World Politics

Page 820 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
....file under, fcuk I've seen this fcuking story before.....like how many variations of this CIA fueled crap have we seen....and how much death and destruction has it produced....read and weep....

The Syrian Side of the Story You Never Hear

Our relationship with Assad could have been very different

by Ted Snider, May 03, 2017

Like a badly written series of romance novels, the plot template remains fixed while just the names of the characters and places rotate through the template. The story of Syria that Americans and Canadians ingest from the mainstream media is the same simplistic narrative of good and evil told by Washington about each new enemy. Every action committed by the Syrian government is evil and every reaction by Washington is good. Guilt can be assumed and assigned to Syria without investigation because the antagonist in the story is always guilty and can always be blamed. America is always the innocent observer who is shocked by Syrian brutality and feels compelled to respond to protect the innocent victims and defend the world.

But the story of Syria in not so simple, and history shows that the assignation of guilt should be much more judiciously distributed.

Democracy Versus Dictatorship: It Might Have Been a Democracy

Accounts of Syria’s history always include the 1970 coup because it fits the desired narrative. Air force general Hafez al-Assad, Bashar al-Assad’s father, led a military coup that overthrew the civilian Ba’ath party dictator, Salah Jadid.

But, though that was to be the last coup in Syria’s history up to now, it was by no means the first. The first coup in modern Syrian history took place eleven years earlier. But the narrative was very different.

Syrians under French colonial rule had long longed for democracy. The Sykes-Picot Agreement had given Syria to France in 1916. But, prior to implementation of Sykes-Picot, Syrians had had a brief taste of democracy. The taste was over, though, by 1920 when Syria was officially given to France in the Treaty of Sevres.

President De Gaulle resisted Syrian demands for independence and democracy, but, by 1943, he yielded to the pressure of the Syrians and the British and permitted Syrian elections. Syrians overwhelmingly elected Shukri al-Quwatli and the National Bloc with their message of independence. Three years later, after an anti-demonstration massacre, the French were out of Syria.

With France out and a democratically elected leader in, the U.S. could have nurtured democracy in Syria. Instead, they took it out. American agents Stephen Meade and Miles Copeland assisted the Syrian military in a coup that would take out al-Quwatli and install the pro-American Colonel Adib Shishakli. But for that US coup, Syria may have grown into a democracy instead of the dictatorship it is today.
http://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Snider/2017/05/02/the-syrian-side-of-the-story-you-never-hear/

Cheers
 
Re: Re:

blutto said:
Jagartrott said:
blutto said:
...do note Patrick Cockburn is only an n of 1....though nice to see you wandering off the company estate a bit....
What about his claims in the article, with the background that he *is* very skeptical about Western intervention in Syria? How do you decide what is credible and what is not? This somehow is not?
....ok so we have some claims eh....so why don't we take a close look at them shall we....

....Trump had little option....ok he pointed a finger, stamped his feet, and made a political move that ingratiated him to the company line....was it a cynical ploy ? did he talk himself into a corner where the only option was to put up or shut up or lose face....so far the lean is increasingly toward cynical ploy....read he made a big noise and kicked over a fruit cart, and this after giving the cart owner ample time to remove his fruit to safety....yep chalk that one up to blatantly cynical...

President Donald Trump had little option but to order a missile strike against a Syrian airbase after holding Syria responsible for that poison gas attack on Khan Sheikhoun that killed 80 civilians
.

....and the reasoning behind this attack, because at the time of the attack no real third party proof was available, some worn out cliché line about armies and generals....that dear sir is very thin gruel and frankly proves nothing and says even less save fill some column inches with some well written truthiness....

Those who argue that the Syrian armed forces would not have done anything quite so foolish and against their own interests as to launch the strikes, probably underestimate the extent of the stupidity present in all armies. There is an old Israeli military saying, employed about a number of their commanders, which is apposite and says that the general “was so stupid that even the other generals noticed”.
....and finally a kinda sorta description of the incident that forced Trump's hand....and guess what it is? suspected !, not a slam dunk, but fcuking suspected....yeah now there is a reason to shoot off some missiles, killed some innocents, and maybe start WW3 :rolleyes: ...

Trump said that Tuesday’s suspected chemical gas attack had changed his attitude towards Assad and developments in Syria.
....I come from this article and running it across the conclusions you draw from it thinking you either didn't read the article carefully or you have a real problem with tea leaves or are just looking for some flotsam to backstop a poor projection.....

