn nazi germany and modern france , i should stay out of it.

 

[Brullnux]

Macron said there's no such thing as French culture. You don't have to be a fascist to see how wrong that is to say.

I personally would have voted for Melenchon. He's anti-war, he is a Eurosceptic and said that the EU isn't functioning in its current makeup, he would pull France out of NATO (though I don't think he was so adamant about it), he feels Germany has too much influence (of course, he was immediately labeled as an Germanophobe), is pro immigration but feels that things need to improve, etc....and he isn't blindly giving support to Macron simply because he is going up against Le Pen, nor is he urging his supporters to back Macron.

I don't know how many will abstain or how many of his and others' supporters will support the other candidates, but that could be the key this weekend. It was a tight four-way race in the first round, and the question becomes, which candidate will pickup the most Fillon and Melenchon voters? I am guessing the voters that supported Fillon and Melenchon will be split. Fillon, despite the apparent scandal, almost made it into the final round, and Melenchon was less than 1% behind him. That's almost 40% of the vote.

It'll also be interesting to see which areas vote for Le Pen and which ones vote for Macron. The cities will be interesting. Marseille has a large immigrant population, so I expect that to go to Macron. Paris is probably a toss up. Lyon, St. Etienne, Nice, Bordeaux, Lille....central France, rural areas....the south (the French Basques)....how much campaigning has Le Pen's niece, Marion Marechal Le Pen (also a FN politician in the Carpentras region) done for her aunt to get votes?

If I am not mistaken, Marseille and the south is a FN heartland. The basque country is more left leaning, as is Bordeaux (usually). Lille will be very interesting because of its history, while Nice will probably go FN.

 

[mcduff]

Re: Re:

so you are now an expert on intellectual honesty ?

if so, you've just given me a cart blanch to brand you so b/c i was actually withdrawing to call that label reading a lot of your very murky, confused judjements that an intellectually honest person claiming to be a scientist should have posed at...you started it, you will have to deal now with the it.

Oh no, not an expert. I just read what mcduff actually said.
Another one that wants to deal some personal blows left and right? There's a big difference between calling something intellectually dishonest and calling someone intellectually dishonest.

the difference is in you trying to talk to yourself as opposed to trying to be reflective of the effects of what you right. calling shots on someone's honesty while commenting on their post requires a rather in-depth knowledge of a poster's motivations you simply CAN NOT HAVE. thus you you will from now on may become a subject of your own standard.

@mcduff
if you feel insulted by someone pointing to your simplistic parallels btwn nazi germany and modern france , i should stay out of it.

You'd like me to stay out of it, wouldn't you. Now that I've exposed you. Its all up there in the thread, quoted by me for posterity. Nobody is going to be swayed by your post hoc attempt at aggressive bluster. Do you find that tactic usually works for you?

Big mistake. Its all there for everyone to see.

Ta ta for now :lol:

 

[python]

quite the opposite, stay in it. i dont really care, but the the longer you do the more you will expose yourself, sparky, as a hurt, shallow demagogue

all i did was to point to your unnecessarily passionate rhetoric about le pen. which turned out pure demagoguery b/c you revealed a lack of nuance. a lack of appreciating the difference btwn nazi germany and modern france. it was obvious.

i also noted i absolutely do not share her values. i fear her taking control of one of europes main countries. the difference btwn me and you is - very simply - i do not feel the overused labels advance the cause.

of course people have the right to call her views anything. but the implications are grave, b/c almost half of the electorate may give her a pass.

i just find that the excessive demagoguery, like yours precisely, serves to further polarize the europeans. which unfortunately may beget more le pens.

that's all the basis for my objections. and you took it into the personal sphere which indicates a very limited, simplistic view of the problem.

of course it is YOUR problem.