....here is a little bit of , you know, advice, word is Cockburn long ago ceased being an investigative reporter and is now a company man padding his retirement fund and using his past to give the company line a patina of respectability....so tip your hat to the man because has done some good stuff but that is pretty well history long gone...

....so bottom line, you should stay in the lab where things are fairly straightforward and simple cause the world outside is really complisticated and doesn't reduce itself to mathematical analysis...it is a world defined thru and thru by radical discontinuities, and where 9x5 really does equal 42....

....have a nice day....and btw for your own sake stop trying to become the second coming of dj, one is quite enough thank you...and to continue down this path is just embarrassing...
OK, so Cockburn is now a company man based on 'word', and his story linked to above is untrustworthy. A report that's based on unidentified Syrian eyewitnesses is posted by you as credible. I have no idea on what basis you file things based both times on fairly vague accounts and assumptions in the true or untrue shelves.

By the way: there's no need to belittle me or get personal with me. You don't know me.
 
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
Re: Re:

Jagartrott said:
blutto said:
Jagartrott said:
blutto said:
...do note Patrick Cockburn is only an n of 1....though nice to see you wandering off the company estate a bit....
What about his claims in the article, with the background that he *is* very skeptical about Western intervention in Syria? How do you decide what is credible and what is not? This somehow is not?
....ok so we have some claims eh....so why don't we take a close look at them shall we....

....Trump had little option....ok he pointed a finger, stamped his feet, and made a political move that ingratiated him to the company line....was it a cynical ploy ? did he talk himself into a corner where the only option was to put up or shut up or lose face....so far the lean is increasingly toward cynical ploy....read he made a big noise and kicked over a fruit cart, and this after giving the cart owner ample time to remove his fruit to safety....yep chalk that one up to blatantly cynical...

President Donald Trump had little option but to order a missile strike against a Syrian airbase after holding Syria responsible for that poison gas attack on Khan Sheikhoun that killed 80 civilians
.

....and the reasoning behind this attack, because at the time of the attack no real third party proof was available, some worn out cliché line about armies and generals....that dear sir is very thin gruel and frankly proves nothing and says even less save fill some column inches with some well written truthiness....

Those who argue that the Syrian armed forces would not have done anything quite so foolish and against their own interests as to launch the strikes, probably underestimate the extent of the stupidity present in all armies. There is an old Israeli military saying, employed about a number of their commanders, which is apposite and says that the general “was so stupid that even the other generals noticed”.
....and finally a kinda sorta description of the incident that forced Trump's hand....and guess what it is? suspected !, not a slam dunk, but fcuking suspected....yeah now there is a reason to shoot off some missiles, killed some innocents, and maybe start WW3 :rolleyes: ...

Trump said that Tuesday’s suspected chemical gas attack had changed his attitude towards Assad and developments in Syria.
....I come from this article and running it across the conclusions you draw from it thinking you either didn't read the article carefully or you have a real problem with tea leaves or are just looking for some flotsam to backstop a poor projection.....

....here is a little bit of , you know, advice, word is Cockburn long ago ceased being an investigative reporter and is now a company man padding his retirement fund and using his past to give the company line a patina of respectability....so tip your hat to the man because has done some good stuff but that is pretty well history long gone...

....so bottom line, you should stay in the lab where things are fairly straightforward and simple cause the world outside is really complisticated and doesn't reduce itself to mathematical analysis...it is a world defined thru and thru by radical discontinuities, and where 9x5 really does equal 42....

....have a nice day....and btw for your own sake stop trying to become the second coming of dj, one is quite enough thank you...and to continue down this path is just embarrassing...
OK, so Cockburn is now a company man based on 'word', and his story linked to above is untrustworthy. A report that's based on unidentified Syrian eyewitnesses is posted by you as credible. I have no idea on what basis you file things based both times on fairly vague accounts and assumptions in the true or untrue shelves.

By the way: there's no need to belittle me or get personal with me. You don't know me.
...its not so much untrustworthy as it doesn't say much of anything....I mean did you actually read it....and btw if you have read the last several years of his articles untrustworthy does definitely creep into the analysis of his work...

Cheers
 
Re: Re:

blutto said:
...its not so much untrustworthy as it doesn't say much of anything....I mean did you actually read it....and btw if you have the last several years of his articles untrustworthy does definitely creep into the analysis of his work...
Yes, I've read it.
My argument was that even sources critical to both Western involvement in Syria and reporting on the Syrian crisis (Cockburn wrote the other piece I linked to in December 2016) were inclined to say that Assad's regime was probably responsible for the chemical attack. Even Russia didn't claim the rebels had actually fired off chemical weapons from helicopters or jet fighters. Hence my original assertions.

I've tried to explain how I form my conclusions. You didn't yet say why those vague sources in that article you cited above went onto your 'believable' shelf.
 
Sep 25, 2009
6,983
0
0
in case french isn't your tongue or you can't get a french national television, go to france24 english to watch the debate...fascinating !
 
Re:

Semper Fidelis said:
I wonder when Russian stooges is going to come up in this debate.

stooge
stuːdʒ/Submit
noun
1.
derogatory
a subordinate used by another to do unpleasant routine work.
"party stooges put there to do a job on behalf of central office"
synonyms: underling, minion, lackey, subordinate, assistant; More
2.
a performer whose act involves being the butt of a comedian's jokes.
"the stooge is offstage"
synonyms: butt, foil, straight man
"a comedian's stooge"
verb
verb: stooge; 3rd person present: stooges; past tense: stooged; past participle: stooged; gerund or present participle: stooging
1.
informal
move about aimlessly; drift or cruise.
"she stooged around in the bathroom for a while"
2.
perform a role that involves being the butt of a comedian's jokes.
"his accent became popular through his stooging for comedians"


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stooge
 
Sep 25, 2009
6,983
0
0
Re:

Semper Fidelis said:
I wonder when Russian stooges is going to come up in this debate.
it is bound to come up.

le pen has been accused of taking loans from a Vlad-controlled bank. it will also be very interesting how they will play the 'russia influenced' their french election. it was suggested, but not as much as her majesty :) mutter merkel had done to vlad's face yesterday...
 
Dec 7, 2010
8,307
1
0
Re: Re:

python said:
Semper Fidelis said:
I wonder when Russian stooges is going to come up in this debate.
it is bound to come up.

le pen has been accused of taking loans from a Vlad-controlled bank. it will also be very interesting how they will play the 'russia influenced' their french election. it was suggested, but not as much as her majesty :) mutter merkel had done to vlad's face yesterday...
Yes for sure. This is good stuff.

merkel is something else.
 
Dec 7, 2010
8,307
1
0
Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
Semper Fidelis said:
I wonder when Russian stooges is going to come up in this debate.

stooge
stuːdʒ/Submit
noun
1.
derogatory
a subordinate used by another to do unpleasant routine work.
"party stooges put there to do a job on behalf of central office"
synonyms: underling, minion, lackey, subordinate, assistant; More
2.
a performer whose act involves being the butt of a comedian's jokes.
"the stooge is offstage"
synonyms: butt, foil, straight man
"a comedian's stooge"
verb
verb: stooge; 3rd person present: stooges; past tense: stooged; past participle: stooged; gerund or present participle: stooging
1.
informal
move about aimlessly; drift or cruise.
"she stooged around in the bathroom for a while"
2.
perform a role that involves being the butt of a comedian's jokes.
"his accent became popular through his stooging for comedians"


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stooge
Duly noted fellow stooge. .
 
Dec 7, 2010
8,307
1
0
Is it just me but does the panel on this look more fair and impartial than the typical BS that us merikans are feed for debate moderators.
 
Dec 7, 2010
8,307
1
0
Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
Semper Fidelis said:
Is it just me but does the panel on this look more fair and impartial than the typical BS that us merikans are feed for debate moderators.

I think this particular panel just gets fed info from Vlad the Putster into their ears. Steady as she goes.
STAY the course M8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
 
Sep 25, 2009
6,983
0
0
Re: Re:

Semper Fidelis said:
python said:
Semper Fidelis said:
I wonder when Russian stooges is going to come up in this debate.
it is bound to come up.

le pen has been accused of taking loans from a Vlad-controlled bank. it will also be very interesting how they will play the 'russia influenced' their french election. it was suggested, but not as much as her majesty :) mutter merkel had done to vlad's face yesterday...
Yes for sure. This is good stuff.