 

[Dan2016]

Re:

The bourgeoisie devil of the French radical chic gauche Mélenchon faction won't pinch their noses to vote Macron. As historian Emmanuel Todd put it: "To vote Front National is to approve xenofobia, but to vote Macron is to accept submission. For me it's impossible to choose. I consider Lepenism and Macronism to be two sides of the same coin. Le Pen is racism, Macron is servitude to the banks and Germany. For this reason I abstain with consistency, rather with joy, waiting for a better world to be born."

So fascism vs. marketism that is the question and vice versa. Todd concludes there is more to fear "in the rousing to fanatacism of the conformists, than the resurgence of fascism."

Evidently the US election has established the zeitgeist.

I like that approach. Felt that way for a long time. No more lesser evil nonsense. I'm going to do some googling on Emmanuel Todd. I've been getting the impression the left, though having fierce debate over abstaining or not, are swinging towards the lesser evil fallacy. Horrible dilemma. I'm not sure there are any right answers, not 'a priori' anyway...

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/04/france-elections-macron-le-pen-extreme-center-neoliberalism-fascism

....if the author of that other article had been other than who he was I would have metaphorically tossed it like I tossed that bit of fluff from Cockburn...but I gotta say that article stood me up a bit....now it could be that Macron could well have been just playing the good cop to keep some hope technically alive so the negotiations didn't blow up ( which as far as I'm concerned they should have and Greece should have gone full Iceland and walked away...instead they went full Ireland....which was real dumb...cause Iceland is doing well and Ireland is fcuked .)....

...that being said all the other sources that I rely on are some variation of the article you posted....and as far as I'm concerned they are still the smart bet...but hope does spring eternal and I hope for so some good end not another lesser of two evils...

Cheers

I pay attention to Varoufakis, and that article gives me pause for thought... but, as you suggest, in terms of substance, it was indeed a toss-able fluff piece. The substance of his argument was buried in the final paragraph. It's a lesser of two evil argument and he has no idea how Macron will work out. There was no substantive analysis offered to support the idea that Macron isn't simply a good ol' card-carrying neoliberal. The Jacobin article is considerably more substantial and, I agree, a safer bet on the nature of Macron. He is a lesser of two evils, and I don't see any reason for hope.

Either way, it's a hell of a shitty dilemma, as usual. My feeling is that the mainstream left continue to legitimize oppression by this mode of opposition... opposing Le Pen by voting Macron legitimizes a system that offers these ridiculous options...but it's certainly interesting to read Varoufakis opposing this view

 

[mcduff]

Re:

quite the opposite, stay in it. i dont really care, but the the longer you do the more you will expose yourself, sparky, as a hurt, shallow demagogue

all i did was to point to your unnecessarily passionate rhetoric about le pen. which turned out pure demagoguery b/c you revealed a lack of nuance. a lack of appreciating the difference btwn nazi germany and modern france. it was obvious.

i also noted i absolutely do not share her values. i fear her taking control of one of europes main countries. the difference btwn me and you is - very simply - i do not feel the overused labels advance the cause.

of course people have the right to call her views anything. but the implications are grave, b/c almost half of the electorate may give her a pass.

i just find that the excessive demagoguery, like yours precisely, serves to further polarize the europeans. which unfortunately may beget more le pens.

that's all the basis for my objections. and you took it into the personal sphere which indicates a very limited, simplistic view of the problem.

of course it is YOUR problem.

But that isn't all you did is it...

You said this:

a suggestion: next time before resorting to historical parallels, if ignorant of a date from memory, use google.

...implying that I was wrong about the date of the German Presidential election of 1932, when in fact you were wrong. Not only that but you did it in a patronising and rude manner (much in keeping with your subsequent output) Not very clever when it transpires that it is YOU who are ignorant of history. You've been hoist by your own petard.

Your subsequent unnecessarily rude and aggressive rhetoric was an attempt to bluster through this gross error.We aren't going anywhere until you acknowledge your crass mistake. Once you've done that I'll address the rest of your post.

But you won't, and we both know why. It is because your whole 'point' is predicated on you having a greater knowledge of the historical context of the 1932(or was it '33 :lol: ) German presidential election than me, and also a greater knowledge of the political context of modern France, enabling you to discount my comparison.

Now we know you really don't know very much at all about the German aspect. I wonder what you know about France? Its funny that you worry about me insulting French voters. I'm a handful of miles from the French coast. I speak fluent French. I'm over there all the time, and have been doing so for about 30 years. Oh..and I've been married to one of them for several decades, so I guess you could say half my family are French. I'll be sure to pass on your concerns to them

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

The bourgeoisie devil of the French radical chic gauche Mélenchon faction won't pinch their noses to vote Macron. As historian Emmanuel Todd put it: "To vote Front National is to approve xenofobia, but to vote Macron is to accept submission. For me it's impossible to choose. I consider Lepenism and Macronism to be two sides of the same coin. Le Pen is racism, Macron is servitude to the banks and Germany. For this reason I abstain with consistency, rather with joy, waiting for a better world to be born."

So fascism vs. marketism that is the question and vice versa. Todd concludes there is more to fear "in the rousing to fanatacism of the conformists, than the resurgence of fascism."

Evidently the US election has established the zeitgeist.

I like that approach. Felt that way for a long time. No more lesser evil nonsense. I'm going to do some googling on Emmanuel Todd. I've been getting the impression the left, though having fierce debate over abstaining or not, are swinging towards the lesser evil fallacy. Horrible dilemma. I'm not sure there are any right answers, not 'a priori' anyway...

I can only say the left needs to find a calling other than neoliberalism, if it doesn't want to fall into the historical oblivion that the various Macrons, Renzis, Clintons are promptly relegating it. At that point the dialectic over better Macron or Le Pen, marketism or fascism won't matter. They will be the same.

The problem, of course, is that the folks "comunism," with its programed economy and destruction of individual liberty, apart from the freedom of movement, was a non-sustainable, non-functioning response to "marketism" (at least under the outside burdens of the "free market" system itself). Further demonstration of this is that it's oligarchies, everywhere behind the former iron curtain, have given way to the worst forms of capitalism and behaved like the pre-revolutionary barons of yore, likewise in China. The Soviet oligarchs erred egregiously in presuming that they could virtuously impose an absolute and rational state in place of the irrational absolutism of the aristocrats and the priesthoods, while not sinning of their same arrogance, privliges and repressive czarist policies. In other words, they made a cult of the State their class, the very notion of which was supposed to have been obliterated, embodied. Evidently, though, Todd insists upon finding another solution that is NOT Macron, Renzi or Clinton.

Although today it's the smart alecs of "marketism" and their minions among the so-called centrists, who perhaps are even more absolute in their faith in "progress" exclusively measurable in GNP and consumption growth - of course under their unquestionable guidance. The Bertrand Russel quote someone previously posted is particularly apposite here: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." And they have drug the nations further right, to the margins of the political and ideological spectrums that once were occupied by fascism, today called populism.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

The bourgeoisie devil of the French radical chic gauche Mélenchon faction won't pinch their noses to vote Macron. As historian Emmanuel Todd put it: "To vote Front National is to approve xenofobia, but to vote Macron is to accept submission. For me it's impossible to choose. I consider Lepenism and Macronism to be two sides of the same coin. Le Pen is racism, Macron is servitude to the banks and Germany. For this reason I abstain with consistency, rather with joy, waiting for a better world to be born."

So fascism vs. marketism that is the question and vice versa. Todd concludes there is more to fear "in the rousing to fanatacism of the conformists, than the resurgence of fascism."

Evidently the US election has established the zeitgeist.

I like that approach. Felt that way for a long time. No more lesser evil nonsense. I'm going to do some googling on Emmanuel Todd. I've been getting the impression the left, though having fierce debate over abstaining or not, are swinging towards the lesser evil fallacy. Horrible dilemma. I'm not sure there are any right answers, not 'a priori' anyway...

I can only say the left needs to find a calling other than neoliberalism, if it doesn't want to fall into the historical oblivion that the various Macrons, Renzis, Clintons are promptly relegating it. At that point the dialectic over better Macron or Le Pen, marketism or fascism won't matter. They will be the same.

The problem, of course, is that the folks "comunism," with its programed economy and destruction of individual liberty, apart from the freedom of movement, was a non-sustainable, non-functioning response to "marketism" (at least under the outside burdens of the "free market" system itself). Further demonstration of this is that it's oligarchies, everywhere behind the former iron curtain, have given way to the worst forms of capitalism and behaved like the pre-revolutionary barons of yore, likewise in China. The Soviet oligarchs erred egregiously in presuming that they could virtuously impose an absolute and rational state in place of the irrational absolutism of the aristocrats and the priesthoods, while not sinning of their same arrogance, privliges and repressive czarist policies. In other words, they made a cult of the State their class, the very notion of which was supposed to have been obliterated, embodied. Evidently, though, Todd insists upon finding another solution that is NOT Macron, Renzi or Clinton.

Yet today it's the smart alecks of "marketism" and their minions among the so-called centrists, who perhaps are even more absolute in their faith in "progress" exclusively measurable in GNP and consumption growth of course under their unquestionable guidance. The Bertrand Russel quote someone previously put here is particularly apposite here: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." And they have drug the nations further right, to the margins of the political and ideological spectrums that once were occupied by fascism, today called populism.

good post, rh. sort of goes, but in more detail, to my main point of excessive political labels vs. the real political issues and their differences. i understand that avoiding labels totally isn't practical, but as has been shown time and again, a 'neoliberal'' is quite capable of policies that under circumstances would smack illiberal OR - to a particular voter - as 'fascist'. i just can't see a utility of reducing macron vs le pen to a 'neoliberal vs a fascist'. i just want to causion you, that 'fools and fanatics' can be found all over the political spectra.

@duffy
you have wasted a lot of bandwidth. i wont repeat your problem nor take your baits only b/c you have been exposed for resorting to flaming political labels. call le pen all you want, but its very primitive and dangerous to draw a parallel between her in the modern france context and the post ww1 germany. to make you feel better, you aren't the only one... btw, no one asked who you were married to, for how long, or where you live. certainly, i do not care nor find it relevant to your demagoguery.

 

[Echoes]

Re: Re:

I like that approach. Felt that way for a long time. No more lesser evil nonsense. I'm going to do some googling on Emmanuel Todd. I've been getting the impression the left, though having fierce debate over abstaining or not, are swinging towards the lesser evil fallacy. Horrible dilemma. I'm not sure there are any right answers, not 'a priori' anyway...

Emmanuel Todd is one of the rare decent French intellectuals to show up on mainstream media but he usually would not get to the end of his own logics and make surprising mistakes. For example he had advocate for "European protectionism" before the 2005 referendum about the European Constitutional Treaty BUT voted yes at the said referendum while the ECT was absolutely anti-protectionist. I still cannot understand his stance today. Besides he constantly bashes Germany as the leader of Europe while the EU is led by the US, not by Germany. The Eurozone does more harm to Germany than to the rest of Europe and probably will be first to exit the zone.

However some of his analyses are brilliant. Back in 2005 I was rather young but I discovered that he coined the neologism "nationism" whereby he acknowledged the existence of "nations" and "borders" against globalisation which is in his opinion from "nationalism" which considers one's own nation as an absolute. At that time it surely gave some grey hair to many internationalist left-wingers. Then I read two of his best-sellers "Après l'Empire" and "Après la démocratie", two very anti-American books.

He's a good demographer and statistician. Back in 1976 based on demographical studies he was able to predict the fall of the USSR within 20 years "La chute finale". Widely recognised as a masterpiece of prospective work!

The best of Emmanuel Todd in my opinion is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJoHYMcs3MY
Basically he says that Islamophobia comes from secularism. He describes a society that is disturbed by the long-lasting lack of religious belief. The secularist needs people who believe in unproven things to point the finger at him as naive. "Oh he believes in God, poor thing, he didn't understand, life has no sense, haha" You need to feel smarter than other people. Until 1965 [end of Vatican II that is] there were plenty of Catholics to designated as *** but now there are none anymore, so hup Islam! People who should carry in our eyes the shame of believing in an unprovable thing.

In this regard he published a sociological book (that I haven't read) about Islam: "Qui est Charlie?" ("Who is Charlie?") in which he described the post Charlie Hebdo demonstrations as old middle class people who supported the European construction (Maastricht Treaty, ECT), radically Islamophobic (Islam being a "scapegoat" that replaced the Jews in "traditionally anti-Semitic regions) and Germanophile (they believe French should follow the German model, ignoring the fact that French and German are different people with different industries).

Another book that raised controversy in the "good-thinking" left-wing circles.

 

[blutto]

.....more weird from the Middle East.....this one weirder than most ?.....or just another Al Jazeera film production caught "with its pants down" ( and please remember this source is funded by Qatar which is also funding those imported "freedom fighters" in Syria... ) and btw there have been several of those incidents....

Attack Against Civilians in Syria

By Sputnik News

Note from Tom; I want to thank ICH readers for pointing out the fact that this story has been denied by Al Jazeera (Al Jazeera responds to Sputnik chemical attack report: Russian agency Sputnik has published fake news about Al Jazeera - its claims amount to defamation punishable by law. ) Please read the comments at the base of the article. However, Time will tell if the story is false.

May 04, 2017 "Information Clearing House" - A false flag fake chemical attack against civilians has recently been filmed by al-Jazeera stringers in Syria, and it was ordered from a European country, a military and diplomatic source revealed on Thursday.

"The "effectiveness" of the White Helmets' TV-spectacle of accusing Syrian authorities of attacking civilians in Khan Shaykhun with sarin inspired terrorists to continue filming the fake 'series'. According to info confirmed via several channels, al-Jazeera television channel stringers have recently filmed a staged, fake scene of an alleged chemical attack against civilians by the Syrian Army," the source told Sputnik.

The source said around 30 fire engines and ambulances, as well as 70 local residents with children transported from a refugee camp were used in the filming across three locations in Idlib province, including Jisr Shughur.

"A multiple simultaneous uploading of filmed fake footage with 'screaming' social media comments was due to take place in the next few days (by Sunday) at the separate command of a mastermind and sponsor of the film in one of the European countries," he added

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46994.htm

Cheers

 

[Jagartrott]

There must be some tremendous acting talent in those refugee camps.

 

[mcduff]

Re: Re:

@duffy
you have wasted a lot of bandwidth. i wont repeat your problem nor take your baits only b/c you have been exposed for resorting to flaming political labels. call le pen all you want, but its very primitive and dangerous to draw a parallel between her in the modern france context and the post ww1 germany. to make you feel better, you aren't the only one... btw, no one asked who you were married to, for how long, or where you live. certainly, i do not care nor find it relevant to your demagoguery.

You've had the chance to man up to your error several times, and you've had the chance also to back off on the insults. You've not taken that opportunity even though it would have been the honest and correct thing to do. But hey, it looks like that's you.

You aren't interested in my background, but having had me correct you over your scant knowledge of German history, you shouldnt be so glib as to discount my experience of France and the French as it is evidently much greater than yours and we will soon see just how much you don't know...

You are quite correct, I'm not the only person to label Le Pen a fascist. You won't know this, because you don't know very much (hence the aggressive bluster) but Le Pen was labelled a fascist by Jean-Luc Mélenchon (do you know who he is?)

She tried to sue him, and lost. Two years ago she tried to sue a French comedian who called her a fascist, and lost. The courts ruled that it was OK to call Le Pen a fascist.

Just another example of something you don't know. Carry on...

 

[blutto]

....major Macron kablooee ?.....or more fake news...and btw Putin has already been blamed so there is that....gonna be interesting how everyone ends up lining up on this one....

As reported overnight, the anonymous source of documents alleging Emmanuel Macron's involvement with an operating agreement for a Limited Liability Company (LLC) in the Caribbean island of Nevis returned to release several high quality images of the purported documents along with promises to release even more documents and identify account locations and the extent of the assets Macron is supposedly hiding from regulatory authorities

The leaker noted that Macron's assets were not located in the Bahamas as was been reported by some media outlets, but in the Cayman Islands, another known hotspot for tax evasion. They further stated that they were taking measures to conceal their identity because they are located in the European Union and did not wish to be arrested. The leaker also explained that they were one of a small group of individuals working online with a source in the Cayman Islands to expose the leaked information. They claimed that they were in possession of SWIFTNet logs dating back for several months, and would soon not only know where Mr. Macron's alleged accounts are located but also the "extent of the money he is hiding from [France's] government

.....and.....

Then on Friday evening, Macron's political party said its computer systems were hacked, after "thousands of emails and electronic documents purporting to come from the campaign were posted anonymously on the internet Friday evening." According to the WSJ , the files had been obtained several weeks ago from the personal and work email accounts of party officials, according to a statement from Mr. Macron’s party, En Marche!, or On the Move. The file dump comes less than two days before the final round of France’s presidential race, which pits Mr. Macron against far-right nationalist Marine Le Pen.

"The En Marche! Movement has been the victim of a massive and co-ordinated hack this evening which has given rise to the diffusion on social media of various internal information," the statement said.

The party said that the cache "includes both authentic and falsified documents with the goal of sowing doubt and disinformation,” which is another way of stating that anything that is potentialy damaging will be claimed to the fake, while the innocuous documents are "authentic.

"


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-05/macron-says-he-victim-massive-coordinated-hack-after-9-gigabytes-private-documents-r

Cheers

 

[blutto]

.....hmmm Big Brother don't like this one bit ( for those keeping score remember how the Panama Papers thingee was handled when the MSM's had Putin in their sights )....

After 9 gigabytes of Macron-linked documents and emails were released on an anonymous pastebin website on Friday afternoon in what Macron's campaign said was a "massive and coordinated" hacking attack, France - fearing a similar response to what happened with Hillary Clinton after 35,000 John Podesta emails were released one month before the US presidential election - cracked down on the distribution of the files, warning on Saturday it would be a "criminal offense" to republish the data, and warning the French media not to publish content from any of the hacked emails "to prevent the outcome of the vote being influenced."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-06/france-warns-media-not-publish-hacked-macron-emails-threatens-criminal-charges

Cheers

 

[mcduff]

A Le Pen victory would be in Russia's interests.

Mind you, that's not to say it wouldn't be in the US or UK's interests either...and all three of those states are pretty actively involved in the world of cyber espionage.

 

[BullsFan22]

.....hmmm Big Brother don't like this one bit ( for those keeping score remember how the Panama Papers thingee was handled when the MSM's had Putin in their sights )....

After 9 gigabytes of Macron-linked documents and emails were released on an anonymous pastebin website on Friday afternoon in what Macron's campaign said was a "massive and coordinated" hacking attack, France - fearing a similar response to what happened with Hillary Clinton after 35,000 John Podesta emails were released one month before the US presidential election - cracked down on the distribution of the files, warning on Saturday it would be a "criminal offense" to republish the data, and warning the French media not to publish content from any of the hacked emails "to prevent the outcome of the vote being influenced."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-06/france-warns-media-not-publish-hacked-macron-emails-threatens-criminal-charges

Cheers

Not surprising that the French are calling on their media not to go after their 'golden boi.' Predictable that Macron would play the "Russia did it" card. He's played it before.