merkel is something else.
they just started to talk the international stuff...terrorism etc, so i
will be brief

germany and the mutter are very special to europe/russia in every sense of the word. not only 2 of 3 the most important jobs in the land belong to women (the mutter herself and ursula the minister of defense) - something virtually no american knows - but also that germany is increasingly looked at by many europeans, particularly by those in the eastern europe that should be afraid of germany, as a prospective leader.

i am a very attentive watcher of the french debate b/c germany will have to drop the timid posture if france goes right
 
Dec 7, 2010
8,307
1
0
Re: Re:

python said:
Semper Fidelis said:
python said:
Semper Fidelis said:
I wonder when Russian stooges is going to come up in this debate.
it is bound to come up.

le pen has been accused of taking loans from a Vlad-controlled bank. it will also be very interesting how they will play the 'russia influenced' their french election. it was suggested, but not as much as her majesty :) mutter merkel had done to vlad's face yesterday...
Yes for sure. This is good stuff.

merkel is something else.
they just started to talk the international stuff...terrorism etc, so i
will be brief

germany and the mutter are very special to europe/russia in every sense of the word. not only 2 of 3 the most important jobs in the land belong to women (the mutter herself and ursula the minister of defense) - something virtually no american knows - but also that germany is increasingly looked at by many europeans, particularly by those in the eastern europe that should be afraid of germany, as a prospective leader.

i am a very attentive watcher of the french debate b/c germany will have to drop the timid posture if france goes right
If this goes right then the course will be - something that has not been seen since pre ww2
 
Re: Re:

python said:
Semper Fidelis said:
python said:
Semper Fidelis said:
I wonder when Russian stooges is going to come up in this debate.
it is bound to come up.

le pen has been accused of taking loans from a Vlad-controlled bank. it will also be very interesting how they will play the 'russia influenced' their french election. it was suggested, but not as much as her majesty :) mutter merkel had done to vlad's face yesterday...
Yes for sure. This is good stuff.

merkel is something else.
they just started to talk the international stuff...terrorism etc, so i
will be brief

germany and the mutter are very special to europe/russia in every sense of the word. not only 2 of 3 the most important jobs in the land belong to women (the mutter herself and ursula the minister of defense) - something virtually no american knows - but also that germany is increasingly looked at by many europeans, particularly by those in the eastern europe that should be afraid of germany, as a prospective leader.

i am a very attentive watcher of the french debate b/c germany will have to drop the timid posture if france goes right
If anyone from the CDU was to replace Merkel, it would need to be Horst Seehofer, the Bavarian. Merkel has no charisma, she's handled the refugee crisis very poorly, austerity in the EU is a mess, etc. How she is able to beat out all her opponents within her own party I will never know. Another depressing fact that the opposition parties in Germany are like sloth moving zombies-everything done at a snails pace and no opposition to Merkel.

As far as her trip to Russia is concerned, I have no idea why she bothered going if all she was planning to do was talk about Russia influencing elections.
 
Sep 25, 2009
6,983
0
0
Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
As far as her trip to Russia is concerned, I have no idea why she bothered going if all she was planning to do was talk about Russia influencing elections.
my opinion - pure politics.

both domestic (the election image of a 'pragmatic talking to everyone') plus the upcoming top-20 nations meet in july where they'd have to adopt a unanimous communique. she was feeling the ground and vlad told her off. it is absolutely clear from the german media. her cheappo about the vlad potential hacking was soundly reverberated ...
but the hypocritical german media chose to ignore that less than 2 years ago an amerian intelligence head in germany was send home over the confirmed snowden-released leaks that america spied on germany the ally for years.

such is the murky, merkel attitude...
 
Re:

Jagartrott said:
Macron is so much more knowledgeable. He would have had more trouble with Mélenchon.
That medicine question hurt Le Pen in my eyes and was real blow. Not perhaps for most people but it was embarrassing: she says she will reduce costs, and Macron points out they made by foreign countries and she wants to tax imports. Not a big fan of Macron, but very well played.

Le Pen's main tactic seems to be to attack Macron continuously, which will work up to a point but to win it she'll also have to gain some votes through her own plans. Or perhaps her plan is to make as many Melenchon and Fillon voters abstain as possible
 
Re:

Jagartrott said:
Macron is so much more knowledgeable. He would have had more trouble with Mélenchon.

Macron is literally a Rotschild banker, and he is supposed to be the 'new face' of politics and one that is 'neither right or left?' LMFAO. He is the embodiment of the establishment.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S General 11
Similar threads
2019 Rugby World Cup

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts